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Annual cost of ownership

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  • 29-04-2021 10:51am
    #1
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,195 ✭✭✭✭


    Maybe I'm being nosey, but if so just ignore.

    I've been doing the man math again regarding changing car and just trying to figure out the costs of each option.

    What would you say your total annual cost of ownership is? Depreciation, fuel costs if in a REx, tax, servicing, insurance, finance costs if applicable etc.

    How do you calculate it and what are people spending to keep themselves on the road these days? I even considered the cost of bailing out back to a petrol car but then straight away my fuel and servicing costs go through the roof, plus depreciation would increase due to the pending petrol/diesel bans so it's a false economy.


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    #2
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,358 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Here's for my Tesla anyway.

    Cost: €44500 (42000 + 2500 VRT)
    KMS covered: 45000 (* this would ahve been double but for covid)
    Tax: 240
    Period of ownership: 18 months
    Insurance (same as other cars so have discounted this)
    Finance costs: Approx €1500
    Fuel: This is a tough one, most of my fuel was from work for free
    Sale price: €38000

    (44500+240+1500-38000) gives €8,000 cost to do 45,000 kms over 18 months in a premium segment car that I took a lower price to sell for a quick sale, and got at a very very good price from the UK.


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    #3
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    How do you calculate it and what are people spending to keep themselves on the road these days?.

    I calculate it by taking my annual expenses + depreciation and ignoring it.
    My mileage is paid for at home charging + some free top ups during the weekly shop, and i've a meter on my charger so I've a rough idea (average night rate price for the year) what it's costing me a year. Looks like 1000kWh in the last 1 year.

    Over 1 year:
    Fuel €60
    Tax €120
    Insurance (no change vs ICE so ignoring)
    Maintenance: €400 (service, new 12V battery, 2 tyres)
    Finance: €0

    €580 to run the car over the last year of covid, ex. insurance.. Tyres obviously aren't an annual expense.

    Over 2 years:
    Fuel: €190 (this includes 6-8 months of free public charging before fees came in, and about €60 of public charging)
    Tax: €240
    Maintenance: €400 (No expenses in the first year)
    Finance: €0

    €830 to run the car for 2 years, ex. insurance.


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    #4
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    We changed to an e niro from a 161 2L Diesel Auto Sportage. Had been keeping an eye on things

    tax about 200 odd euro cheaper, insurance, A little bit less but not much
    First service cost about 100 euro or so, last service on the Sportage was about 350

    It done 45mpg, 5.22l/100km.

    Have the Eniro about 13 months now and have done 27k km (at least),
    Car says we are averaging about 18kwh/100km -

    4860 kwh used, lets round that up to 5000 to take charging losses into account.
    havent paid for any public charging, only fast charged twice i think...
    My night rate is 7.4c/kwh - thats, 370 euro.

    Old car, Diesel is about 1.30? - running the numbers, 1409.4L of diesel, - €1832.22.

    Net fuel saving of €1462.

    Was able to get the car charger in for not much more than the grant. but once thats in, its in.

    Depreciation, on EV's arent near as bad as ICE cars. I do intend on keeping the E niro for 4-5 yrs.

    As its the other half that does most of the km's a car that is reliable and just works is v important.


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    #5
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,819 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I've a calculator for this, I'll see if I can dig up the link later

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #6
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,195 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    ELM327 wrote: »
    €8,000 cost to do 45,000 kms over 18 months in a premium segment car that I took a lower price to sell for a quick sale, and got at a very very good price from the UK.

    Cheers, that's the kind of calculations I'm after.

    I was doing the math on an ID3 and figured that it would cost me around €4.5 to €5k a year all in. Seemed like a lot of money, but when compared to keeping the i3 which would depreciate a few grand a year, has €50 a year extra in tax, probably about €80 a year in REx petrol, and there's the potential bomb of an out of warranty electric BMW, suddenly it doesn't feel so bad.


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    #7
    sumo12
    Registered Users Posts: 584 ✭✭✭sumo12


    graememk wrote: »
    Depreciation, on EV's arent near as bad as ICE cars. I do intend on keeping the E niro for 4-5 yrs.

    I'm interested in this comment. Maybe the tide is starting to turn on this but previous anecdotal observation is that values of second hand EV's dropped like a stone. Leaf's depreciated heavily and quickly.

    My Kia dealer actually talked me into another Sportage rather than an Eniro because he said he knew the value of the Sportage in 2 or 3 years but the Eniro could be anything

    Like I said, maybe this is changing because the EV tide is changing.


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    #8
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,358 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Actually I forgot the 6k maintenance that I spent. So it's actually €14k


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    #9
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,358 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    sumo12 wrote: »
    I'm interested in this comment. Maybe the tide is starting to turn on this but previous anecdotal observation is that values of second hand EV's dropped like a stone. Leaf's depreciated heavily and quickly.

    My Kia dealer actually talked me into another Sportage rather than an Eniro because he said he knew the value of the Sportage in 2 or 3 years but the Eniro could be anything

    Like I said, maybe this is changing because the EV tide is changing.


    I sold my ioniq after 50k km with 0 depreciation. Another forum regular made a profit!


    I sold my leaf and a year later the buyer sold it at a profit!


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    #10
    Sabre Man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭Sabre Man


    Costs over 3 years for a Model S



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    #11
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    sumo12 wrote: »
    I'm interested in this comment. Maybe the tide is starting to turn on this but previous anecdotal observation is that values of second hand EV's dropped like a stone. Leaf's depreciated heavily and quickly.

    My Kia dealer actually talked me into another Sportage rather than an Eniro because he said he knew the value of the Sportage in 2 or 3 years but the Eniro could be anything

    Like I said, maybe this is changing because the EV tide is changing.

    Your dealer knows how much a 2-3 yr old sportage is worth now. Will it be the same in 2-3 yrs? Probably.

    A 2 yr old e niro, with the small screen (although in excellent condition) sold almost straight away for 34k.

    I was comparing an Auto Sportage to the E niro, Sportage was a bit cheaper but not by much.

    Quick look on donedeal, a 2019 automatic sportage, are listed for 25-29k.


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    #12
    kanuseeme
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    2011 bought SsangYong actyon sports 2008 for 7000 euro, sold 4 years later for 4000, tax was 710 euro, mpg c. 35

    2015 Dec. bought 2010 Honda insight jap import. for 9000 euro, sold for 6000 euro 1 year later, plus cheque for 3000 euro for accident damage, tax 190 mpg around 50

    2016 bought a 142 Lexus ct 15000 euro from the UK, sold 2.5 years later for 14500 euro, tax 180 euro, mpg 50-60

    2019 bought a 151 Mitsubishi outlander from the UK 18000 euro, 2 years later I hope to sell for 15000, tax 170, done 29000 km, I have for certain 15000km in EV mode, possibly add another 5000 km before I got the obd ii reader. 102 euro for ecars since fee's came in, about 900 euro petrol, 20kWh /100 km mostly night time and when needed day rate. Hybrid mode 7 l/100km or 40 mpg.

    Best I done was my first car for 1000 pounds, had it 3 years and got the scrappage on it, when scrappage was a real thing, not some sales crap.

    3 years after that spent 5000 pounds to buy new again.

    My best advice is buy 2nd hand with warranty and sell with some warranty left or buy cheap and dont give a toss.


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    #13
    alan partridge aha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    Looking at an e golf 2018 €23k, are these any good and if I sell on in 2 years will it plummet in value.


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    #14
    Buddy Bubs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Interesting little exercise even just for my own knowledge.

    22,000 purchase price on a 2014 audi a6 in late 2018. 60000 kms on it when bought. 100000 kms on it now.
    30 months later I have been offered up to 20k on a brand new car although this includes discount so I think realistically it's a 15k car so depreciation has been 7k over 40000kms.
    I have been offered 15k against a newer used car so thats the figure I'll settle on.

    40000kms of fuel has cost me about 3500 euro going by figure of 7 litres per 100kms which is average on trip computer, wouldn't be far off based on my own calculations either.

    Insurance is 450 to 500 a year so let's call 30 months 1250 euro

    New set of tyres 500 euro
    2 services 500 euro. No other repairs needed.
    Tax 700 for 2.5 years
    1 nct at 55 euro

    Car bought outright, no finance so no interest.

    So overall I think 30 months or 2.5 years has cost me 13,500 euro or about 30 to 35c per km driven.


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    #15
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    graememk wrote: »

    It done 45mpg, 5.22l/100km.


    Old car, Diesel is about 1.30? - running the numbers, 1409.4L of diesel, - €1832.22.

    I forgot google gave me the US gallon as default.. So
    45 mpg (imperial) is 6.2l/100km which gives a fuel cost of 2176 vs 370 for the EV.


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    #16
    sh81722
    Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭sh81722


    Nissan LEAF 40 over past 3 years/70k bought on HP on 60 month term with an unfavourable interest rate:

    Payments: 21k
    Electricity (home): Approx 950
    Ecars: Estimated 100 usage 2019-2021
    Servicing: 410
    Tyres: 550
    Wipers: 30
    Washer fluid: 100?
    Tax+insurance: 1500

    Total: 24.5k approx so 8.2k per calendar year. The car would currently be worth about 17k private sale I reckon and the balance of the loan is 12k which means in effect you could, in theory, deduct 1.6k per year. But in practice this is what it costs and in effect any surplus will move in the next finance deal. As expected a new LEAF costs about the same as an used Tesla Model S but with no expected surprise bills on the horizon.

    If we decide to keep the car forever from year 5 onward the yearly expected cost to run will be:

    Elec: 350
    Servicing+repairs: 200 (DIY)
    eCars: 50
    Washer fluid+wipers: 35+10
    Tyres: 200 per year
    Tax and insurance: 500

    1350 per annum.

    So what do learn from this: The cheapest car on planet to run is a used LEAF or another EV that does your expected daily mileage on nightsaver electricity. The most expensive car to run on the other hand is a new LEAF bought on a bad finance deal.


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    #17
    traco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭traco


    I can't add much to this but I wanted to say thanks to all that have taken the time to contribute to the thread especially those that worked out the per km cost as lets face it that is the all important number.

    I am probably a 40-50k km per year ICE driver and have decided to hold off on upgrading as I think my next daily should be EV. The real world figures will be a big help when I do make the change so all the above info is great to see. I would need fast charging as can have very random long trips to customers so my used EV choice will be a limmited for a few years yet until there are more used fast charging options to pick from.

    Thanks again.


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    #18
    Patser
    Registered Users Posts: 7,871 ✭✭✭Patser


    Ok lets see.

    Cost of car - 3 years ago €17.500
    Tax - €120 x 3 = €360
    Fuel - €40 month x 36 = €1440
    Insurance - abour €350/annum €1.050
    Tyres, Wipers etc = €600
    Service = €400 Had 1st one free, due to previous owner buying a pack but BMW still charge a lot to look at a car


    So Total over 3 years €21.350

    Car would probably sell still for €14,000 (bought as import when sterling v lo, and EVs still unpopular)

    So roughly €7,000 spend over 3 years, €2.300 a year. That'll do



    Edit: Just for full picture. Car is used for my daily commute of roughly 80km each way, and for all my local enough trips (maybe 14,000km a year). We have a 2nd ICE car for longer trips like holidays etc, but I will always choose mine when it's an option.


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    #19
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,819 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    For anyone interested I've a spreadsheet for comparing the cost of an EV versus an ICE car, I posted it in another thread

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058147000

    It doesn't handle depreciation but other running costs are there (fuel/electricity, insurance, tax, etc.)

    The doc is public so you can download and edit as you see fit, let me know if you have access issues

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #20
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Over 2 years:

    purchase price €24120
    cost to bring in (travel costs, plates, VRT) €350
    sales price -€30000
    tax €240
    insurance €1700
    maintenance (incl CCS conversion, mats, dog rack, NCT, phone chargers, usb stick) €900
    Fuel €500
    Tolls €300

    Total: -1890

    Total cost of ownership per month: -€79


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    #21
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,797 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    unkel wrote: »
    Over 2 years:

    purchase price €24120
    cost to bring in (travel costs, plates, VRT) €350
    sales price -€30000
    tax €240
    insurance €1700
    maintenance (incl CCS conversion, mats, dog rack, NCT, phone chargers, usb stick) €900
    Fuel €500
    Tolls €300

    Total: -1890

    Total cost of ownership per month: -€79

    Did you sell your tesla?


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    #22
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    TitianGerm wrote: »
    Did you sell your tesla?

    No. Above is my estimated total cost of ownership per month if I sell next year when I have the car 2 years


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    #23
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,797 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    unkel wrote: »
    No. Above is my estimated total cost of ownership per month if I sell next year when I have the car 2 years

    You'd be better giving your actual cost of ownership to date not a hypothetical future one.

    You never know what could happen tomorrow, car could be stolen or you could be knocked down by a bus and it's not really what the OP asked for?


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    #24
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    TitianGerm wrote: »
    You'd be better giving your actual cost of ownership to date not a hypothetical future one.

    You never know what could happen tomorrow, car could be stolen or you could be knocked down by a bus and it's not really what the OP asked for?

    Eh? The car has comprehensive insurance. And we could all be knocked down by a bus tomorrow. What's that got to do with the price of turnips? ;)

    Also the OP never said it can only be about cars you owned in the past but have long sold. But maybe you would like to see my actual cost to date of my current car, should I sell it today? If so:

    purchase price €24120
    cost to bring in €350
    sales price €-34000
    tax €120
    insurance €1200
    maintenance (incl CCS conversion, mats, dog rack, NCT, phone chargers, usb stick) €600
    Fuel €250
    Tolls €150


    Total cost of ownership: -€7210

    Total cost of ownership per month: -€515


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    #25
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,819 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    TitianGerm wrote: »
    You'd be better giving your actual cost of ownership to date not a hypothetical future one.

    You never know what could happen tomorrow, car could be stolen or you could be knocked down by a bus and it's not really what the OP asked for?

    Unkel does have an annoying habit of selling cars for a profit. Remind me never to sell anything to him :)

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #26
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    the_amazing_raisin wrote: »
    Unkel does have an annoying habit of selling cars for a profit. Remind me never to sell anything to him :)

    Started in the recession really. We really needed a second family car sometimes as we were fighting over the one we had. But my budget to own one was zero. Got myself a banger that turned out to have about zero total cost of ownership over a year or so, so that got the ball rolling, it's been a bit of a challenge ever since :D

    Tesla was mostly luck though. Can't take any credit for that. Didn't even spot the car for sale myself.


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    #27
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Here's my last car, a Hyundai Ioniq EV I bought brand new, kept it for 3 years:

    purchase price €25400
    home chargepoint €70
    sales price -€19500
    tax €360
    insurance €1200
    maintenance (incl extra 15m cable, boot mat, parking fines, tyres, valets) €620
    Fuel €150
    Tolls €200


    total cost of ownership €8500

    total cost of ownership per month €236


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    #28
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    sumo12 wrote: »
    I'm interested in this comment. Maybe the tide is starting to turn on this but previous anecdotal observation is that values of second hand EV's dropped like a stone. Leaf's depreciated heavily and quickly.

    The only EV that ever depreciated quickly was the original Leaf. And only in the first few years. As there wasn't really any second hand market for the car.

    If you bought a Leaf second hand in around 2016/2017 though, it would have gone up considerably in value over the next year or two. There are posters in here who bought a Leaf for €9k, kept it for 2 years and then sold it for €11k

    Pretty much all other EVs have had very low depreciation compared to petrol / diesel cars


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