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Logbook

  • 01-05-2021 9:41am
    #1
    hearsay
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭


    does any one know if the change of ownership /log book is a legal document? i sold a car and the buyer signed the car up in his girlfriends name instead of his own, would this be enough to get the change of ownership revoked ? the fact that she wasn't present when purchasing the car?

    I want to give him the money back and take back my car


Comments

  • #2
    TheQ_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭TheQ_Man


    hearsay wrote: »
    does any one know if the change of ownership /log book is a legal document? i sold a car and the buyer signed the car up in his girlfriends name instead of his own, would this be enough to get the change of ownership revoked ? the fact that she wasn't present when purchasing the car?

    I want to give him the money back and take back my car

    Once the change of ownership is completed she’s the legal registered owner. All of my vehicles are in my Mrs name even though she has never once been present when I buy them.

    Note:

    It’s not your car anymore.

    You could get the ownership revoked if there was a criminal element to it. That’s a garda matter.


  • #3
    barneygumble99
    Registered Users Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭barneygumble99


    hearsay wrote: »
    does any one know if the change of ownership /log book is a legal document? i sold a car and the buyer signed the car up in his girlfriends name instead of his own, would this be enough to get the change of ownership revoked ? the fact that she wasn't present when purchasing the car?

    I want to give him the money back and take back my car


    Just out of curiosity, why do you care whose name it goes into?


  • #4
    TheQ_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭TheQ_Man


    barneygumble99 wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, why do you care whose name it goes into?

    I don’t get that either. Sellers/dealers have never questioned why it wasn’t going into my name.


  • #5
    gerard2210
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭gerard2210


    barneygumble99 wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, why do you care whose name it goes into?

    I buy the cars for myself and the missus, if I'm buying for the missus I put her name on the log book. I don't see an issue here.


  • #6
    hearsay
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭hearsay


    barneygumble99 wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, why do you care whose name it goes into?

    he promised to pay me the balance of 1000 in a few weeks and now he is not returning my calls

    I was thinking if she wasn't present for signature then maybe i could have a chance of getting it back, or at least use that as an angle to get him to pay

    The buyer lives in my neighbourhood and i took it upon his word he would fix me up.


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  • #7
    TheQ_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭TheQ_Man


    hearsay wrote: »
    he promised to pay me the balance of 1000 in a few weeks and now he is not returning my calls

    I was thinking if she wasn't present for signature then maybe i could have a chance of getting it back, or at least use that as an angle to get him to pay

    The buyer lives in my neighbourhood and i took it upon his word he would fix me up.

    You’ve been duped out of money then. You should have stated this as the reason in your OP.

    Sales in the private sphere usually have no come back, you could always try the small claims court or get legal advice on it though, which can’t be given here.


  • #8
    barneygumble99
    Registered Users Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭barneygumble99


    hearsay wrote: »
    he promised to pay me the balance of 1000 in a few weeks and now he is not returning my calls

    I was thinking if she wasn't present for signature then maybe i could have a chance of getting it back, or at least use that as an angle to get him to pay

    The buyer lives in my neighbourhood and i took it upon his word he would fix me up.


    Oh dear. Bit of a mess then. I don’t know about the legal side of the signature tbh. Have you any evidence even by text, of the agreed purchase price and how much he was paying up front and then later. Or was it all verbal?


  • #9
    Foweva Awone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Foweva Awone


    It's an expensive lesson to learn ... Why would you EVER offer someone free credit like that. Too many chancers out there only too happy to take advantage of someone's kindness unfortunately. :(


  • #10
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Would that not constitute the logbook/car as being stolen?

    Pay X price for something. Person goes away without paying X price. That's the basis of theft isint it?

    OP, go to Gardai and see what their advice is.


  • #11
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,948 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    TheQ_Man wrote: »
    ...you could always try the small claims court .
    They don't deal with unpaid debts.
    antodeco wrote: »
    ...Pay X price for something. Person goes away without paying X price. That's the basis of theft isint it?

    OP, go to Gardai and see what their advice is.
    No, it wouldn't be theft and the Gardai wouldn't be interested. It's a civil matter.


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  • #12
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,103 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    hearsay wrote: »
    he promised to pay me the balance of 1000 in a few weeks and now he is not returning my calls

    I was thinking if she wasn't present for signature then maybe i could have a chance of getting it back, or at least use that as an angle to get him to pay

    The buyer lives in my neighbourhood and i took it upon his word he would fix me up.

    Oh dude.. you have been hoodwinked.

    You are probably better off calling round with some big burly mates to have a conversation with them.


  • #13
    User1998
    Registered Users Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭User1998


    Foolish mistake. Call the Gardai and explain the situation and they might let you report it as stolen


  • #14
    Jimmy Bottlehead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭Jimmy Bottlehead


    Unfortunately OP, it's likely you're going to have to eat this one.

    Silly, silly mistake, but one you almost certainly won't make again.

    You don't truly know people until there's money involved.


  • #15
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    I get your thinking but it's incorrect.

    The logbook its self is not a contract its an ownership document therefore it makes no difference who's name he signs.
    E.g I can purchase a car for my gf and put it in her name straight away without her knowledge.

    The small claims court must have some form of business/commercial element to it (barring minor property damage). This does not fall within the remit of the small claims court because it is a consumer to consumer sale.

    You would need proof that the buyer agreed to pay €1000 at a later date. Even then you'd have to prove they intended to defraud you before the guards would treat it as a criminal matter and not a civil one.

    It's your word versus his, without proof complaining to the guards will be fruitless.

    Ultimately and unfortunately for you op an expensive lesson.
    For very obvious reasons there is not a avenue for one side to revoke the transfer of ownership process once its been submitted.


  • #16
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,855 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    User1998 wrote: »
    Foolish mistake. Call the Gardai and explain the situation and they might let you report it as stolen

    It's not stolen as the OP handed over the keys. It's a non fulfilment of contract which is a civil matter and in this country you have very few options to enforce it. Its an expensive lesson.

    Never hand over an item till you have all the money, if. It's cash use a currency pen or lodge directly in the bank. If draft make sure that it's cleared. Cheque same as draft but don't think its cleared when you see it in your account, it needs to be cleared by the issuing bank which can take a week or more.


  • #17
    FrankC21
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭FrankC21


    When I bought the jazz privately for my wife, she was not present, I'm the one who filled the details and signed no trouble at all got the new logbook after 2 weeks.

    But for the €1000 balance, maybe the guy is waiting for his payday or something, just give it a few days. You should have like a written contract or cut the car in half and then gave him the other..sorry i just have to get it out.


  • #18
    FrankC21
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭FrankC21


    hearsay wrote: »
    does any one know if the change of ownership /log book is a legal document? i sold a car and the buyer signed the car up in his girlfriends name instead of his own, would this be enough to get the change of ownership revoked ? the fact that she wasn't present when purchasing the car?

    I want to give him the money back and take back my car

    What car was it if you don't mind me asking?


  • #19
    Whocare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Whocare


    hearsay wrote: »
    he promised to pay me the balance of 1000 in a few weeks and now he is not returning my calls

    I was thinking if she wasn't present for signature then maybe i could have a chance of getting it back, or at least use that as an angle to get him to pay

    The buyer lives in my neighbourhood and i took it upon his word he would fix me up.
    You must be still wet behind ears . you need to realise people are asshole when it comes to money complete liars most you can do now is report it stolen as you didn't get paid for it


  • #20
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Whocare wrote: »
    You must be still wet behind ears . you need to realise people are asshole when it comes to money complete liars most you can do now is report it stolen as you didn't get paid for it

    He did bar €1000 so at worst he recieved partial payment he also handed over the keys and signed the book, he can't claim it was stolen. Technically as he took money sent the signed book and handed the keys the transaction is complete without proof the extra €1000 was agreed on to be payed.

    Best he can claim is fraud, he'll have to show some evidence the buyer agreed to give him the extra €1,000 and that he intended to defraud him.

    Otherwise buyer can say sure thats the price we agreed on don't know what he's talking about.


  • #21
    Whocare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Whocare


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    He did bar €1000 so at worst he recieved partial payment he also handed over the keys and signed the book, he can't claim it was stolen. Technically as he took money sent the signed book and handed the keys the transaction is complete without proof the extra €1000 was agreed on to be payed.

    Best he can claim is fraud, he'll have to show some evidence the buyer agreed to give him the extra €1,000 and that he intended to defraud him.

    Otherwise buyer can say sure thats the price we agreed on don't know what he's talking about.

    Yeah I think you're right . It just a nightmare for OP


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  • #22
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Whocare wrote: »
    Yeah I think you're right . It just a nightmare for OP

    Unfortunately it is.
    Because he gave some money for it it doesn't qualify under the statutory definition of theft.

    Ultimately it would come down to hearsay and an uncorobarated story, guards would just say civil matter nothing to do with us.

    €1k is a tough lesson to learn from.


  • #23
    hearsay
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭hearsay


    FrankC21 wrote: »
    What car was it if you don't mind me asking?

    hi Frank

    it was a 151 vw golf

    I will hold out another week or so and see if he sticks to his promise, we discussed everything verbally no written or text message.

    anyway lesson learned, 1st and last time ill be offering any one this option again

    thank you everyone for your listening and comments

    have a nice long weekend

    take care


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