Stallions

tryfix · 05-04-2021 2:01am

Jim Bolger's Heliostatic wasn't quite up there with his full brother Soldier Of Fortune, but he did enough to have a stallion career in France and was among the first Galileo's to have sired a Group 1 winner on the flat. He's seemingly still playing his trade out in Argentina where he had a Grade 1 winner on Saturday. A paltry £13,000 prize money for the race but the Argentine horses often transfer to race in the US.

Argentina is a good hunting ground for 2nd, 3rd, 4th tier stallion sons of Galileo to ply their trade. In Saturday's G1 the 2nd was by John F Kennedy, the 4th by Cima De Triomphe, the 6th was another by Heliostatic and the 7th by Treasure Beach.

All those Stallions have sired at least a Group 1 or Grade 1 winner

tryfix · 06-04-2021 1:13pm

Been noticing that Golden Horn's progeny are improving steadily with age. He has a lot of 100+ rpr runners who should be able to move up a few pounds as 4 year olds which will put them on course to take Listed and G3 contests.

The Australia's too have been holding their own with age, it's a bit too soon to be too sure of whether they're going to get better with age.

tryfix · 06-04-2021 1:53pm

Laurens delivered an Invincible Spirit colt foal which seems to have delighted her owner. Hard to imagine that they got much wrong going for such a good and reasonably priced mating, and they're going down the Invincible Spirit route again by sending her to Kingman for her next cover.

I says · 08-04-2021 6:49pm

tryfix wrote: »

Been noticing that Golden Horn's progeny are improving steadily with age. He has a lot of 100+ rpr runners who should be able to move up a few pounds as 4 year olds which will put them on course to take Listed and G3 contests.

The Australia's too have been holding their own with age, it's a bit too soon to be too sure of whether they're going to get better with age.

Ready made cup horses for down under be hard to get one for jumping at the HIT sales.

Peintre Celebre · 15-04-2021 3:34pm

Was very impressed with Awtaad's two year old last year considering they are not the early types. Jane Chappal Hyam wouldn't have many first time out winners now so it is telling enough that her one today Bellosa went off 3/1 favourite at Newmarket and won by half the straight despite being unbalanced. By Awtaad looks a bargain at 30k euros now

Robson99 · 15-04-2021 6:47pm

Dylan Thomas having a few winners the last month or so with his NH crops. Biggest problem with his was his progeny never seem to be either speed horses or stayers.
Think he is gone from castlehyde now. Was a fine looking horse....just never took off and Danehill seemed to kill him at the NH sales

Sadlers · 15-04-2021 8:37pm

I have bred to Dylan Thomas. Unlike Westerner who proved Danehill can make NH sire or sires he was not promoted by Coolmore once he went NH. He is gone now and apprarently vanished. Bred them quite plain in general but for the low quality mares he got , he had little change - at the fee he stodd at - about 2k he was great value if supported.

Robson99 · 15-04-2021 9:28pm

Sadlers wrote: »

I have bred to Dylan Thomas. Unlike Westerner who proved Danehill can make NH sire or sires he was not promoted by Coolmore once he went NH. He is gone now and apprarently vanished. Bred them quite plain in general but for the low quality mares he got , he had little change - at the fee he stodd at - about 2k he was great value if supported.

Ya they seemed to come big and plain. Pity as he was a good racehorse and I think started off at circa 50k in his first season.
Westerner aside ( and he also breeds them quiet plain and stocky ) Danehill hasn't produced much in the line of NH stallions

tryfix · 16-04-2021 2:26pm

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Was very impressed with Awtaad's two year old last year considering they are not the early types. Jane Chappal Hyam wouldn't have many first time out winners now so it is telling enough that her one today Bellosa went off 3/1 favourite at Newmarket and won by half the straight despite being unbalanced. By Awtaad looks a bargain at 30k euros now

Who can we compare Awtaad to? He started off at €15,000 and is now €10,000. That's the kind of price that would get him plenty of mares if he can produce a few head turners on the track.

At the sales he has had GBP 75,000 and GB 80,000 success's but it would be hard enough to make a profit on him if you had paid €15,000 for his services.

A slow burner maybe. He has had no runners with an rpr of 100 or more. He needs a bit of a star runner at listed and G3 level or a few big handicap winners to emerge.

He's already a bit better than his fellow second season sire The Gurkha who must have set a record for falling from grace. The Gurkha stands at just €5,000 now after starting at €25,000.

Surely the greatest value sire at the moment is Mastercraftsman at €15,000 who is one of the classiest sires about at any price.

The Mig · 22-04-2021 10:20am

Johner, is that your Dylan Thomas horse in the 1st in Kilbeggan today? Is he worth an each way shout?

Johner · 23-04-2021 12:07pm

The Mig wrote: »

Johner, is that your Dylan Thomas horse in the 1st in Kilbeggan today? Is he worth an each way shout?

Don’t think it was, have all mine in the tracker. Missed it though, who was the dam.

The Mig · 23-04-2021 2:23pm

Horse is called Not So Bad Lad. Wattle Bridge is the dam. RP has it as half brother to Kilconny Bridge and Bennys Bridge

Johner · 23-04-2021 7:29pm

The Mig wrote: »

Horse is called Not So Bad Lad. Wattle Bridge is the dam. RP has it as half brother to Kilconny Bridge and Bennys Bridge

Jaysus it is and all. Never even knew that one was named!We sold that one on, wasn’t overly big. Says it was a non runner in the end. What price was it in the morning?

The Mig · 24-04-2021 8:10am

Johner wrote: »

Jaysus it is and all. Never even knew that one was named!We sold that one on, wasn’t overly big. Says it was a non runner in the end. What price was it in the morning?

Was 25s Johner. Had a ew bet on it as I looked and seen bennys bridge and kilconny bridge both won 1st time out. Another one for your tracker :pac:

tryfix · 25-04-2021 3:50pm

The Gurkha's Best Of Lips won yesterday's G3 German 2,000 Guineas and showed that he had trained on since his 2yo days.

For the same sire John Gosden's Rifleman was running a big race in 2nd at Sandown before ditching Ryan Moore. Hopefully The Gurkha's stock are going to improve with age like he did and they also look very well as physical specimens, so maybe his €5,000 fee might look like a bargain by the end of the year.

tryfix · 02-05-2021 2:22pm

Decorated Knight gets his career off the mark today when his very first runner Silver Bullet Lady won a 5f fillies conditions at Salisbury.

Looking forward to seeing the battle for the First Season Sires title this year. There's a pollution of Galileo Stallions with their first runners this year. Churchill, Ulysses, Decorated Knight, Highland Reel and so on. They will all struggle to beat Caravaggio.

tryfix · 02-05-2021 3:26pm

Mare Australis takes the G1 Prix Ganay to give Australia his 3rd individual G1 winner. A Breeder's Cup Mile Winner, a St Leger Winner and a Prix Ganay winner, those are high quality G1 winners so it's not a question of luck. Sir Ron Priestly have him a G2 yesterday and there's Broome and more to come.

Peintre Celebre · 02-05-2021 3:34pm

I just got a few quid on at 50s post race there for the Arc. He was punted massively today and won with a little up his sleeve. He is trained by a master trainer of the race and that price could look very big come October. You'd assume he would be going to Saint Cloud next for the Grand Prix and onto the Foy.

Australias look a lot better as they mature. That one of Johnsons yesterday that won the group 2 looks a massive improver as well. Broome seems to have improved this year as well he runs tomorrow

tryfix · 09-05-2021 12:25pm

This morning's win in Tokyo's G1 NHK mile for the 3yo Kingman colt Schnell Meister demonstrates the greatness of Kingman as a sire and his likely long term career at the very pinnacle of European Breeding.

He is capable of being of the same calibre as Galileo, Dubawi, Sandler's Wells, Montjeu and so on.

His stock progress or hold their form with age a characteristic that is scarce amongst the progeny of his direct rival Frankel. Frankel himself continues to progress as a sire as trainers and breeders now have a better understanding of how to get the best out of him as a stallion.

Robson99 · 12-05-2021 2:47pm

Any opinions on Harzand ?
Appears to be getting a good few NH mares....is he finished as a flat stallion and if so what will be the next move .. relocate to France ?

tryfix · 12-05-2021 10:46pm

Robson99 wrote: »

Any opinions on Harzand ?
Appears to be getting a good few NH mares....is he finished as a flat stallion and if so what will be the next move .. relocate to France ?

It's sad to say that the appearance of his first crop of 2yos last year went by with no comments that I can remember. It's the curse of stamina, yet another Epsom Derby winner is barely noticed as his stock begin to make their way in the world.

His 2yo stats make grim reading, 2/36. So they're going to have to be big improvers as they age if he's going to stay in the Flat or even Dual Purpose game. He's currently standing for €8,000 and that's unsustainable unless his stock light up the racecourses this year.

He's a fine looking stallion, he comes from a quality broodmare and has a decent damside. It's hard to see anything other than a NH career for him in Ireland. I'd say that he could still have a spell in France as a Flat Stallion if his stock haven't disgraced him by the end this year.

Peintre Celebre · 14-05-2021 3:11pm

Gleneagles has had a run of winners in the ast few weeks at stakes level. Awtaad had a very smart looking filly today win a Listed race. Primo Bacio beat two well regarded fillies with her head in her chest despite being slowly away

Peintre Celebre · 14-05-2021 3:14pm

I'd usually say if Obrien is skipping Newmarket and going to France then they're not his first choice. Possibly sending St Marks Basilica to France because he's by Siyouni? The hottest sire around in France if he could win a Poulains he would have plenty of demand there.

tryfix · 14-05-2021 5:02pm

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Gleneagles has had a run of winners in the ast few weeks at stakes level. Awtaad had a very smart looking filly today win a Listed race. Primo Bacio beat two well regarded fillies with her head in her chest despite being slowly away

Thought of you straight away when I heard them saying Premio Bacio was by Awtaad, Sky Lantern behaved like a typical Frankel in that she was hyped and then had no real appetite for the game when things got tough.

Yeah Gleneagles has been flying recently with a few black type winners, hopefully he'll stay going well. His whole package of form and impeccable breeding should have been giving better results last year.

Peintre Celebre · 15-05-2021 9:59pm

Jane Chappel Hyam's Bellosa made it a good two days for Awtaad winning a Listed race today in good style. She made all in the centre of the track and travelled well and probably won a lot more convincing than the two lengths margin, tiring and running across the track but always in command. She beat some colts today and looks a tidy filly who is now 2/2.

Awtaad's not doing much at two wouldn't put me off. He won a handicap in April of his 3 year old career and his sire Cape Cross was a group one winner as an older horse. It could be a good year for him.

Peintre Celebre · 16-05-2021 9:45pm

Another big win for the outstanding Siyouni who is fast making a name for himself as one of the hottest sires in Europe. St Marks Basilica won well today and Obrien seemed keen to keep him to France mentioning the Derby next (10 furlongs). He was well on top today and I would love to see him take on Palace Pier in the Marois. The runner up and third male the form questionable but he won well and its not his fault the Guineas winner flopped. Sealiway was the highest rated French two year old last year and he was well held in behind.

Siyouni is now standing at 140k, not bad for a horse that stood his first four seasons at 7k. He's done it the hard way, he must be top class

Peintre Celebre · 25-05-2021 9:42pm

Another gr. 1 winner for Wootton Bassett in the Prix Saint alary the other day. Amazing that no British or Irish runners went for it it was truly a woeful field.

tryfix · 06-06-2021 5:54pm

It's been a blue blooded weekend with more than a hint of an end to an era at the top of the Stallion tree.

Galileo was out of luck in all the Classics so far bar the Irish 1,000 where he had a 1,2. The old man is getting close to pension age and his offspring are outdoing him more often than not

With St Mark's Basilica ( Siyouni X Cabaret (Galileo ) taking the French Derby with ease there was confirmation that the sire Siyouni can provide Coolmore with middle-distance champs and if he can do it for them then so can many other classy sires. They can't rely on Galileo to go on forever so they will have to plan ahead.

They have their US Triple Crown winners American Pharaoh and Justify to mine as well as War Front but so far there's nothing approaching the reliability of Galileo about those worthy beasts.

Frankel will be sniffing at Galileo's Sires title this year thanks to his Derby 1,3.

So far Coolmore themselves have failed to exploit the Galileo Sire line with only Australia hinting at been top class at stud. Gleneagles has become solid but unspectacular which is a huge disappointment. Ruler Of The World was never even given a chance. All that Derby winning talent of the Coolmore Galileos hasn't been cultivated into a ready replacement for the old man.

Outside of Coolmore Teofilo, New Approach and Frankel have been racking up the G1 winners for the Galileo line while Coolmore themselves have been experimenting with outcross stallions for their mighty band of Galileo broodmares.

Where is Coolmore's Stallion Championship dominance going to be once Galileo stops production? In the past they had tag teams, with Sadler's Wells/Caerlon/Montjeu/Danehill/Danehill Dancer/Galileo. Now they have Galileo and others. Noticing else there has had even a sniff at challenging for a Sires Championship.

Caravaggio is promising but he's also gone to the USA, I doubt we will see him back in Tipperary.

Churchill had a decent 2yo winner today, there are plenty of signs that his are going to be less speedy than himself which might be an indication that they can come into their own as classic contesting 3yos.

Also with the now deceased Deep Impact combining with a Galileo mare to give Coolmore a second Classic win for the cross when Snowfall destroyed her Oaks field, where does the very successful Coolmore/Japan stud relationship stand? The results have been phenomenal.

tryfix · 15-06-2021 9:15am

A big day today for Churchill, he has 2 decent colts ( The Acropolis and Golden War ) in a very hot looking Coventry. If he can land this he's going to be a good stallion, it's likely that a place is the best they could hope for. Churchill never won at 6f himself and was only ever tried at the distance on his debut.

tryfix · 16-06-2021 7:24am

tryfix wrote: »

A big day today for Churchill, he has 2 decent colts ( The Acropolis and Golden War ) in a very hot looking Coventry. If he can land this he's going to be a good stallion, it's likely that a place is the best they could hope for. Churchill never won at 6f himself and was only ever tried at the distance on his debut.

Well that was a bust. They finished 9th and 16th out of 17. There were mitigating circumstances for The Acropolis, he was the youngest in the field and he showed plenty of speed until he jinked to the left when asked for his effort. It was all happening too quickly for him, time will tell if he will improve. Don't think Churchill is going to be a speed stallion in any way.

Stallions

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