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Banning Crypto Currencies

  • 16-04-2021 11:23am
    #1
    onedmc
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭


    Does anyone else think that Crypto Currencies like Bitcoin should be banned.

    They provide no value to society and if anything undermines it through the facilitation of speculation and possibly enabling the laundering of criminal assets.

    Ok, I know its said to have value only because people say it has value, which is exactly like gold. But banning/restricting trading in gold has happened when it didnt serve society.


Comments

  • #2
    nathan99
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭nathan99


    Cryptocurrencies and blockchain are new disruptive technologies, I dont see why governments would stifle innovation.

    I think they do provide value to society, Blockchain cryptocurrencies have:

    *low transaction fees ( not all of them but the ones specifically designed for day to day transactions)
    *instant payments - think of if you wanted to send some one money to a different country from a bank , how long does it take ?
    *fraud reduction ( transactions on the block chain cannot be hacked/duplicated/changed )
    *Accessbility - anyone can access crypto from anywhere without interference from a central authority

    Plus it is decentralised which means you cannot really ban it, its like banning the internet.


  • #3
    Idioteque
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Idioteque


    I don't think you're going to find much support for that idea on a forum dedicated to Crypto where most either have invested or are thinking about investing.

    Also your view on the value of Crypto is wrong if you think it's merely a speculation on value. You're probably best to watch some videos or do some reading to better understand why Crypto exists (e.g. decentralisation for one reason) and some of the more recent varients (e.g. Defi) to get a better understanding of it. Yes it's a store of value against the constant printing of FIAT money, but it's also much more than that as an ideal and in what it's trying to achieve.

    Also in terms of laundering - this happens with FIAT money everyday and it doesn't stop it being used.


  • #4
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    You can ban it but you can’t enforce the ban. Anyone with even a moderate knowledge of IT will bypass it. Assets only hold value as long as people value them.


  • #5
    HGVRHKYY
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭HGVRHKYY


    Yes, people on a cryptocurrency forum are going to agree with the idea of banning them. Very good!

    How about just let people enjoy things that they're interested in?
    possibly enabling the laundering of criminal assets.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs

    https://news.bitcoin.com/5-major-banks-exposed-for-moving-trillions-for-mobsters-onecoin-and-drug-cartels/

    Banks are facilitating money laundering, let's ban banks!!!


  • #6
    Probes
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    We are currently experiencing a once in a lifetime event where those who don't have much money have an opportunity to make some. Up till now it's typically been the wealthier people that have missed out, I can't see how that is bad.

    There is less crime in cryptocurrency than typical currencies.


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  • #7
    Pdoghue
    Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭Pdoghue


    Interested to see this thread.

    Not sure if this forum is a good place for more philosophical musings on Bitcoin and crypto in general. I'd like it to be though. The other threads are more about investing/speculating.

    I don't think governments will ban crypto - the genie is out of the bottle. It is innovative and will improve society. CBDCs might arrive soon, but they are still centralised.

    From starting from a position where I didn't understand much about crypto and getting into it a lot in the past year, I can see the pros and cons.

    It's fascinating technology - even just going down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. There are obvious benefits to crypto as have been outlined in this thread in terms of decentralisation.

    However, the crypto movement has a fanatically cultish libertarian anti-government bias. The notion that is pushed that you can decouple from nation states and fiat money, go it alone, and become wealthy with a hard deflationary money like bitcoin is dangerous. The ability with fiat to have an elastic supply of currency has advantages.

    On the other hand, central banks' current policy of monetary expansion is also dangerous. If you read Stephanie Kelton's MMT book, I don't believe it's as simple as she portrays. For example, what will happen when the ECB signals that it will no longer 'do whatever it takes' to buy up govt bonds?

    But faced with a pandemic like Covid 19, how would a libertarian society organise itself to react? Or is that an oxymoron? Who could do it better than the state, even if they have messed up?

    One has to have an open mind to all possibilities. There is no utopia.


  • #8
    doc22
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭doc22


    Probes wrote: »
    We are currently experiencing a once in a lifetime event where those who don't have much money have an opportunity to make some. Up till now it's typically been the wealthier people that have missed out, I can't see how that is bad.

    There is less crime in cryptocurrency than typical currencies.

    What nonsense is this? Do only poor people have crypto? Crypto is an opportunity the same way as picking a winner at the Curragh is...


  • #9
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Pdoghue wrote: »
    Interested to see this thread.

    Not sure if this forum is a good place for more philosophical musings on Bitcoin and crypto in general. I'd like it to be though. The other threads are more about investing/speculating.

    I don't think governments will ban crypto - the genie is out of the bottle. It is innovative and will improve society. CBDCs might arrive soon, but they are still centralised.

    From starting from a position where I didn't understand much about crypto and getting into it a lot in the past year, I can see the pros and cons.

    It's fascinating technology - even just going down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. There are obvious benefits to crypto as have been outlined in this thread in terms of decentralisation.

    However, the crypto movement has a fanatically cultish libertarian anti-government bias. The notion that is pushed that you can decouple from nation states and fiat money, go it alone, and become wealthy with a hard deflationary money like bitcoin is dangerous. The ability with fiat to have an elastic supply of currency has advantages.

    On the other hand, central banks' current policy of monetary expansion is also dangerous. If you read Stephanie Kelton's MMT book, I don't believe it's as simple as she portrays. For example, what will happen when the ECB signals that it will no longer 'do whatever it takes' to buy up govt bonds?

    But faced with a pandemic like Covid 19, how would a libertarian society organise itself to react? Or is that an oxymoron? Who could do it better than the state, even if they have messed up?

    One has to have an open mind to all possibilities. There is no utopia.

    Too much money being printed and too much debt being generated. The whole financial system is over leveraged. We also have unsustainable population growth and over farming worldwide. We could also be looking at a global recession after COVID.

    Bill Gates and a few others are buying large amounts of farmland in the US as in the near future it’s value will spike though his interest might be philanthropic.

    Too many variables to say for certain but crypto is an alternative. That said it’s new so institutional investment might be pulled out and reinvested into more traditional and less volatile assets in a recession. No one knows.


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    They're a psy op to bring in digital currency..

    It's going to happen and rather than everyone objecting there's a good part of the population thinking they're great..


  • #11
    Chuckie_Egg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Chuckie_Egg


    Don't see any reason for it to be Banned. I would worry about the long term viability of many of these Blockchains. Short to medium term Bitcoin is a store of value, but I would be very surprised if the cryptography lasts beyond another 10 years now that it is a honey pot


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  • #12
    Probes
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    doc22 wrote: »
    What nonsense is this? Do only poor people have crypto? Crypto is an opportunity the same way as picking a winner at the Curragh is...

    I never said ‘only poor people have crypto’. If you’re going to claim someone is talking nonsense then please actually tackle the point that was made.


  • #13
    JibJabWibWab
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭JibJabWibWab


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Too much money being printed and too much debt being generated. The whole financial system is over leveraged. We also have unsustainable population growth and over farming worldwide. We could also be looking at a global recession after COVID.

    Bill Gates and a few others are buying large amounts of farmland in the US as in the near future it’s value will spike though his interest might be philanthropic.

    Too many variables to say for certain but crypto is an alternative. That said it’s new so institutional investment might be pulled out and reinvested into more traditional and less volatile assets in a recession. No one knows.

    Buying land is the fall-back position for wealthy people.

    Someone like Bill could have billions on deposit and banks are now charging for keeping money on deposit, so...

    Land... They're not making anymore of it...


  • #14
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Can you imagine a country that banned the internet 25 years ago, where would that country be now.

    Now change the scenario to where a country will be if they ban crypto now in 25 years time.


  • #15
    JibJabWibWab
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭JibJabWibWab


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Can you imagine a country that banned the internet 25 years ago, where would that country be now.

    Now change the scenario to where a country will be if they ban crypto now in 25 years time.

    North Korea says hello :wave:


  • #16
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    It was probably posted elsewhere but Turkey have banned it. There was tons of money going into crypto as the the Turkish lira has been plummeting.

    We are facing something monumental over the next few years. Economic oblivion is on the horizon. Governments will want us out spending money as opposed to savings, which will be increasingly taxed. People will be wary of stock markets, as people won't have the disposable income to spend money giving profits to companies and dividends to shareholders. More and more money will be going into crypto. Authoritarian Governments will probably crack down on it but as said before, its the Internet, good luck with that.

    We're not even near the peak right now.


  • #17
    athlone573
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭athlone573


    Arguably, crypto has very little societal value compared with the shocking amount of energy it (Bitcoin anyhow) uses. You'll never be able to ban it though.


  • #18
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,326 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    onedmc wrote: »
    They provide no value to society and if anything undermines it through the facilitation of speculation and possibly enabling the laundering of criminal assets.

    Ok, I know its said to have value only because people say it has value, which is exactly like gold. But banning/restricting trading in gold has happened when it didnt serve society.

    Money already facilitates speculation and criminal asset laundering. It's not as if the hutch/Kinahan gang war is being fought over getting crypto for drugs.

    All the reasons to ban crypto also apply to banning FIAT money.


  • #19
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 15,913 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    onedmc wrote: »
    Does anyone else think that Crypto Currencies like Bitcoin should be banned.

    They provide no value to society and if anything undermines it through the facilitation of speculation and possibly enabling the laundering of criminal assets.

    Ok, I know its said to have value only because people say it has value, which is exactly like gold. But banning/restricting trading in gold has happened when it didnt serve society.

    what is a mortgage if not speculation?

    no value to society...thats quite a philosophical question. why do banks exist at all?

    enabling money laundering...i think that is a genuine concern. a lot of criminals have been brought to justice via a trail of money through banks. i think this eventually will be the stick used to regulate them.

    its like the mona lisa, there is no inherent value but the value placed on it by people, in most cases mass psychology.


  • #20
    Irish_rat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭Irish_rat


    onedmc wrote: »
    Ok, I know its said to have value only because people say it has value, which is exactly like gold. But banning/restricting trading in gold has happened when it didnt serve society.

    Why is Adobe worth billions? The blockchain technology is revolutionary and its only beginning.


  • #21
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Chuckie_Egg wrote: »
    Don't see any reason for it to be Banned. I would worry about the long term viability of many of these Blockchains. Short to medium term Bitcoin is a store of value, but I would be very surprised if the cryptography lasts beyond another 10 years now that it is a honey pot

    It’s actually devalued. The huge amount of dollars printed in the last year (20% of all US dollars were printed last year up to October even more now, think it’s nearing 40%) then you have low interest rates added to that. So you are losing money.


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  • #22
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    JibJabWibWab wrote: »
    Buying land is the fall-back position for wealthy people.

    Someone like Bill could have billions on deposit and banks are now charging for keeping money on deposit, so...

    Land... They're not making anymore of it...

    It’s worse than that. Viable farming land is shrinking. Then you have population growth. High rise hydrophobic farms are being considered in some countries for self sustainability. How realistic this is I’m not sure yet.


  • #23
    ToxicPaddy
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    Due to adoption of cryptocurrencies by larger financial institutions, I can't see it being banned anytime soon. They are even recommending them to their clients for investment purposes.

    Someone said here that it's being used for criminals and drug dealers, yet so was large denominations of Us dollar bills, yet they never dreamed of banning those.


  • #24
    Rezident
    Registered Users Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭Rezident


    Bitcoin was designed to work outside regulated systems. China (and others) tried to ban it, as I recall the price fell for around 9 days and thereafter Bitcoin shrugged off China. Of course many Chinese people continued using Bitcoin regardless. China is now, several years later warming to Bitcoin again as it's own government crypto will never gain the same traction and, evidently, it's hard ban on Bitcoin failed.


  • #25
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭circadian


    I find blockchain an interesting technology in itself. I can see some amazing advancements coming from it over the next few years and I believe some of the blockchaons/currencies that exist now will be the platform for services by blockchain on the whole.

    Microsoft, amongst others, have begun development and rolling out previews of identity management on blockchain technology. You can build your own blockchain, I've done it myself. But if some of the current developers are able to build one that can scale and adapt to demand, then you've got a product that has value, thus the value in the currency, or stock. Whichever way you want to view it.

    For me, we'll see much wider adoption in developing nations before it becomes more widespread in the developed nations.


  • #26
    Rob2D
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 2,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rob2D


    circadian wrote: »
    I find blockchain an interesting technology in itself.

    Agreed. I keep telling people who ask that the whole space makes more sense if you think of it in terms of a software/technology sense. Rather than through a financial lens. But most people find that too hard to grasp. And the term crypto "currency" doesn't help either.

    It's really annoying seeing all these financial YouTube channels bringing on money man after money man to talk crypto. When in reality they're the least qualified to talk about it.


  • #27
    Jackben75
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭Jackben75


    onedmc wrote: »
    Does anyone else think that Crypto Currencies like Bitcoin should be banned.

    They provide no value to society and if anything undermines it through the facilitation of speculation and possibly enabling the laundering of criminal assets.

    Ok, I know its said to have value only because people say it has value, which is exactly like gold. But banning/restricting trading in gold has happened when it didnt serve society.

    Seriously?? Is this a piss take. If anything it should be embraced, anything giving the consumer the power to cut out the middle man (aka banks) and less fees to pay with instant transactions should be embraced! That coin or note in your pocket is just an "agreement", standardised and all that but it is an agreement stating it is worth something. Why should the banks prevail for eternity, fcuk that. This is just 1 example!


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