starting a market garden

pegdrums · 05-04-2021 9:44pm #1

hi how are ye all?

i am interested in starting a small commercial market garden here in cork. i have been growing my own veg for several years in my own veg patch and will be taking on an allotment this autumn. im not afraid of long days spent working outside. im handy enough with my hands and learn quickly.

the more i research this the more it seems is an insane idea. i have never run my own business. land per acre is 10 - 15k or so i hear....

however....i'm not put off.

has anyone here opened a small market garden or veg farm that would care to share their experience of how they got started?

rent or buy the land?
what about access, services, structures on site such as cold storage rooms/ wash rooms?
csa / veg box schemes?
getting your produce into stores?

many thanks for your time.

p.s if anyone is running their own small veg farm i would happily trade my time in labour for a cup of tea and a chat about various aspects of it.

Hillybilly4 · 05-04-2021 9:59pm

There is a guy nr Mallow, used to be called Richard's Little Farm, now Richard's Select Organics. You'll find him on FB.
He started out v small, couple of acres max I think and now has his produce in stores as well as doing veggie boxes etc.
He used to (pre-Covid) run evening classes in Mallow. He might be worth contacting, or at least reading about his story.
Best of luck with your venture.

Nozebleed · 05-04-2021 10:04pm

check out richard perkins you tube channel.

batyushki · 06-04-2021 10:32am

http://dev.organictrust.ie/members/growers

I know a few people who have done this (or attempted). What I would say is that growing commercially is in a very different sphere from growing for yourself. A couple of things I've picked up:

- Polytunnels / greenhouses are almost a necessity, even for crops that normally grow well outside in Ireland. Working with buyers for your produce will require a consistent quantity to be produced for a longer period of time, at a higher standard than is normally possible outside.

- For scale you will benefit from equipment like a heavy rotovator / small tractor. I've seen some operators do without these but it depends on the scale of what you're trying to achieve. Also a water source and watering system in tunnels.

- To support a high velocity of crops you will likely need to import large quantities of compost, so finding a cost effective source for this is important.

- Ability to manage relationships with buyers, and availability of buyers, are important considerations.

- It can be difficult to find small holdings for normal agricultural prices, due to the pressure on smaller holdings to be sold as sites. Anything in the sub-3 acre range is difficult to find and usually has a higher price per acre if the land is good and close to a town. It can sometimes be easier and more economical per acre to find 5-10 acres and then sell or rent the rest.

Good luck!

pegdrums · 06-04-2021 10:16pm

thanks for all your replies.

A buddy in work told me about Richard up in Mallow. I plan on contacting him and trying to hook up for a chat. I didn't know about the evening classes so I'll be sure to look him up.

I have contacted the organic college up in Dromcolliher about their veg course which I think would be extremely useful as it covers the commercial aspect of market gardening.

I have been watching some of Richard Perkins videos, they're great. he's really informative and easy to follow. I've also been watching Charles dowdiness videos which again are really informative. Dutch farmer Moreno and the essex allotment are also worth a watch.

@Batyushki, thanks for the link and the info. i have indeed been looking at prices of poly tunnels as like you say they would be an absolute must. Grow lights are something I was exploring too to get a head start.
I hope to build a good relationship with buyers as well as suppliers. However I have only got customer service experience as a staff and not as my own boss so hopefully I can keep the pressures of the business aside and bring my customer service experience to the fore here. I do look forward to meeting people through this venture and having a chat and a laugh while supplying them with good produce as ordered.

The large quantities of compost could be a pain alright. Stephen Sinnott said in the podcast he was on that compost he bought from the council was awful, full of rubbish and glass. So yea, importing from the uk might be the way to go. although that contradicts the reduced food miles idea somewhat. but it does seem to be a fair price on some uk sites.

Also good advice regarding buying more land than needed and renting the rest.

I would like to see this idea meeting reality within the next 3-5 years so this is all excellent help and advice for the groundwork.

What about you guys?

Do ye grow yer own fruit/ veg?
Are ye using a local veg box scheme?

SouthWesterly · 06-04-2021 11:21pm

Peg drums. Where are you based.
Checks out nots.ie for courses.
I'm doing one on growing in tunnels. Lots of useful advise.

pegdrums · 08-04-2021 11:19pm

im based in Cork. Near the city. What about yourself?

Do you have a bit of you own land with some tunnels up and running?

oh and thanks for the nots recommendation, Id seen it previously but had forgotten about with all the rest of the information Ive been discovering getting piled into my head!

SouthWesterly · 09-04-2021 10:19pm

pegdrums wrote: »

im based in Cork. Near the city. What about yourself?

Do you have a bit of you own land with some tunnels up and running?

oh and thanks for the nots recommendation, Id seen it previously but had forgotten about with all the rest of the information Ive been discovering getting piled into my head!

North kerry. No tunnel but built a 12x4ft greenhouse for seedlings.
I've 4 acres with a half acre for veg/orchard and the rest rented to a local for silage. He maintains the land and ive no outlay

pegdrums · 12-04-2021 6:22pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

North kerry. No tunnel but built a 12x4ft greenhouse for seedlings.
I've 4 acres with a half acre for veg/orchard and the rest rented to a local for silage. He maintains the land and ive no outlay

thanks for the reply.

When you say you have no outlay do you mean the rent you receive covers the mortgage (?) for the land?

Are you up and running selling veg so?

Let me know if a PM would be ok...

Upon further research and advice from the few posts here it does look like buying several acres more than you need and renting what you aren't going to use is the smart option. If for other reason I can never find 1 to 2 acres of land advertised unless it is for a dwelling.

SouthWesterly · 13-04-2021 6:40pm

pegdrums wrote: »

thanks for the reply.

When you say you have no outlay do you mean the rent you receive covers the mortgage (?) for the land?

Are you up and running selling veg so?

Let me know if a PM would be ok...

Upon further research and advice from the few posts here it does look like buying several acres more than you need and renting what you aren't going to use is the smart option. If for other reason I can never find 1 to 2 acres of land advertised unless it is for a dwelling.

The house came with 4.5 acres attached. I rent out 4 for silage having done it myself and paying for everything. That year broke even trading the bales for a heifer in the freezer.
I now rent it and someone else pays for the fertiliser and does the work himself. He's also spreading slurry so improving the field in the longterm.
Not enough veg to sell but I hope that will change this year.

Been 3 years improving the soil and developing the garden into a no dig system.

pegdrums · 13-04-2021 9:35pm

sounds great. The no dig approach is something I would like to aspire to. However I have heard that it can be difficult to get enough compost of decent quality. This would be on a commercial basis....topping up the beds annually that is.

The idea of buying a house with some land really sounds like the best way to go. Being able to rent land you're not using is perfect. However we already own a house so trying to get a 20% deposit together for the move could be tricky so renting some land might be the option.

Unless I got a business loan, that's an avenue I have to explore.........

How has your veg been working out in the no dig beds?

SouthWesterly · 14-04-2021 9:43am

pegdrums wrote: »

sounds great. The no dig approach is something I would like to aspire to. However I have heard that it can be difficult to get enough compost of decent quality. This would be on a commercial basis....topping up the beds annually that is.

The idea of buying a house with some land really sounds like the best way to go. Being able to rent land you're not using is perfect. However we already own a house so trying to get a 20% deposit together for the move could be tricky so renting some land might be the option.

Unless I got a business loan, that's an avenue I have to explore.........

How has your veg been working out in the no dig beds?

Really only starting no dig on a permanent basis this year so I'll let you know.
I got 10 tonnes of compost last month. It doesn't go far

chewjoint · 14-03-2023 10:29am

Good morning Pegdrums! Just wondering how you got on with the market garden mate….did you go ahead?!

pegdrums · 11-08-2023 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356505#Comment_120356505

Hey, how are you? Sorry for late reply. Nope! I did do a day on a small veg farm which was a great experience, would love to be able to do more. We had a house renovation going on and are at the tale end of that now. Still doing my homework and gonna start looking for land to lease to try start something. Maybe do a 4 day week in work to begin with. Logistically it isn't the easiest thing in the world to start but at least my wife is more on board now than she was!

Deub · 13-08-2023 8:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966529#Comment_120966529

Do you have an idea of what you want to sell and how you would sell it?

It is the second year in my allotment in Ireland (Cork) and I learned a lot last year. This year is a lot better. Your plan is something I would be contemplating of doing in the coming years.

magicbastarder · 13-08-2023 8:34pm

i wonder if it's worth identifying a particular crop or set of crops and specialising?

not that i know anything about selling veg, but we grow our own elephant garlic - which is easy to grow - and were commenting recently that for a crop that so easy to grow (and store), it's vanishingly rare in the shops. though someone did once tell me they think they saw it in fallon & byrne for about €5 a bulb.

given that you'd probably easily grow it at 20cm spacing, you'd get a theoretical max of approx 2,500 bulbs out of a 10mx10m plot - selling them for 2 quid each, that's 5k.

SouthWesterly · 14-08-2023 4:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974040#Comment_120974040

Given they are about 1.50 a clove to buy , plus fertilizer, time planting, weeding, harvesting, drying. You would be bankrupt selling at €2.

magicbastarder · 14-08-2023 7:36am

For elephant garlic? As mentioned, I've not seen them in the shops.

And you say €1.50 a clove? Do you specifically mean per clove, or per bulb?

youllbemine · 14-08-2023 12:13pm

I presume they mean €1.50 per clove to buy as your seed stock that you plant in the ground. So you’re only making €0.50/bulb by if selling at €2/bulb. Year one could be just a clove production year. So if you got five plantable cloves per bulb you could have 100 cloves to plant in year from around 20 cloves. Build from there.

epicmoe · 14-08-2023 2:10pm

I have a market garden in Roscommon. we also have a small poultry flock (100 layers) and offer a csa scheme.

we are in a very fortunate circumstance of no rent/mortgage/debt.

If you are setting up with any personal or business debt, it is tough to be feasible. you need to be very near a very good market. that might be more possible for you in cork than in the west. It's definitely something to consider. how much profit per month do you need to pay your business and personal bills, and still stay afloat. can that really be done in your locality? be completely honest with yourself about that. maybe you have a great market near you, I dont know.

really delve into your figures. how much time and cost does it take you to get each crop to market. can you sell at that plus at least 100% markup? make sure to include your labour.

don't worry about wash rooms until you are profitable. wash them off well under the tap for their appearanceand sell them as un washed - goods sold as washed are in for tighter regulations about water quality. once you are profitable, and know what your focus and market is going to be start really delving into efficiencies such as wash and pack rooms.

A cold room: can be handy but not necessary unless selling to shops. Id advise buying a non runner refrigerated van, parking it up, and plugging it in. cheaper than buying and installing a cold room.

CSAs really depend on how good an educator and salesman you are, and again, what your market is like. if you are near a slightly bohemian city/large town you will do well. if not, you won't.

selling to shops: can be worth it, but again depends on market. the lower price and added headaches that wholesale brings rely on moving much more produce to be profitable.

we make a living in the rural west, but again, are in a very fortunate situation re costs.

EDIT: Jim Cronin is the guru in cork for market gardening. often offers courses through NOTS. but dont get hung up on the growing side of things. Growing things is easy (relative to:) business and sales is the harder part, especially if you have never been in business before. I have run two businesses before this one, and even then you really need to push to be a great salesman.

starting a market garden

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