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BMW 330e

  • 26-05-2017 1:21pm
    #1
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Any opinions on the BMW 330e plug-in hybrid?

    Yes, yes, I know that a BEV. It is for a family member who might be interested. Currently drives a 330d and is thinking of changing. Mostly does very little day to day driving (maybe about 3 to 4km) but drives Cork the Dublin and back every weekend.

    How is it's MPG on the motorway?
    Post edited by liamog on


«134

Comments

  • #2
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,703 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    There's a huge thread on it on the main motors forum. My own view: superb value for money (about the same price as a 318d auto) and you get serious performance: 0-100 in 6s and 250km/h

    You get the free home EVSE of course and you could hook it up at night and do all your local driving for (nearly) free. But as most people in here would agree - the savings are a bit mickey mouse and you have to hook it up every night. But you get a good feeling that you are not only zero emissions but that you don't pollute your local area with cancerous diesel particles

    Coefficient of drag is excellent (0.26) so motorway consumption should be very good (but not quite as good as a diesel)


  • #3
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Just tell him to buy a Tesla. Problem sorted :D


  • #4
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    Not too many on Spritmonitor, but fifteen 330e owners are averaging 5.78 l/100km (49 MPG): https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/6-BMW/37-3er.html?fueltype=6&powerunit=2
    Better on average than the 330d (don't know which year though)

    US EPA rates it at 5.3 l/100km "highway" (53 imp. MPG), which wouldn't be too far off reality at speeds around 100km/h.

    Of course with PHEVs, fuel consumption will vary wildly depending on how much EV mode driving you do.

    I have a Prius Plug-in, and have halved my running costs compared to my previous diesel ('02 Peugeot 406). My commute is 14km (round trip) and I do about 12,000 km a year, about 30-40% electric-only driving. Never going back to a diesel! The 330e has a slightly higher EV range than mine.

    VRT is also very low if buying used from the UK, and will be in band A1 for tax (€170 per year).


  • #5
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    What's it's range in ev mode?
    How much new?


  • #6
    carsfan2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭carsfan2


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98481326

    I started this thread and subsequently bought one. Very happy with it.


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  • #7
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,359 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    thierry14 wrote: »
    What's it's range in ev mode?
    How much new?

    Guy in work has one.
    45km I think but depends on speeds as the engine kicks in above a particular speed I believe.


  • #8
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,256 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I've long been interested. Couldn't do a deal yet. There was a 4k dealer contribution up to March but I believe there are new deals coming for 172.
    Dealers are absolutely taking the piss price wise on demo and prereg cars.
    There is 7500 government grant (5k seai grant and 2.5k vrt rebate)


  • #9
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Thanks for all the info guys.

    BTW sorry she actually currently has a 318d at the moment not a 330d!

    Unfortunately it doesn't sound like it would be for her. Yes it is great that you get 330 like performance for 318 prices. But she isn't really interested in performance so that wouldn't make a difference for her.

    And as the VAST majority of her driving is long distance motorway, then it sounds like this would end up with worse fuel economy for her then a Diesel :( And would be concerned about the reduction in boot space, when she considers the 3 series to already have a pretty small boot!

    Don't get me wrong, sounds like a fantastic car and option for someone with a longer daily commute and less frequent long distance motorway driving. Good to see BMW start to do some EV in their mainstream cars.

    She has actually expressed interest in Tesla. Visited a Tesla showroom in the US two weeks ago. Obviously model s far too expensive, but she is keeping an open mind about the model 3. But obviously depends on price, range, looks, interior and perhaps most importantly when it is available. I don't know if she will wait two years for one. But she might end up getting a new BMW today and look again at Tesla in 3 years time.


  • #10
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    I think the 330e will still return better fuel economy on average compared to the 318d. Even with something like Cork-Dublin you can utilise the EV mode when driving in the cities - low speed, heavy traffic driving is where diesels are at their worst.

    Still might be hard to justify with such a short commute though, and I don't know about boot space in the 330e. It's not great with my Prius (less space than standard Prius, no spare wheel space), but at least it's still a hatchback so I can fold down the seats and fit my bike in or whatever.


  • #11
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    zilog_jones wrote: »
    I think the 330e will still return better fuel economy on average compared to the 318d. Even with something like Cork-Dublin you can utilise the EV mode when driving in the cities - low speed, heavy traffic driving is where diesels are at their worst.

    Would it, I'm not so sure, but would love to be wrong?

    She currently gets 53mpg from the 318d

    She does about 3km a day, then about 530km Cork to Dublin once a week. That is about 21km city driving per week, versus 530km motorway.

    I see reports of 46mpg for a 80mile trip on another forum, and 40mpg on motorway driving here on another thread here on boards.

    So 40 to 45mpg motorway driving seems to be the reality and that would be quiet a step down from 53mpg (plus more expensive petrol).

    Given that 96% of her driving is motorway, I don't think like it would add up for her.

    Again, sounds like a great option for some people. Just that she, like myself, have an unusual usage pattern, that EV's aren't well suited to quiet yet (obviously based on what is available in Ireland and ignoring lovely Tesla's).


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  • #12
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,318 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    As much an EV fanboy as I am, I don't think a weekly 530km trip is suited to most currently available mass market EVs.
    You could do it as a one off (eg I have done a few 500km, 700km etc trips in my leaf) but not weekly.

    A Zoe ZE40 could do 530km with one charge stop and if you had the q90 model (the 43kW AC fast charging) that would be a 40 minute stop. Other than that, there's not much out there short of a tesla.


  • #13
    MaceFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    I done about 280km in my 330e yesterday, starting with an empty battery. Driving from West Clare through Limerick to North Kildare with a few stops.

    Got about 41 mpg.


  • #14
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    bk wrote: »
    Would it, I'm not so sure, but would love to be wrong?

    She currently gets 53mpg from the 318d

    Is that trip computer, or real measurements? The trip computer could easily be off by 2-3 MPG.

    Average here is 53 MPG (imperial) based on 31 users:
    http://www.fuelly.com/car/bmw/330e

    Again you can see fuel consumption varies wildly between different users, so it's hard to tell really. I'd also say the sample size is too small.

    Average for the 318d here (don't know age, so guessing it's an F30):
    https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/6-BMW/37-3er.html?constyear_s=2011&exactmodel=318d&powerunit=2
    That's about 48 MPG, but again may not match her driving.
    She does about 3km a day, then about 530km Cork to Dublin once a week. That is about 21km city driving per week, versus 530km motorway.
    But that 530km won't be 100% motorway - there's still the journey to the M8, and the journey off the N7 or M50 or whatever that could be done in EV mode. It's probably not enough to bring it up to fuel consumption levels comparable to the diesel though. I'm surprised how bad it apparently is at motorway speeds.

    If you are seriously considering a PHEV, maybe the new Prius Plug-in (out next month) is an option? Of course it's not a BMW, but quite upmarket for a Toyota. EV range is around 40km, and 60 MPG at motorway speeds is actually achievable.


  • #15
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,068 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    zilog_jones wrote: »
    Average here is 53 MPG (imperial) based on 31 users:
    http://www.fuelly.com/car/bmw/330e


    Average for the 318d here (don't know age, so guessing it's an F30):
    https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/6-BMW/37-3er.html?constyear_s=2011&exactmodel=318d&powerunit=2
    That's about 48 MPG, but again may not match her driving.


    If you are seriously considering a PHEV, maybe the new Prius Plug-in (out next month) is an option? Of course it's not a BMW, but quite upmarket for a Toyota. EV range is around 40km, and 60 MPG at motorway speeds is actually achievable.


    I'm surprised the 330e is so "bad". Its not a lot better than most Hybrids. I would have expected a PHEV to beat every hybrid with ease. I had it in my head they were 100+ mpg cars. Must have dreamt that one or else it was NEDC crap I read.

    Even your PHEV Prius doesn't appear to be that much better than a standard Prius and yet you have the slight inconvenience of plugging it in every night and getting a charge point installed? Am I wrong?


  • #16
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,318 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    KCross wrote: »
    I'm surprised the 330e is so "bad". Its not a lot better than most Hybrids. I would have expected a PHEV to beat every hybrid with ease. I had it in my head they were 100+ mpg cars. Must have dreamt that one or else it was NEDC crap I read.

    Even your PHEV Prius doesn't appear to be that much better than a standard Prius and yet you have the slight inconvenience of plugging it in every night and getting a charge point installed? Am I wrong?
    NEDC MPG is 124mpg for the 330e so I'm guessing it's NEDC crap you read! :pac:


  • #17
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    zilog_jones wrote: »
    Is that trip computer, or real measurements? The trip computer could easily be off by 2-3 MPG.

    That would still be 50 to 51mpg, which would still be far better then 40mpg.
    zilog_jones wrote: »
    But that 530km won't be 100% motorway - there's still the journey to the M8, and the journey off the N7 or M50 or whatever that could be done in EV mode. It's probably not enough to bring it up to fuel consumption levels comparable to the diesel though. I'm surprised how bad it apparently is at motorway speeds.

    Most of it would, she is pretty near the motorway at both ends. Maybe 10km of that wouldn't be on the motorway.

    Cork to Dublin really is one of the more challenging trips for EV's in the country. Relatively long, clear, uncongested road where you can easily put the foot down heavy.
    zilog_jones wrote: »
    I'm surprised how bad it apparently is at motorway speeds.

    I'm not, basically off the battery, it is acting like a regular 2l petrol car that also has to drag extra battery weight, electric motor and charging port, etc.
    zilog_jones wrote: »
    If you are seriously considering a PHEV, maybe the new Prius Plug-in (out next month) is an option? Of course it's not a BMW, but quite upmarket for a Toyota. EV range is around 40km, and 60 MPG at motorway speeds is actually achievable.

    She wouldn't, it would be a downgrade that I don't think she would be willing to make.

    Interestingly she went into a Lexus dealer, she previously had a Lexus that she absolutely loved and would be quiet happy to go back to them. When he heard the type of driving she does and the MPG she currently gets, he pretty much turned her away there and then saying that they couldn't come close to matching that!


  • #18
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    KCross wrote: »
    Even your PHEV Prius doesn't appear to be that much better than a standard Prius and yet you have the slight inconvenience of plugging it in every night and getting a charge point installed? Am I wrong?

    PHEV's are great for people who have a typical 50km per day commute. Most of the daily commute can be on EV and thus the mythical NEDC MPG.

    But for people like me and the person I'm asking about, who have very little daily driving, but lots of long distance driving at the weekend, PHEV's still don't seem to make sense.

    Perhaps i3 style range extenders or big battery BEV's only start to outperform Diesel then.


  • #19
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    KCross wrote: »
    Even your PHEV Prius doesn't appear to be that much better than a standard Prius and yet you have the slight inconvenience of plugging it in every night and getting a charge point installed? Am I wrong?

    I'm averaging 3.67 l/100km or 77 MPG:
    https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/756704.html

    Maybe about 35% of my driving is in EV mode (I forget exactly).

    56 MPG is about the average for the standard petrol hybrid 3rd gen Prius, and is pretty much what I'd get if I didn't charge it. With motorway driving it'll do low 50's if I stick to the limit, or up to 60 MPG if I stick to 100km/h - the 4th gen Prius/2nd gen PHV is substantially more efficient at high speeds. The majority of my driving out of town is not motorways (e.g. N20).

    No charge point needed for me, it only charges at 10A anyway so I just use a 13A socket (in a storage unit behind my underground parking space, i.e. I pay for it). Totally worth the one minute per day I spend plugging it in/out :). I believe the new Prius PHV has a 16A charger, and so does the 330e.

    It looks like the 330e is just less efficient as a hybrid. I don't know too much about how it works in comparison, but Toyota in general seem to have the edge here. Being about 200-300kg heavier doesn't help either.


  • #20
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    bk wrote: »
    I'm not, basically off the battery, it is acting like a regular 2l petrol car that also has to drag extra battery weight, electric motor and charging port, etc.

    Again, I don't know how enough about the 330e powertrain, but if that's how it works then they're doing it wrong! The Prius PHVs (and probably Outlander too) still work like normal petrol series-parallel hybrids when the battery state of charge is low, and will just maintain a low SOC - so they'll still deliver hybrid-like fuel economy even if you're not plugging in.


  • #21
    TBi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭TBi


    zilog_jones wrote: »
    Again, I don't know how enough about the 330e powertrain, but if that's how it works then they're doing it wrong! The Prius PHVs (and probably Outlander too) still work like normal petrol series-parallel hybrids when the battery state of charge is low, and will just maintain a low SOC - so they'll still deliver hybrid-like fuel economy even if you're not plugging in.

    I think the main difference is that the prius (and lexus) has a very efficient Atkinson cycle petrol engine, so when it's running on petrol it can get close to diesel MPG. The 330e (and outlander/VW GTE cars) use normal engines which are not as efficient. The engine in the 330e is exactly the same as the 320i so as efficient as that in normal operation.

    EDIT: the atkinson cycle engine is also the reason why the prius and Lexus rev so high when accelerating. This type of engine has very little torque, compared to regular petrol, at low RPM. The electric motor is used to fill in this torque at low RPM.


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  • #22
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    zilog_jones wrote: »
    Again, I don't know how enough about the 330e powertrain, but if that's how it works then they're doing it wrong! The Prius PHVs (and probably Outlander too) still work like normal petrol series-parallel hybrids when the battery state of charge is low, and will just maintain a low SOC - so they'll still deliver hybrid-like fuel economy even if you're not plugging in.

    The difference is the Prius was built from the ground up as a Hybrid. The 330 is primary a Diesel car with a battery and motor banged in it.

    330e weight: 1735kg
    318d weight: 1410kg
    Prius 2017 plug-in: 1526kg (8.8 kWh battery)

    An extra 200kg over the Prius plug-in and 300kg over the Diesel.

    The Lexus hybrids have similar poor performance. 45mpg seems normal for them!

    You can't just stick a battery in a typical ICE car and expect great performance.

    Having said that, the 330e does have other advantages, including great acceleration and other performance metrics. 330 type performance at 318 prices makes it very attractive to people who like speed and handling. It is a car tuned to this rather then outright fuel economy like a Prius.

    For a person who does a lot more city or mixed driving and likes BMW type handling, speed and performance, then it is a great bargain for that type of driver, even though it doesn't have anywhere close to Prius type fuel economy.

    I suppose there is always the i3 for the more fuel economy minded.

    Having said all that, I don't think the 330e will be anywhere close to good enough once the Tesla Model 3 hits. BMW will need to significantly up their game then to compete.

    A full BEV 3 series will be required.


  • #23
    TBi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭TBi


    bk wrote: »
    The Lexus hybrids have similar poor performance. 45mpg seems normal for them!

    Most of what i read about lexus hybrids (specifically the IS300h) is that they get low 50's and upwards. However i really think this is due to driving style. Owners of Prius drive for fuel economy, owners of lexus drive fast. I commute to work with someone who has a 2l diesel. He gets 45mpg and i get almost 37mpg in my 2.2L petrol on the same drive. With a diesel i can get close to 60MPG just due to driving style.


  • #24
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    TBi wrote: »
    Most of what i read about lexus hybrids (specifically the IS300h) is that they get low 50's and upwards. However i really think this is due to driving style. Owners of Prius drive for fuel economy, owners of lexus drive fast. I commute to work with someone who has a 2l diesel. He gets 45mpg and i get almost 37mpg in my 2.2L petrol on the same drive. With a diesel i can get close to 60MPG just due to driving style.

    Well I was reading 40 to 45mpg for motorway driving for the IS300h on the web in general. Maybe 50mpg is more mixed?

    Obviously it is hard to compare between different peoples driving styles and different commutes. But if she is typically getting 53mpg in a 318d, that would indicate a middle of the road driving style (not too fast, not too slow).

    Similar seems to be about 45mpg for the IS300h according to owners of it. Fuelly says 44.7mpg

    There is no point in me telling her that she will get 60mpg if she drives like a Prius owner, when she has always been a BMW/Lexus person and driven like one.

    I think that fact that a Lexus dealer was turning away an otherwise easy sell (previous Lexus owner who loves them and actually preferred the interior to her newer 3 series) says it all. I'd assume he knows the reality better then anyone.


  • #25
    TBi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭TBi


    Possibly. I don't own an IS300h so cant really comment. But if you look at fuelly then the average mpg for a 318d is 46-48mpg. Very close to the is300h. Possibly someone who gets 53mpg out of a 318d will get similar out of an is300h. I am thinking of purchasing an IS300h. If i can convince the better half...

    Although if she is going to get a BMW again i'd recommend the automatic gearbox. That is a thing of beauty!

    EDIT: BTW i don't recommend she get a Lexus. Hybrid efficiency is only average for short distances (<10km) as the engine doesn't get up to operating temperature and the hybrid system doesn't work to it's full potential.


  • #26
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    TBi wrote: »
    EDIT: the atkinson cycle engine is also the reason why the prius and Lexus rev so high when accelerating. This type of engine has very little torque, compared to regular petrol, at low RPM. The electric motor is used to fill in this torque at low RPM.
    The 2ZR-FXE is about equally 20-25% down on power and torque compared to the Otto-cycle 1.8 version of the same engine (2ZR-FE, found in Avensis, Corolla, Verso, etc.). I think the high revs are also a lot to do with the continuously variable transmission trying to keep the engine at its most efficient - personally I'd be doing similar in a manual in the same situations. Mine's pretty quiet at motorway speeds when not accelerating hard, doesn't go above 2000 RPM.
    bk wrote: »
    Well I was reading 40 to 45mpg for motorway driving for the IS300h on the web in general. Maybe 50mpg is more mixed?

    Obviously it is hard to compare between different peoples driving styles and different commutes. But if she is typically getting 53mpg in a 318d, that would indicate a middle of the road driving style (not too fast, not too slow).

    Similar seems to be about 45mpg for the IS300h according to owners of it. Fuelly says 44.7mpg

    44 MPG is the average on Spritmonitor too (76 users). The IS300h is significantly bigger than the Prius, with a bigger ICE (2.5 vs. 1.8) - and now it's a generation behind the Prius in terms of hybrid technology.
    TBi wrote:
    But if you look at fuelly then the average mpg for a 318d is 46-48mpg. Very close to the is300h. Possibly someone who gets 53mpg out of a 318d will get similar out of an is300h.
    I'd say not - hybrids traditionally do much better where diesels are worst, i.e. city vs. motorway driving. I was getting terrible fuel economy (high 30's-low 40's) with my Peugeot 406 diesel because of the amount of city driving I do. It would easily do 55 MPG on the motorway, but my average ended up around 43. The 4th gen Prius is much better in this respect, but the Lexus hybrids are still on older tech.


  • #27
    carsfan2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭carsfan2


    OP I think your wife is not suited to 330e based on what you have said and her regular journeys. The fuel returns are very user specific.
    I average 52 mpg in mine but do more shorter trips and plug in every night and more at weekends.
    Long journeys crucify the mpg in it.
    I love my 330e but think of it as a relatively cheap performance car with cheap running costs. If I was regularly on the motorway network doing long journeys I would have picked something else as diesel is still cheaper in this country.


  • #28
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    Apologies if this was covered earlier, I just owned G20 330e 2121,
    My query every time I charge the battery to 100% the KM range is different sometimes it gave me 49 KM range on Full charge and today it gave me 17 KM, is that normal? Also any tips or advice?
    Thanks a million in advance


  • #29
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭whippet


    The quoted range will depend on the temp outside (the EV range will decrease when it’s cold outside)

    I have a G20 330e also and the lowest I’ve seen on start up with a full battery has been 38km on a very cold day so 17km does not sound right.

    Also - aircon / heating / heated seats / heated steering wheel all zap the battery range. On cold mornings use the app to precondition the car while it is plugged in and that means that your range won’t be affected by having to heat up the car initially.


  • #30
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,359 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    bilasy wrote: »
    Apologies if this was covered earlier, I just owned G20 330e 2121,
    My query every time I charge the battery to 100% the KM range is different sometimes it gave me 49 KM range on Full charge and today it gave me 17 KM, is that normal? Also any tips or advice?
    Thanks a million in advance

    Based on the previous driving session.
    Cold weather and if you just turned on the climate control etc

    My own BEV was extremely cold this morning, power restricted and no regen for the first 10 minutes due to the battery being so cold.


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  • #31
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    whippet wrote: »
    The quoted range will depend on the temp outside (the EV range will decrease when it’s cold outside)

    I have a G20 330e also and the lowest I’ve seen on start up with a full battery has been 38km on a very cold day so 17km does not sound right.

    Also - aircon / heating / heated seats / heated steering wheel all zap the battery range. On cold mornings use the app to precondition the car while it is plugged in and that means that your range won’t be affected by having to heat up the car initially.

    Thanks for the input, the car is literally 4 days old so I’m still getting used to the idea, since my last post the 17 KM dropped to 15KM ( stationary, not plugged but 100% battery) that figure then changed to 20, 22 then around 10 am became 27Km before I drove.Not sure if any of this make sense! But I’m sharing my experience for the sake of discussion
    Also which app are you using to check your car BMW connected or my BMW?
    In your experience at which speed does the petrol kick in?


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