Sam Bennett - no same day spoilers

Dodge · 13-04-2021 10:54AM

I’d argue his win in Paris was without a train too. He effectively left his own train to track Pedersen and then beat him with power

His opening win in Paris Nice this year had no team mates for the last KM either

CramCycle · 13-04-2021 12:07PM

De Bhál wrote: »

Like most sprinters I've seen, Bennett has a fair few wins where he's had to do it himself after the lead out doesn't make it to the last km.

This one linked below at Imola in the Giro stands out for me as a great sprint by him without a leadout.
Another one at Vuelta a Burgos last year where he did a solo uphill attack from a kilometre out - can't find footage of that.

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/giro-d-italia/2018/giro-d-italia-2018-sam-bennett-coasts-to-win-at-imola_vid1090374/video.shtml

One of my favourite wins, an uphill sprint from 1km out. Fair enoguh there was a crash but there was enough riders through that he wasn't handed it. And if you look at the crash he had just started this attack so it was the plan all along I think.
https://www.irishcyclingnews.com/video-sam-bennett-wins-stage-4-vuelta-a-burgos/

dublin49 · 13-04-2021 12:30PM

Have been watchin Sam for quite a while now and I would say he definitely can win without a lead out.Was it the Giro where Viviani won 3 with DQS and Sam won 2 with Bora.I have actually thought Caleb Ewan has benefited by knowing exactly what Sam would be doing with DQS and has pipped him a few times accordingly.

swarlb · 13-04-2021 01:29PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

You clearly never watched him race for Bora.
The rest of this is just "back in my day" old man shouting at cloud nonsense.

No need to be so defensive. One thing is certain, you will be old one day, and trust me, you will 'look back'.
Sam Bennett as I have said, is clearly a very competent professional, but he needs that one 'classic' win to give himself a confidence boost. Once he gets that under his belt, he can relax, and other victories will follow easier.
On more than one occasion Kelly has commented that the race win he remembers the most was his first classic, and if you look back at a photo of that Tour of Lombardy win (there I go, looking back again) you can barely see who's wheel is in front.
There's a lot more of the year left... who knows, some golfer could win the prize, or maybe a snooker player.... possibly darts ..... it's not a given.

happytramp · 13-04-2021 01:32PM

It's an odd point to make alright..... He was basically well known for winning without support from his team. It was a major source of frustration for those on here over the last few years.

Thud · 13-04-2021 01:44PM

eeeee wrote: »

No female jockey in history has ever come close to what she is doing this season, not even close.

Julie Krone might disagree

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Krone

mewso · 13-04-2021 02:01PM

Bit confused with the comparison to Kelly though. Bennett is a pure sprinter and while Kelly was technically a sprinter he was really a classics/cobble specialist. I don't see why Sam has to win a classic. He certainly could but winning at the Champs Elysees would be the pinnacle for a pure sprinter I would have thought and he has done that. The rest is gravy.

happytramp · 13-04-2021 02:04PM

Sam won a world tour level classic a few weeks ago.

mewso · 13-04-2021 02:10PM

happytramp wrote: »

Sam won a world tour level classic a few weeks ago.

Indeed he did. One of the few he could realistically win. I can't see him winning the cobbled classics even though he made a good go of it at Gent-Wevelgem.

eeeee · 13-04-2021 02:50PM

Thud wrote: »

Julie Krone might disagree

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Krone

Julie was a savage tough rider, and won some big races, but was never almost champion jockey. She was also a flat rider not a NH rider, it's s different discipline, like road racing and downhill MTBing. Haley Turner would be a good comparison with her.

On Sam, I think he's conclusively proven he is the fastest man around the last 2 years. Racing was different in Kelly's time, the specialisation of riders wasn't anywhere near the level it is now. I don't think sprint trains were as much of a thing in Kelly's day, and I'd say they're faster now than they were then (I mean they were still silly quick back then but they're savage now!).

He's won the green jersey, mopped up enough sprint stages and has won a WT race, I'd have that down as a pretty conclusive palmares!

Dodge · 13-04-2021 03:15PM

Kelly won 5 tour stages but I think only one of them was a sprint. The rest from breakaways or reduced bunch

He won 3 of his green jerseys without winning a stage in that years race

He won a grand tour and obviously excelled in the classics. He was a great all rounder, but he wasn’t really a sprinter

breezy1985 · 13-04-2021 03:19PM

swarlb wrote: »

No need to be so defensive. One thing is certain, you will be old one day, and trust me, you will 'look back'.
Sam Bennett as I have said, is clearly a very competent professional, but he needs that one 'classic' win to give himself a confidence boost. Once he gets that under his belt, he can relax, and other victories will follow easier.
On more than one occasion Kelly has commented that the race win he remembers the most was his first classic, and if you look back at a photo of that Tour of Lombardy win (there I go, looking back again) you can barely see who's wheel is in front.
There's a lot more of the year left... who knows, some golfer could win the prize, or maybe a snooker player.... possibly darts ..... it's not a given.

Sorry but don't come on here with this "kids these days" are useless cause they didn't cycle bikes carved out of limestone or whatever you rode and then expect people to stay quiet. Especially when you start by admitting you are posting something that will upset people.

Sprinters don't win green jerseys and Lombardy anymore and rarely win any monument even MSR. It's a different sport now

breezy1985 · 13-04-2021 03:22PM

Dodge wrote: »

Kelly won 5 tour stages but I think only one of them was a sprint. The rest from breakaways or reduced bunch

He won 3 of his green jerseys without winning a stage in that years race

He won a grand tour and obviously excelled in the classics. He was a great all rounder, but he wasn’t really a sprinter

The points distribution has changed a fair bit over the years too to favour flat stage winners. The old TdF was more like the current Vuelta green

Dodge · 13-04-2021 03:33PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

The points distribution has changed a fair bit over the years too to favour flat stage winners. The old TdF was more like the current Vuelta green

Yeah. To be fair Kelly won a lot of ‘intermediate sprint’ jerseys too. I’m not suggesting he wasn’t quick! The racing was different though.

For my money the greatest sprinter ever is Cavendish and he only one green jersey. Mario Cippolini was frighteningly fast and gave up after 2 stage wins when he hit the first hill

DonegalBay · 13-04-2021 03:47PM

Seriously, would winning the Green Jersey even rank in the Top 10 most prestigious achievements in cycling in any given year. 3 GT, Worlds, M-SR, RVV, PR, L-B-L, SB and Lom all way ahead. I personally would put some of the Semi-Classics, Week long stage races and GT podium finishers ahead of it as well. Might scape into my Top 20. The only reason it has any prestige is because it is part of Le Tour monster which Joe Public has some awareness off. I admired Bennett for the fight he had to make to win the Tour and fair play to him, i don't know much about horse racing but isnt what Rachel Blackmore has achieved the equivilant of winning Le Tour and the Giro in one season(Yes I know it involves the horse as well but many of Bennetts win were due to his team as well).

Then again, I don't much care for sprinters in general. Still thinks its a travesty that the likes of Cipo and Cav have World Titles, having had their teams shut down the entire race for them to sprint for 200m or less at the end. Maybe before the advent of sprint trains, race radios and TVs in the cars, I might have had more respect for sprinters. The Basque Country race last week was glorious, not a bunch sprint in sight and far more interesting for it.

breezy1985 · 13-04-2021 03:54PM

DonegalBay wrote: »

Seriously, would winning the Green Jersey even rank in the Top 10 most prestigious achievements in cycling in any given year. 3 GT, Worlds, M-SR, RVV, PR, L-B-L, SB and Lom all way ahead. I personally would put some of the Semi-Classics, Week long stage races and GT podium finishers ahead of it as well. Might scape into my Top 20. The only reason it has any prestige is because it is part of Le Tour monster which Joe Public has some awareness off. I admired Bennett for the fight he had to make to win the Tour and fair play to him, i don't know much about horse racing but isnt what Rachel Blackmore has achieved the equivilant of winning Le Tour and the Giro in one season(Yes I know it involves the horse as well but many of Bennetts win were due to his team as well).

Then again, I don't much care for sprinters in general. Still thinks its a travesty that the likes of Cipo and Cav have World Titles, having had their teams shut down the entire race for them to sprint for 200m or less at the end. Maybe before the advent of sprint trains, race radios and TVs in the cars, I might have had more respect for sprinters. The Basque Country race last week was glorious, not a bunch sprint in sight and far more interesting for it.

Anything that happens in the TdF ranks highly due to the fact it dwarfs other events which is why the whole country has heard of Sam Bennett and no one cared when Dan Martin won multiple monuments.
Winning the TdF and Giro involves being on top of your game for 42 races so I wouldn't say it's the same as the Grand National and Cheltenham in the slightest
Also there are no race radios at the WC

DonegalBay · 13-04-2021 04:00PM

Dodge wrote: »

Yeah. To be fair Kelly won a lot of ‘intermediate sprint’ jerseys too. I’m not suggesting he wasn’t quick! The racing was different though.

For my money the greatest sprinter ever is Cavendish and he only one green jersey. Mario Cippolini was frighteningly fast and gave up after 2 stage wins when he hit the first hill

I would have Cipo over Cav any day based purely on who he faced off against in his career. Van Poppel, Ludwig, Museeuw, Abdujaparov, Nelissen, Zabel, Steels, Freire, McEwen, Petacchi over the course of Cipos career. The fact that McEwen, Petacchi, Zabel and Freire were still counted among the top sprinters in their mid to late 30s shows how week that generation of sprinters were when Cavendish arrived. Once Greipel got away from Cav, Kittel arrived and maybe Sagan, Cavs dominance vanished.

DonegalBay · 13-04-2021 04:09PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Anything that happens in the TdF ranks highly due to the fact it dwarfs other events which is why the whole country has heard of Sam Bennett and no one cared when Dan Martin won multiple monuments.
Winning the TdF and Giro involves being on top of your game for 42 races so I wouldn't say it's the same as the Grand National and Cheltenham in the slightest
Also there are no race radios at the WC

Yeah I said it was due to Joe Public knowing about the Tour, but the average cycling fan knows where the real importance of Monuments v Green Jersey lies.
In terms of prestige, Winning what Blackmore won is equal to the Tour and Giro. Is winning the Worlds, RVV or P-R less prestigious than a Vuelta or Giro just because they are one day races?
And even if there were no radios, having a whole team kill a race is hardly endearing.

breezy1985 · 13-04-2021 04:21PM

DonegalBay wrote: »

Yeah I said it was due to Joe Public knowing about the Tour, but the average cycling fan knows where the real importance of Monuments v Green Jersey lies.
In terms of prestige, Winning what Blackmore won is equal to the Tour and Giro. Is winning the Worlds, RVV or P-R less prestigious than a Vuelta or Giro just because they are one day races?
And even if there were no radios, having a whole team kill a race is hardly endearing.

Endearing it isn't I agree there that it makes for pretty boring racing. It's the cycling equivalent of Mourinhios Chelsea or tiki taka football. Boring, smothering but effective.

Seeing as we are on endearing I find nothing endearing about jumping up and down on an animals back while whipping it

DonegalBay · 13-04-2021 04:34PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Endearing it isn't I agree there that it makes for pretty boring racing. It's the cycling equivalent of Mourinhios Chelsea or tiki taka football. Boring, smothering but effective.

Seeing as we are on endearing I find nothing endearing about jumping up and down on an animals back while whipping it

I have zero interest in horse racing as well, but it is what it is and falls under the 'sports' bracket, like many other debatable 'sports' motorsports, darts, golf, snooker, cricket etc, etc. But as that is the criteria I would say Rachel's Blackmore's achievements this year simply dwarfs what Sam achieved. From what I have heard and seen of her as well, I like her attitude and personality.

breezy1985 · 13-04-2021 04:37PM

DonegalBay wrote: »

I have zero interest in horse racing as well, but it is what it is and falls under the 'sports' bracket, like many other debatable 'sports' motorsports, darts, golf, snooker, cricket etc, etc. But as that is the criteria I would say Rachel's Blackmore's achievements this year simply dwarfs what Sam achieved. From what I have heard and seen of her as well, I like her attitude and personality.

This year certainly well so far at least and the only big one left for Sam is green and it wasn't enough for last year so probably still won't be.

at1withmyself · 13-04-2021 04:55PM

Look if we're ever going to get to the end of this (ridiculous) comparison then it can only be resolved one way;

Sam Vs. Rachel 1 mile drag race and to entice them then the winner gets crowned RTE sports person of the year!

breezy1985 · 13-04-2021 05:29PM

at1withmyself wrote: »

Look if we're ever going to get to the end of this (ridiculous) comparison then it can only be resolved one way;

Sam Vs. Rachel 1 mile drag race and to entice them then the winner gets crowned RTE sports person of the year!

Tommy Voekler already tried it

dublin49 · 13-04-2021 05:47PM

I DOUBT EITHER SAM OR RACHEL WERE INSPIRED AT AN EARLY AGE BY THE THOUGHT OF WINNING SPORTS PERSONALITY OF YEAR

happytramp · 13-04-2021 06:41PM

DonegalBay wrote: »

Seriously, would winning the Green Jersey even rank in the Top 10 most prestigious achievements in cycling in any given year. 3 GT, Worlds, M-SR, RVV, PR, L-B-L, SB and Lom all way ahead. I personally would put some of the Semi-Classics, Week long stage races and GT podium finishers ahead of it as well. Might scape into my Top 20. The only reason it has any prestige is because it is part of Le Tour monster which Joe Public has some awareness off. I admired Bennett for the fight he had to make to win the Tour and fair play to him, i don't know much about horse racing but isnt what Rachel Blackmore has achieved the equivilant of winning Le Tour and the Giro in one season(Yes I know it involves the horse as well but many of Bennetts win were due to his team as well).

Then again, I don't much care for sprinters in general. Still thinks its a travesty that the likes of Cipo and Cav have World Titles, having had their teams shut down the entire race for them to sprint for 200m or less at the end. Maybe before the advent of sprint trains, race radios and TVs in the cars, I might have had more respect for sprinters. The Basque Country race last week was glorious, not a bunch sprint in sight and far more interesting for it.

You're not seriously suggesting a strade bianche on your palmares is more impressive than a green jersey at the tour are you?.... There's a very strong argument for it being ahead of lombardia too.

dublin49 · 13-04-2021 08:33PM

happytramp wrote: »

You're not seriously suggesting a strade bianche on your palmares is more impressive than a green jersey at the tour are you?.... There's a very strong argument for it being ahead of lombardia too.

I would have thought Kellys fame is more linked to his Classics wins than his green jerseys ? no?

breezy1985 · 13-04-2021 08:37PM

dublin49 wrote: »

I would have thought Kellys fame is more linked to his Classics wins than his green jerseys ? no?

It's more the fact he was a bit of everything. I would say Sagan is really the only guy who compares nowadays

dublin49 · 13-04-2021 08:48PM

I heard Kirby saying that Wiggins said he would swap his TDF for a Paris Roubaix.

Tell me how · 13-04-2021 09:19PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

It's more the fact he was a bit of everything. I would say Sagan is really the only guy who compares nowadays

MvDP, early days for him but man he looks promising.

retalivity · 13-04-2021 09:26PM

dublin49 wrote: »

I heard Kirby saying that Wiggins said he would swap his TDF for a Paris Roubaix.

Wiggins talks some sh1te, if he told me the sky was blue id still open the curtains

Sam Bennett - no same day spoilers

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