Moving vaccine refusers to back of queue?

heyjude · 20-04-2021 10:06pm #1

I am unclear to what extent the Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine was used to vaccinate people over 65 who live in long-term care facilities though they were the first group to be offered a COVID-19 vaccine, but it was used extensively to vaccinate frontline healthcare workers and some people aged 16-69 at very high risk may have received it before its use was limited to the over 60s. The over 70s living in the community were vaccinated using the Pfizer Biontech and Moderna vaccines and the 65-69 age group have only been registering for their vaccine in the past few days and so they haven't refused any vaccine yet.

This becomes relevant following the statement from Leo Varadkar, a few days ago, that people who refuse vaccines will be put to the back of the queue, so effectively, you cannot choose which vaccine you get, you have to take whichever vaccine you are offered.

This evening on 'The Last Word' with Matt Cooper on Today FM, Matt Cooper said that 45,000 people have refused the Astra Zeneca vaccine. So given that there were very few reports of care home residents refusing vaccines, if they were even using the Astra Zeneca vaccine in nursing homes, that suggests that a sizeable proportion of the refusals must have come from frontline healthcare workers as they made up the overwhelming majority of those offered that vaccine. So does that means that up to 45,000 frontline healthcare workers have been moved to the back of the vaccination queue or does the 'back of the queue' rule only apply to the general public while those within the healthcare system are free to choose which vaccine they are given ?

astrofool · 22-04-2021 8:56pm

The refusal rate has been low enough so far that it won't really effect the hospital admissions. It may effect the individuals who refused it of course but there has to be an element of personal responsibility if you're going to refuse medicine that could save your life because you'd prefer another medicine that also saves your life against the same disease.

The simple answer is that if given a choice, everyone will choose one of the mRNA vaccines, so we'll just end up with a much slower rollout, the efficacy and effect on transmission of all types of vaccine looks to be very similar (and higher than a lot of vaccines to older viruses that people take).

When it goes private, pick and choose to your hearts content, but if you're going to refuse something that everyone wants, then get out of the way and go to the back of the queue.

(I'm betting we'll see people happily lining up for J&J even though it's very similar to AZ)

coylemj · 23-04-2021 1:24pm

You simply can't allow people to decide which vaccine they get. You want to arrive at the Aviva and get stuck behind someone who's picking his vaccine off a menu?

We already have wine bores, cheese bores and coffee bores, deliver us from vaccine bores.

blanch152 · 23-04-2021 2:34pm

astrofool wrote: »

The refusal rate has been low enough so far that it won't really effect the hospital admissions. It may effect the individuals who refused it of course but there has to be an element of personal responsibility if you're going to refuse medicine that could save your life because you'd prefer another medicine that also saves your life against the same disease.

The simple answer is that if given a choice, everyone will choose one of the mRNA vaccines, so we'll just end up with a much slower rollout, the efficacy and effect on transmission of all types of vaccine looks to be very similar (and higher than a lot of vaccines to older viruses that people take).

When it goes private, pick and choose to your hearts content, but if you're going to refuse something that everyone wants, then get out of the way and go to the back of the queue.

(I'm betting we'll see people happily lining up for J&J even though it's very similar to AZ)

Of course we will see people lining up for J&J because one and you're done, go home, pack the suitcase. As someone in their late 50s, I am selfishly hoping it is approved for over 50s so that I can avail of it quickly.

heyjude · 23-04-2021 3:24pm

Despite what Leo Varadkar said, my question was, do you really believe that frontline healthcare workers, (possibly numbering up to 45,000), have been sent to the back of the vaccine queue after refusing the Astra Zeneca vaccine ? Or have they been finding a way to create 'leftover' vaccine doses in order to facilitate them in getting an alternative vaccine instead ?

I don't know, but I think we might have heard something in the media if there were still up to 45,000 unvaccinated frontline staff working within the health system. So maybe a way has been found to accomodate their vaccine hesitancy, with a more hardline approach being taken towards those with similar views among the general public.

is_that_so · 23-04-2021 3:29pm

heyjude wrote: »

Despite what Leo Varadkar said, my question was, do you really believe that frontline healthcare workers, (possibly numbering up to 45,000), have been sent to the back of the vaccine queue after refusing the Astra Zeneca vaccine ? Or have they been finding a way to create 'leftover' vaccine doses in order to facilitate them in getting an alternative vaccine instead ?

I don't know, but I think we might have heard something in the media if there were still up to 45,000 unvaccinated frontline staff working within the health system. So maybe a way has been found to accomodate their vaccine hesitancy, with a more hardline approach being taken towards those with similar views among the general public.

You're confusing two systems, one is the MVC and portal which we will all use. Under that system if you refuse a vaccine you will have to wait until the end. The Group 1&2 programme is administered separately and directly by HSE themselves but like the overall programme people cannot choose their vaccine. Do you have have credible link to that 45,000 claim?

JimmyVik · 24-04-2021 1:35pm

My uncle said to me that he doesnt want the vaccine.
68 years old.
He said - "So these blood clots take about 2 weeks to appear. Can you guarantee me that there wont be some other side effect or type of blood clot that takes a year or 2 to appear that gives you brain damage or something else"

I said there are no guarantees, but if you get covid you are taking a much higher risk.
He didnt care. Set in his ways.

24-04-2021 1:43pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

My uncle said to me that he doesnt want the vaccine.
68 years old.
He said - "So these blood clots take about 2 weeks to appear. Can you guarantee me that there wont be some other side effect or type of blood clot that takes a year or 2 to appear that gives you brain damage or something else"

I said there are no guarantees, but if you get covid you are taking a much higher risk.
He didnt care. Set in his ways.

So be it, move on to the next person.

The chances of getting a clot so far is what, 1 / 1000000? Miniscule.

But it's his choice.

24-04-2021 1:44pm

Are you sure the majority of refusals aren't the second dose?

I would take whatever was given but if I had a choice, the one showing the highest efficiency and I believe j&j is running the lowest. Still one and done is appealing

JimmyVik · 24-04-2021 2:03pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So be it, move on to the next person.

The chances of getting a clot so far is what, 1 / 1000000? Miniscule.

But it's his choice.

I think its 1 in a million even getting one two weeks out.

24-04-2021 2:13pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think its 1 in a million even getting one two weeks out.

Whatever it is. At this moment in time I'm happy to take it.

When my fingers fall off and I develope a tail in ten years time, then so be it.

L1011 · 24-04-2021 4:40pm

The chance of it happening at all is roughly the same chance of you being killed in a car crash over the next three months (well, on <2020 levels of being out and about).

heyjude · 25-04-2021 7:42pm

A podcast of 'The Last Word' feature from last Tuesday that mentions that 45,000 people have refused the AstraZeneca vaccine can be found at https://www.todayfm.com/podcasts/the-last-word-with-matt-cooper/should-we-be-worried-about-the-indian-variant-of-covid-19

Montage of Feck · 25-04-2021 7:58pm

I want the J&J (Janssen) vaccine now! I'll take my chances.

coylemj · 26-04-2021 1:09pm

They're registering people aged 61 today, 60 tomorrow. They will be the last to get the Az vaccine. It remains to be seen which vaccine they will have supplies of to cater for the 55-59 cohort.

Moving vaccine refusers to back of queue?

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