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Bodywork advice

  • 31-03-2021 10:33pm
    #1
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭


    I asked this in the DIY and maintenance forum, I think this may be better forum.

    so the replacement wing on my car is awful - terrible fit and the paint aint up to much.
    I found another wing thats not rusty - ( miracle ) and I thought I would have a crack at painting it myself.

    So - having stripped the old paint off, and sanded this with 240, 800 and 1500 grit paper, I have a question.....

    Do I need a primer on this?

    I am thinking its already primed and I can just bust some paint on it and hit it with clear.

    What do the knowledgeable folks of boards make of it ?

    btw - this is still wet and looks much rougher than it is.

    thanks

    548829.jpg

    548830.jpg

    548831.jpg


Comments

  • #2
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    As the saying goes, the finished work is all down to how well prepped it was
    prior to spraying on the finish coats.

    Prep work is the key. What you now have is a partially primered wing, not fully primed.
    By that I mean you have metal showing in some areas, so these are going to need primer.

    So at the moment you are not ready for colour. Primers also come in light colour primers, and
    darker colours. White, grey.

    Putting dark primer on , and then finishing in a lighter colour, means more light colour to cover the dark base,
    if you get my drift.

    I see you mention "paint then hit it with clear"

    This suggests to me that you are going 2 pack. And as this was always isocyanate and needs air fed breathing equipment
    which I dont have.So I stay away from it..

    On that note I will bow out and leave some of the 2pack guys to chime in.

    K

    I see you mention


  • #3
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    It needs to be absolutely pristine before you attempt to paint. There is exposed metal there and pitting around the arch. That all needs to be gone and completely smooth.


  • #4
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    thanks folks - I was hoping to avoid primer as I imagine each coat I add is an opportunity to mess it up.

    What do ye suggest for the pitting ? Sand and fill ? Do i need a rust inhibitor on the spots ?

    I wasnt thinking 2k, I was just going to go with a normal Clear Lacquer - is this not a good solution ?


  • #5
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    But you cant clear lacquer over a panel, unless you have a proper colour base, which at the moment you dont have.

    Basically you need to perfectly finish smooth your panel, treat any rust, primer panel.
    Then color, then lacquer. Or as is the case of cellulose, colourand lacquer in a single coat.
    Then compound and polish when the celly is cured.

    But there is a major difference between celly finish and 2 pack.
    Cellulose is fine for the classic car restorer that wants to keep the original type paint.
    And its easily polished to a high gloss. But it sinks on the finish anywhere you filled, or had uneven paint layers.

    As well as this you need to test your existing finish for compatability with what you intend to use,
    to make sure no problems occur


  • #6
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Loads of info for offline reading out there,



    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=202565
    https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/cellulose-v-2-pack.8198/


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  • #7
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    kadman wrote: »
    But you cant clear lacquer over a panel, unless you have a proper colour base, which at the moment you dont have.

    Basically you need to perfectly finish smooth your panel, treat any rust, primer panel.
    Then color, then lacquer. Or as is the case of cellulose, colourand lacquer in a single coat.
    Then compound and polish when the celly is cured.

    But there is a major difference between celly finish and 2 pack.
    Cellulose is fine for the classic car restorer that wants to keep the original type paint.
    And its easily polished to a high gloss. But it sinks on the finish anywhere you filled, or had uneven paint layers.

    As well as this you need to test your existing finish for compatability with what you intend to use,
    to make sure no problems occur

    My intention was to treat the rust pitting, fill, sand, prime, colour and the clear lacquer (this stuff)

    It is acrylic - no use ?


  • #8
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    As well as this you need to test your existing finish for compatability with what you intend to use,
    to make sure no problems occur

    I have never used acrylic, so i cant comment:)

    Whatever you use, its best to try it in an unseen area for testing with your existing paint.:)


  • #9
    MrCostington
    Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭MrCostington


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    (this stuff)

    Hi, I actually was there getting a can of this during the week! Don't know if you seem my similar thread last weekend, nothing to add as I'm a total newbie myself! One thing though, I did take out a biscuit tin lid and sprayed it with primer, topcoat and clearcoat to practice, and test the colour match.

    Good luck with it.


  • #10
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    MrCostington wrote: »
    Hi, I actually was there getting a can of this during the week! Don't know if you seem my similar thread last weekend, nothing to add as I'm a total newbie myself! One thing though, I did take out a biscuit tin lid and sprayed it with primer, topcoat and clearcoat to practice, and test the colour match.

    Good luck with it.

    Thanks - I saw some of your work already MrCostigan and it looks good in the photos, I am sure you will do well.

    The lad in VinnyByrnes was actually really helpful and spent a bit of time telling me what to do.

    Its currently outside drying with the primer on it. ( and probably picking up dust ! )

    I have the added complication that I am colourblind so I can only hope.......

    I did redo the reg plynth on my MX5 which turned out great - except people tell me its a different colour ! ( the upside of being colour blind is that not to me it isnt ! )


  • #11
    MrCostington
    Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭MrCostington


    Thanks, but unfortunately the pics I posted looks much better than it is, the colour match is off. I did try to blend but my original area of about 1 x10 cm just grew and grew... I got another can made up in Vinny's by taking my petrol cap door off. I did a test as I described but have only looked at it in the underground carpark which is pretty dim. Seems a bit better but still not great. I'll head out soon to have another stab at it.

    Yeah, same story here with Vinny's, one of the guys, Stacey, was very helpful.

    OMG you're colour blind? You should get someone to help you!!

    Have you got a compressor or are you using cans like me?


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  • #12
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    aerosols - I spend hours looking at the compressors in LIDL thinking that will never leave the box, just like the welder I bought. Cans are ok though ( I hope )


  • #13
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Nothing wrong with rattle cans, if thats your weapon of choice.


  • #14
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    so after 3 attempts to get the paint colour right I think they got it reasonably close this time.

    I painted it, lightly wet sanded it, and then clear coated it ( A full cans worth )

    There was a bit of orange peel, so I again wet sanded it to where its smooth.

    But the damn thing aint shinny like the rest of the car !

    Where did I go wrong does anyone know ?

    How do I fix it ?

    TIA

    555372.jpg

    555373.jpg


  • #15
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    If the rest of the car is base coated and then clear top coat, thats why it may be shinier.

    Or if its cellulose, it was well buffed and polished to a high gloss. What is your wing painted with at the moment?


  • #16
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    the wing was taken back to primer, then newly primed, based coated with 2k paint and then top coat is acrylic clear lacquer. There is 500ml of clear on the thing as I struggled with the spray pattern from the can i.e. I could see it coming out of the can but couldnt see it was actually landing on the wing, so I kept going over it with closer passes each time. It ended up with a bit of orange peel on it, but I 1500 wet sanded that back to where its good now, but matt as fook.


  • #17
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman




  • #18
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    I do not use 2k isocyanates because I do not have air fed breathing equipment,
    which is essential for 2k.

    But I do know you will never get a gloss finish from any abrasive paper, especially 1500 grit,
    its not going to happen you will always end up with a flat look from 1500, definitely on cellulose.
    And the fact that 2k basecoats need a gloss clear topcoat for gloss means s good clearcoat is the base for a good gloss finish.

    Which at 1500 grit, you do not have. Even on cellulose i finish with a 3000 grit before I would polish.
    But Like I said, I only use cellulose, so hopefully some 2k guys will chime in.

    Funny enough the same preparations apply even when french polishing wood which I did for many years. Its all in the prep work:)


  • #19
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Thanks for your time and advice Kadman

    so you think a 3000 grit wet sand before I polish it might help ? To my eye, mine looks like the one in the video you posted.

    I am awaiting some electric polishing pads for my drill ( not ideal, but I do not need a proper one )

    Maybe that will help.


  • #20
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    I always wet sand finish with the finest paper available. Which is 3000
    thats available to me.
    I normally work through all the grit sizes from 1200, 1500,2000, 2500 and finish on
    3000. Then polish with a suitable polish, I think its G3. But I am out of the shed now so cant confirm.

    Like I said I had hoped that a 2k and clearcoat aficionado would have chimed in by now.

    Fingers crossed they might still do.


  • #21
    Redriddick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭Redriddick


    I ain't no professional but I have sprayed a few panels, wheels etc before and also a full tractor but that was enamel.
    Tbh I would not have used the acrylic laquer as its not up to the standard or protection of the 2k clear.
    I have used acrylic before and found it was soft and prone to scratches etc.
    You can't beat 2k clear and I have used besa glass on several items including my alloys.
    For what your doing a 2k aerosol would do the job, they are available but once mixed have to be used.
    Again I am not a pro.


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  • #22
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    cheers, is there anywhere to pick this up other than Vinny Byrne - I have a path worn there at the moment and I am not going to get there before they close for the weekend


  • #23
    Redriddick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭Redriddick


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    cheers, is there anywhere to pick this up other than Vinny Byrne - I have a path worn there at the moment and I am not going to get there before they close for the weekend

    I think micksgarage do it too


  • #24
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    my polishing pad arrived yesterday and I happened to be in Mr price where I saw polish for 1.49 ! Being a tight wad I thought feck it I'll give it a go and maybe cancel my order for Meguiars 205 which I dont seem to have a delivery date from Amazon on.

    Anyway, here are the results .....

    555674.jpg

    555675.jpg

    555676.jpg


  • #25
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    the eagle eyed onlookers ( i.e. not blind ) will see the colour is different from the door. And that I figured out is not vinny byrnes fault. In fact it is caused by the petrol cap being a different colour from the door. This wing now matches the rear 1/4 panel with different colour doors in between ! I may have the spray cans out again !


  • #26
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Great shine there now. Well done.

    What polish and polisher did you use after. All part of the learning curve,

    and you clearly (forgive the pun) attended class that day.:)

    Might be an idea for others to outline how you got from the flat panel sanded with 1500 to this
    finished glossy outcome.


  • #27
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    polisher

    Mr Price v expensive polish - not available online its soooo exclusive :-)

    I dont pretend its a great job, but its good enough on a 31 year old hack about.


  • #28
    kadman
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Whats important about classic ownership is driving them above anything else.
    Personally I dont strive to achieve a concourse car for a couple of reasons.

    I neither have the necessary skills, workshop facilities, time and money to reach that goal.

    And I would rather drive a safe respectable car, than spend all my time making a car pristine,
    and then be afraid to drive it.


  • #29
    MrCostington
    Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭MrCostington


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    the eagle eyed onlookers ( i.e. not blind ) will see the colour is different from the door. And that I figured out is not vinny byrnes fault. In fact it is caused by the petrol cap being a different colour from the door. This wing now matches the rear 1/4 panel with different colour doors in between ! I may have the spray cans out again !

    I've been reading this thread with great interest, but nothing to add. Interesting about the colour match, I too took my petrol cap to Vinny's and after much faffing around accepted it's just not the same colour. Again a good match at the back. It's a pity they don't have a hand held scanner, I have seen them on youtube.

    Well done with the results so far, looks good.

    Here is my result https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116772003&postcount=13


  • #30
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    MrCostington wrote: »
    I've been reading this thread with great interest, but nothing to add. Interesting about the colour match, I too took my petrol cap to Vinny's and after much faffing around accepted it's just not the same colour. Again a good match at the back. It's a pity they don't have a hand held scanner, I have seen them on youtube.

    Well done with the results so far, looks good.

    Here is my result https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116772003&postcount=13


    Honestly its impossible to tell there is anything amiss with yours. Like all DIY jobs, possibly only you will notice it being wrong, but you will always notice it being wrong.

    As for my one. It actually looks better in real life than the photos. But the colour match looks worse than in the photos too.

    This car is a work horse daily, so isnt a show pony, but even with a miss matched paint wing I think it looks better now than with the half rolled arch and terrible fit of the non OEM one that was on it.


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  • #31
    mi99
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭mi99


    hello small pitting can easily be filled with a tube of fine fillers which can be got in most motor shops you get a small tube of hardener with the fillers and it can be sanded with wet and dry sanding paper from400 up to 1000 for a good finish best of luck hope you get a good finish.


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