Browning A5

Paddy Mc Ginn · 12-05-2021 10:26pm #1

My father died a couple of years ago and I inherited a 1960s Browning A5 Shotgun. My Brother already had a gun at the time so I told him he could keep it for a few years until I was ready to take it. He then got it licensed by the Gardai and moved ownership to himself. I recently found out that this gun is capable of holding 5 rounds instead of 3. The problem is that my father brought it home from America in the 60s and he got it licensed. My brother got a licence for it no problem but it appears that the licence is unrestricted.
On the licence it says it’s a gun from ‘Browning’ and is single barrelled. The Gardai have seen the gun as it was put into the station when he died. I am taking this gun from my brother when I get my licence as I have just completed a competency course and all I need now is to turn in my licence application. Do I need to get this gun plugged to 3 rounds since my father and brother didn’t need to? I asked my brother but he seems to have had no problem getting it and he apparently doesn’t have a restricted licence. Thanks.

cookimonster · 12-05-2021 11:10pm

I draw your attention to section (b) of the extract from the Firearms Order. The terms 'manufactured, adapted or modified' doesn't have to be a permanent fix. The idea is that the particular firearm is not capable of taking more then three round max at anyone time. Most unrestricted shot guns either pump or semi auto can only hold two cartridges in the tube and one in battery.
My previous pump action was restricted (confusing, eh!!!) to maximum 3 cartridges by the inclusion of a coat hanger wire of sufficient lenght and shape into the tube to prevent the loading of more than 2 cartridges. My current semi auto has a removable plastic plug that limits the tube to max of two cartridges, while my mates semi auto has the tube crimped to permanently prevent any extra cartridges. All three incarnations from the DIY option, the table top convertible or the permanent factory design are all perfectly legal and meet the rigors of the SI.

Just to reinforce, it must be a physical restriction and not a good will or faith gesture, ie 'I promise not to put more than 3 cartridges into it'.

FIREARMS (RESTRICTED FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION) ORDER 2008

4. (1) Firearms other than those to which subparagraph (2) relates are declared to be restricted firearms for the purposes of the Act:

(2) This subparagraph relates to the following firearms:
(a) single-shot or repeating short firearms capable of discharging only blank ammunition;

(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges,

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/21/made/en/print

Paddy Mc Ginn · 12-05-2021 11:52pm

cookimonster wrote: »

I draw your attention to section (b) of the extract from the Firearms Order. The terms 'manufactured, adapted or modified' doesn't have to be a permanent fix. The idea is that the particular firearm is not capable of taking more then three round max at anyone time. Most unrestricted shot guns either pump or semi auto can only hold two cartridges in the tube and one in battery.
My previous pump action was restricted (confusing, eh!!!) to maximum 3 cartridges by the inclusion of a coat hanger wire of sufficient lenght and shape into the tube to prevent the loading of more than 2 cartridges. My current semi auto has a removable plastic plug that limits the tube to max of two cartridges, while my mates semi auto has the tube crimped to permanently prevent any extra cartridges. All three incarnations from the DIY option, the table top convertible or the permanent factory design are all perfectly legal and meet the rigors of the SI.

Just to reinforce, it must be a physical restriction and not a good will or faith gesture, ie 'I promise not to put more than 3 cartridges into it'.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/21/made/en/print

The Gun has been here in this country since the 1960s. Does this not mean it is not restricted or unrestricted as it was registered on the system and has a serial number meaning that it’s just a ‘firearm’? This is so confusing because they said nothing to my Dad and brother and they knew well it was a 5 round. It just says on my brother’s current licence that it’s a single barrelled shotgun and it’s made by ‘Browning’

JP22 · 13-05-2021 12:02am

I was in the same boat with my last shotgun, Remington 1187 Premier SA, it had plastic plugs of different size's which reduced mag capacity.

Its long sold now but when I bought it many mang years ago I just licenced it as normal and it was under a standard licence.

If memory serves me right, a permanent fix (mag tube crimped) is a legal requirement in the UK.

A quick google shows plugs are available, at least in the US.

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/browning-auto-5/magazine-plug.html
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1005438739

cookimonster · 13-05-2021 12:14am

Firstly read the SI its dated 2008. So if the gun came in to the country in the 60's and no SI or legislation was in place referring to the capacity of shotguns then there was no problems.

But the SI is now in place and the gun must conform to it.

You have two options -

License it as a restricted shotgun, not impossible, but you have to jump through a few more hoops to do so. More importantly, you cannot hunt with a restricted shotgun (cartridge capacity wise) as per the Wildlife Act.

Licence the shotgun as per normal and either buy a suitable tube plug or stick a lenght of dowl down the tube to restrict the capacity.
To be honest your looking into it too much. The SI changed while I owned one of my guns but the restrictions for hunting was always there. My advice is to license the gun as per normal and plug the tube.

Examples of plugs - shop bought / DIY-

JP22 · 13-05-2021 12:17am

Cookiemonster is on the ball, he explained it better than I did.:)

deeksofdoom · 13-05-2021 9:34am

Paddy Mc Ginn wrote: »

My father died a couple of years ago and I inherited a 1960s Browning A5 Shotgun. My Brother already had a gun at the time so I told him he could keep it for a few years until I was ready to take it. He then got it licensed by the Gardai and moved ownership to himself. I recently found out that this gun is capable of holding 5 rounds instead of 3. The problem is that my father brought it home from America in the 60s and he got it licensed. My brother got a licence for it no problem but it appears that the licence is unrestricted.
On the licence it says it’s a gun from ‘Browning’ and is single barrelled. The Gardai have seen the gun as it was put into the station when he died. I am taking this gun from my brother when I get my licence as I have just completed a competency course and all I need now is to turn in my licence application. Do I need to get this gun plugged to 3 rounds since my father and brother didn’t need to? I asked my brother but he seems to have had no problem getting it and he apparently doesn’t have a restricted licence. Thanks.

Its like this all his gun needs is a a piece of timber shoved down the magazine tube and a bit of araldite to hold it in place.

A friend of mine bought a secondhand practically new semi automatic browning maxus 10 years ago that the previous owner had drilled out the plug from the top of the mag tube so that it was capable to accept the 5 rounds.

He rang around a few dealers to get a new one but to no avail, what they advised him was just glue it back in.... so what was left of the original plug which was still with the gun and shoved it back down the magazine tube and is held in place with Araldite Repair Putty (mighty stuff), the gun is now perfectly legal again.

Say nothing about the gun and just make the fix.

tudderone · 13-05-2021 9:38am

I've seen a bit of brush handle, or wooden dowel used. Only costs a euro or two.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Browning A5

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