Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

Seth Brundle · 24-03-2021 10:56AM

stabaak wrote: »

I’m not contradicting myself at all ,people should have a CHOICE of what mode of transport they use it’s not up to u to dictate how they move around or demonise/ car shame people.
And just to correct u of course the congestion is due to lay out of quays. . Two lanes going into one is always going to have a knock on effect.
Glad there is no plane to force me out of my car so il CHOOSE to use my old 3 litre diesel car as my mode of transport when it suits me.

You obviously didn't read my post. I didn't dictate to anyone. I even said the following...

Nonetheless, I'm not aware of any plan to force you out of your car

However, whilst it is not about removing someone's choice to use their car, sustainable transport planning will involve prioritisation of efficient forms of transport and de-prioritisation of the inefficient modes which principally include the car. This is happening across the world in all progressive cities.

As for traffic congestion, like I said, it has nothing to do with the layout and all to do with the number of people who choose to drive their cars into the city. For example, at 3am the number of people driving is low so you don't see traffic congestion. It's not rocket science.

beauf · 24-03-2021 10:57AM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Y...
As for traffic congestion, like I said, it has nothing to do with the layout and all to do with the number of people who choose to drive their cars into the city. For example, at 3am the number of people driving is low so you don't see traffic congestion. It's not rocket science.

Traffic congestion often also has to do with layout. I don't know abut the quays specifically.

Seth Brundle · 24-03-2021 10:57AM

stabaak wrote: »

Il correct myself and add that there was congestion before the new lay out of quays but it certainly got worse when they altered the lanes.

You mean when they prioritised busses over cars so that they could transport larger volumes of people into town quickly?
Expect a lot more of that to come by the way (and not just in Dublin)!

24-03-2021 11:06AM

beauf wrote: »

There's been no parking on chesterfield ave for a year, and people are still complaining about the traffic and parking usually at the weekends.

..and yet you still going on about commuters and chesterfield ave.

Change the record.

There is no need for anyone to be complaining about parking for the last 12 months. There is no issue with.parking during covid. None at all. I think I'm as entitled as anyone else in here to have an opinion on non covid times Phoenix park.

I'm not going to 'change the record' when it is an important part of the normal times issues, and you being bad mannered won't stop me.

liamog · 24-03-2021 11:09AM

bubblypop wrote: »

There is no need for anyone to be complaining about parking for the last 12 months. There is no issue with.parking during covid. None at all. I think I'm as entitled as anyone else in here to have an opinion on non covid times Phoenix park.

There's been huge problems with parking in Phoenix Park since the removal of parking on Chesterfield Avenue, why do you think there are so many people abandoning cars on verges and grassy areas.

If you remove 1200 spaces at a time when there is increased visitor demand due to everything else being closed, it's not surprising that the remaining parking facilities for park users become overwhelmed.

24-03-2021 11:22AM

liamog wrote: »

There's been huge problems with parking in Phoenix Park since the removal of parking on Chesterfield Avenue, why do you think there are so many people abandoning cars on verges and grassy areas.

If you remove 1200 spaces at a time when there is increased visitor demand due to everything else being closed, it's not surprising that the remaining parking facilities for park users become overwhelmed.

Because the drivers are lazy. Drive in, dump the car on the first grass verges they see, even though the car parks are not half full. It's like that any nice weekend.
Stop the parking on the grass and force them into carparks.
There is plenty of room

Hurrache · 24-03-2021 11:37AM

liamog wrote: »

This certainly does not match my experience of Phoenix Park, by far the biggest issue with traffic around the park near rush hour is caused by the sheer amount of cars on roads commuting around and through it, the people who chose to park in the park barely add to the problem at all.

As to making the park unusable, fair enough if your plans were to have a picnic on the hard shoulder of chesterfield avenue, but if you intend to venture every slightly further into the many acres of parkland then it's a non issue.

The people who use the park as a carpark add to the the congestion at rush hour because they all hop into their cars and join and extend the queues of traffic.

I used to have two scheduled midweek activities a week in the park and I'd always organise work so I can cycle in after work rather than drop by in the car after meetings etc. It was, and still is, ridiculous for a park but expected for rush hours on a main route in and out of the city.

When I changed jobs I'd regularly finish a bit earlier and wouldn't bother driving to the park inside of the 2 hour rush 'hour' as it was just too much hassle.

That's what I mean by being unusable during rush hour. All is fine if you're already there, but a totally different story if you want to go there during that period to the point you'll find an alternative, St Catherines Park being one of them.

liamog · 24-03-2021 11:45AM

Hurrache wrote: »

The people who use the park as a carpark add to the the congestion at rush hour because they all hop into their cars and join and extend the queues of traffic.

I used to have two scheduled midweek activities a week in the park and I'd always organise work so I can cycle in after work rather than drop by in the car after meetings etc. It was, and still is, ridiculous for a park but expected for rush hours on a main route in and out of the city.

Unfortunately Phoenix Park is now, and will remain a main route out of the city towards Dublin 15. It would be interesting to see traffic statistics between 5 and 7 on Chesterfield Avenue, I suspect it's an order of magnitude higher than any parking commuters.

beauf · 24-03-2021 12:20PM

bubblypop wrote: »

There is no need for anyone to be complaining about parking for the last 12 months. There is no issue with.parking during covid.....

..and yet people still are...including yourself...

bubblypop wrote: »

Because the drivers are lazy. Drive in, dump the car on the first grass verges they see, even though the car parks are not half full. It's like that any nice weekend.
Stop the parking on the grass and force them into carparks.
There is plenty of room

24-03-2021 12:24PM

beauf wrote: »

..and yet people still are...including yourself...

There is plenty of parking. Lazy drivers won't drive to it.

Hurrache · 24-03-2021 12:25PM

liamog wrote: »

It would be interesting to see traffic statistics between 5 and 7 on Chesterfield Avenue, I suspect it's an order of magnitude higher than any parking commuters.

But the point it that parking commuters are in the same category as those who use it to drive through, they contribute to it and increase the volume during the same period.

liamog · 24-03-2021 12:27PM

So we're now at the point of people wanting less driving through the park, and complaining that people aren't driving to car parks, and that OPW shouldn't build car parks near the gates because people will use them to park their cars.

Does that about sum up the posistion?

liamog · 24-03-2021 12:29PM

Hurrache wrote: »

But the point it that parking commuters are in the same category as those who use it to drive through, they contribute to it and increase the volume during the same period.

Yes but if 20,000 car's drive through the park in rush hour, and 600 of them were commuters who parked in the park, then the issue is not the 600 commuters who were parked in the park.

beauf · 24-03-2021 12:38PM

Hurrache wrote: »

But the point it that parking commuters are in the same category as those who use it to drive through, they contribute to it and increase the volume during the same period.

Still banging on about commuters ...

All traffic contributes to it, even those going for a walk or whatever. Its not just commuters. The only solution to that is ban all cars. So your only issue there is there enough public support for that vs the public support for keeping car access.

If you ban all cars you throttle the existing route in and out of D15 (and its really a wider catchment than that, its fed from meath, kildare etc. ) and into by about 40%. Plus whatever cross traffic uses it, which is on a similar volume.

That's the political pressure you have to overturn.

24-03-2021 12:47PM

liamog wrote: »

So we're now at the point of people wanting less driving through the park, and complaining that people aren't driving to car parks, and that OPW shouldn't build car parks near the gates because people will use them to park their cars.

Does that about sum up the posistion?

Its very simple, use the park and its parking to the advantage of people going to visit the park itself.
Through journeys are secondary to persons using the park facilities.

liamog · 24-03-2021 02:07PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Its very simple, use the park and its parking to the advantage of people going to visit the park itself.
Through journeys are secondary to persons using the park facilities.

Ok so then you do support the OPW building parking facilities near the park gates so people who want to use the park can park there?

Hurrache · 24-03-2021 02:10PM

beauf wrote: »

Still banging on about commuters ...

[sigh] No, no I'm not. I'm clarifying the point I made and haven't made any additional ones about commuters.

Now if you didn't get a rush of blood to your head in order to make a smart comment, you'd see that.

24-03-2021 02:20PM

liamog wrote: »

Ok so then you do support the OPW building parking facilities near the park gates so people who want to use the park can park there?

I would prefer the car parking facilities to be in the park rather at the edges.
Car parks inside the gates only encourages commuters to park there

24-03-2021 02:35PM

liamog wrote: »

Ok so then you do support the OPW building parking facilities near the park gates so people who want to use the park can park there?

They don’t have to be beside the gates, but the gates should provide access to car parks rather than access to through routes.

And cars parked on verges should be towed. Zero tolerance like in Richmond park in London

liamog · 24-03-2021 02:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

They don’t have to be beside the gates, but the gates should provide access to car parks rather than access to through routes.

And cars parked on verges should be towed. Zero tolerance like in Richmond park in London

Richmond is a good example, the car parks are near the gates, except for a couple in the middle where they are disabled parking only.

I'm all in favour of reducing traffic through and in the park, I believe the best way to do this is with car parks on the periphery. I don't believe commuters will park at a Castleknock Gate/Kockmaroon Gate/Ashtown Gate and hike to the Main Gate to get onto the Luas into town.

24-03-2021 02:41PM

liamog wrote: »

Richmond is a good example, the car parks are near the gates, except for a couple in the middle where they are disabled parking only.

I'm all in favour of reducing traffic through and in the park, I believe the best way to do this is with car parks on the periphery. I don't believe commuters will park at a Castleknock Gate/Kockmaroon Gate/Ashtown Gate and hike to the Main Gate to get onto the Luas into town.

That's true, I can only go by the way it was before covid, when the car parks just off Chesterfield Ave were full everyday before 9am with commuters parking there.

24-03-2021 02:51PM

liamog wrote: »

Richmond is a good example, the car parks are near the gates, except for a couple in the middle where they are disabled parking only.

I'm all in favour of reducing traffic through and in the park, I believe the best way to do this is with car parks on the periphery. I don't believe commuters will park at a Castleknock Gate/Kockmaroon Gate/Ashtown Gate and hike to the Main Gate to get onto the Luas into town.

Some of the car parks arent beside the gates but are all pretty close, and 2/3 of the routes are now blocked other than access to these car parks. Only the Richmond to Kingston road is open for through traffic, and the Roehampton to Richmond road is only open on weekdays. The rest is blocked, and after the consultation ends is looking likely to stay that way.

Car parking spaces are broadly comparable to Phoenix Park (1,500 spaces, and is a bigger park with a larger catchment area).

The principles I think can be very clearly applied to Phoenix Park.....1) zero tolerance of illegal parking 2) only selected roads for through routes (only one through route at the weekend) and 3) gates to provide access to car parks only

VonLuck · 05-04-2021 04:15PM

Phoenix Park gates to be rehung by the end of July: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/phoenix-park-gates-set-to-be-rehung-after-800-000-restoration-1.4529113

Larbre34 · 06-04-2021 11:34AM

I trust they will be well hung.

trellheim · 06-04-2021 12:34PM

North road closing from 12 April for 3 months from Garda HQ to Ratra House. No pedestrian access either. See https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/077b1-phoenix-park-north-road-essential-repair-roadworks-april-12-to-june-18-2021/

06-04-2021 01:17PM

This will be a disaster!
But suppose it needs doing...

Joe4321 · 06-04-2021 01:30PM

Why was this not done as essential work while the park had reduced capacity, now when things are opening up you have a major section of road closed both to traffic and pedestrians, what a joke, can no one plan anything in this country.

beauf · 06-04-2021 01:39PM

They could do one side and leave the other side open. But they will close the entire road while only working on one small section at at time. Least that's what they normally do.They've even closed it before for roadworks that weren't even on this road.

They are consistent I'll give them that.

What they should do is close the road and not resurface it. Let it return to grass and wild meadow. Plant trees and make a new woodland adventure trail.

beauf · 06-04-2021 01:41PM

Joe4321 wrote: »

Why was this not done as essential work while the park had reduced capacity, now when things are opening up you have a major section of road closed both to traffic and pedestrians, what a joke, can no one plan anything in this country.

Perhaps this was the plan. Their objective might not be the same as yours.

Joe4321 · 06-04-2021 01:45PM

It's clear that there plan is to drive cars out of the park, next we will here from the cyclists about how there are too many cars on Chesterfield avenue and demand that all cars be band from the park while this resurfacing is been done, there does not seem to be any joined up thinking in this country and that's very evident from the last year.

Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

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