Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Hellrazer · 04-04-2021 03:27PM

Gael23 wrote: »

This has huge ramifications if successful https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0404/1207878-courts-quarantine/

I for one hope they win the case and get this MHQ gone.

It`ll be another kick in b***ox for the government.
Ive a feeling this government is going to fall very soon. Way too much cracks appearing in the coalition.

Van.Bosch · 04-04-2021 03:30PM

Gael23 wrote: »

This has huge ramifications if successful https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0404/1207878-courts-quarantine/

Yes - going to be very interesting.

If people don’t have the money and have kids to look after ( I know you could argue they shouldn’t travel in the first place etc etc) then is jailing them legal? Let’s see

You could travel to somewhere for a funeral, the country be added to the MHQ list and then what? The cosmetic surgery in Dubai in this case makes it easier to judge.

04-04-2021 03:31PM

faceman wrote: »

Not true anymore

https://twitter.com/groganrichard/status/1378623710496747521?s=21

Thats not relevant at all Face. Nor is it gospel vecause Richard Grogan says so

04-04-2021 03:32PM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Yes - going to be very interesting.

If people don’t have the money and have kids to look after ( I know you could argue they shouldn’t travel in the first place etc etc) then is jailing them legal? Let’s see

You could travel to somewhere for a funeral, the country be added to the MHQ list and then what, the cosmetic surgery in Dubai makes it easier to judge.

again for those that have lost the ability to read entire articles and engage in critical thought:

There is a waiver and deferel system in place for those in financial need. Theres zero ****ing chance of these two paying

Van.Bosch · 04-04-2021 03:34PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

again for those that have lost the ability to read entire articles and engage in critical thought:

There is a waiver and deferel system in place for those in financial need. Theres zero ****ing chance of these two paying

Yeah fair enough but what if you have care responsibilities? I’m not saying I agree but the judicial review will be interesting.

04-04-2021 03:36PM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Yeah fair enough but what if you have care responsibilities? I’m not saying I agree but the judicial review will be interesting.

then you better make plans before getting on a plane AFTER mandatory quarantine has been introduced.

What if a criminal has a child to mind? No detention for them either?

Sure lets just say all parents can now ignore tha law.

Anyway, the review is into the bail, not the law itself or the hotel

"Counsel said that the focus of the inquiry relates to his clients' dissatisfaction with the bail hearing and the "draconian and disproportionate" conditions imposed on them by the district court."

titan18 · 04-04-2021 03:39PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

again for those that have lost the ability to read entire articles and engage in critical thought:

There is a waiver and deferel system in place for those in financial need. Theres zero ****ing chance of these two paying

Shoes on their feet would cover a fair amount of it. Guaranteed they have more money than being declared.

04-04-2021 03:40PM

titan18 wrote: »

Shoes on their feet would cover a fair amount of it. Guaranteed they have more money than being declared.

I think we are very much in agreement on that score

dalyboy · 04-04-2021 03:42PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

I for one hope they win the case and get this MHQ gone.

It`ll be another kick in b***ox for the government.
Ive a feeling this government is going to fall very soon. Way too much cracks appearing in the coalition.

It’s looking like a game of jenga as each day passes .

ZX7R · 04-04-2021 03:45PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

then you better make plans before getting on a plane AFTER mandatory quarantine has been introduced.

What if a criminal has a child to mind? No detention for them either?

Sure lets just say all parents can now ignore tha law.

Anyway, the review is into the bail, not the law itself or the hotel

"Counsel said that the focus of the inquiry relates to his clients' dissatisfaction with the bail hearing and the "draconian and disproportionate" conditions imposed on them by the district court."

The inquiry is into the bail,
there council was granted a challenge under the Constitution in relation to the laws used in the charges brought against them ,this is what could have implications to mandatory quarantine, if the laws in place for breaking it or non compliance are found to be wanting it will case big implications.
Maybe you should read the article again

Gael23 · 04-04-2021 03:49PM

Yes I imagine it would bring dune the government. At the very least trigger the resignation of Simon Covenney abs SD

04-04-2021 03:56PM

MHQ is reprehensible and repugnant to the principle of equal rights for individuals across multiple dimensions.

On what basis is it legally justified to detain those who are healthy when those who are unhealthy are not detained?

On what basis is it legally justified to force detainees, healthy or not, to pay the costs of their detention when those who are COVID-positive suffer no detention or costs?

On what basis is it legally justified to detain arrivals from countries that manifestly have fewer cases of infection and higher rates of vaccination, while having no detention requirements from more infectious countries?

I should think the answers are obvious. Yet none of the opinion columnists whose vocation it is to challenge bad governance and champion the oppressed have anything to say about it. We have healthy mothers, grandmothers, children, babies and fathers being met by the focking Army in the Republic of Ireland and brought to a detention facility which they must pay for. I don't care what other countries are doing it; it's wrong, and chilling, and mob rule. And frankly, there's something wrong with anyone who doesn't bristle at the thought of it.

dalyboy · 04-04-2021 04:02PM

This x 10,000
Very well summed up

faceman · 04-04-2021 04:21PM

titan18 wrote: »

Shoes on their feet would cover a fair amount of it. Guaranteed they have more money than being declared.

Why would you guarantee that?

Did they tell you?

Are you their accountant?

Are you going guarantor for them?

Are you making a bias assumption based on where they are from, the social status and social background?

Gwan, you are aren't you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXlHKTPfLVA

Blut2 · 04-04-2021 04:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

MHQ is reprehensible and repugnant to the principle of equal rights for individuals across multiple dimensions.

On what basis is it legally justified to detain those who are healthy when those who are unhealthy are not detained?

On what basis is it legally justified to force detainees, healthy or not, to pay the costs of their detention when those who are COVID-positive suffer no detention or costs?

On what basis is it legally justified to detain arrivals from countries that manifestly have fewer cases of infection and higher rates of vaccination, while having no detention requirements from more infectious countries?

I should think the answers are obvious. Yet none of the opinion columnists whose vocation it is to challenge bad governance and champion the oppressed have anything to say about it. We have healthy mothers, grandmothers, children, babies and fathers being met by the focking Army in the Republic of Ireland and brought to a detention facility which they must pay for. I don't care what other countries are doing it; it's wrong, and chilling, and mob rule. And frankly, there's something wrong with anyone who doesn't bristle at the thought of it.

+1. It doesn't make any sense logically, statistically, or morally. Hopefully the high court slaps it down now.

I'm not a historical FG voter, but I have to say seeing Leo & Coveney at least try to keep the government acting with some logic in its decisions is good to see. They're currently the only thing standing between us and FF/Stephen Donnelly (and apparently most of the opposition parties) engaging in more and more destructive behaviour, with absolutely no basis in science or fact.

FG will be getting votes from me going forward because of this.

Gael23 · 04-04-2021 04:29PM

Can you still be fined or would this case put a stop to that also?

04-04-2021 04:31PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Can you still be fined or would this case put a stop to that also?

Two different things. You can always take a judicial review on the fines if you think they are unconstitutional though.

04-04-2021 04:32PM

ZX7R wrote: »

The inquiry is into the bail,
there council was granted a challenge under the Constitution in relation to the laws used in the charges brought against them ,this is what could have implications to mandatory quarantine, if the laws in place for breaking it or non compliance are found to be wanting it will case big implications.
Maybe you should read the article again

It's that a joke? I have read it. It's 100% into their detention in custody and not the law itself.

Alast · 04-04-2021 04:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

MHQ is reprehensible and repugnant to the principle of equal rights for individuals across multiple dimensions.

On what basis is it legally justified to detain those who are healthy when those who are unhealthy are not detained?

On what basis is it legally justified to force detainees, healthy or not, to pay the costs of their detention when those who are COVID-positive suffer no detention or costs?

On what basis is it legally justified to detain arrivals from countries that manifestly have fewer cases of infection and higher rates of vaccination, while having no detention requirements from more infectious countries?

I should think the answers are obvious. Yet none of the opinion columnists whose vocation it is to challenge bad governance and champion the oppressed have anything to say about it. We have healthy mothers, grandmothers, children, babies and fathers being met by the focking Army in the Republic of Ireland and brought to a detention facility which they must pay for. I don't care what other countries are doing it; it's wrong, and chilling, and mob rule. And frankly, there's something wrong with anyone who doesn't bristle at the thought of it.

Couldn't agree more.

Also the demonization of the woman whom came back from UAE is appalling and needs to stop.

faceman · 04-04-2021 04:38PM

Further highlighting the farce in how countries are selected for the list.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/twelve-states-on-hotel-quarantine-list-have-covid-incidence-rates-of-below-10-1106470.html

04-04-2021 04:56PM

Blut2 wrote: »

+1. It doesn't make any sense logically, statistically, or morally. Hopefully the high court slaps it down now.

I'm not a historical FG voter, but I have to say seeing Leo & Coveney at least try to keep the government acting with some logic in its decisions is good to see. They're currently the only thing standing between us and FF/Stephen Donnelly (and apparently most of the opposition parties) engaging in more and more destructive behaviour, with absolutely no basis in science or fact.

FG will be getting votes from me going forward because of this.

I have been a FG voter since the 2002 General Election, but no more.

- Their foreign affairs minister might object to aspects of MHQ but he hasn’t been strong enough to force the issue.

- Their justice minister has denied the spouses and parents of Irish citizens visit- and long-stay visas, meaning they cannot accompany their Irish family members to Ireland. This is very distressing for Irish families abroad.

- Their education minister personalized an attack on young UL students a few weeks ago, yet was silent on other blatant COVID breaches by other elements.

- When I requested my local FG TD to ask a parliamentary question on the topic of spousal visas, he declined, no doubt scared ****less of embarrassing his colleagues in the Dáil.

Something is very wrong in the party. Their top talent are too young, too lacking in life experience, and too beholden to whatever happens to be trending on Twitter. I would have seen them previously as the antithesis of Sinn Fein - a party for the pragmatists, for centrists, and those who hold more conventional values.

I’ve said it before, I don’t know where I’ll cast my vote next time, but I know where it won’t go. It won’t go to FG, FF, SF, SDs, Labour, or any of the zero COVID collectivist fanatics.

If a good Independent candidate stands, I might support them.

Micky 32 · 04-04-2021 05:11PM

faceman wrote: »

Further highlighting the farce in how countries are selected for the list.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/twelve-states-on-hotel-quarantine-list-have-covid-incidence-rates-of-below-10-1106470.html

One of the reasons of my concern for the future of non essential travel. Too much obsession of the variants in government. They won’t let go of this for many years. I think MHQ is here to stay and many more countries will be added within the next 6 months. Can anyone really see the cowardly government ever letting go of this?

a clanger · 04-04-2021 05:12PM

While this is a travel thread its worth remembering that SD who is dictating policy got 7.7% first pref votes and was elected on the 15th count after failing to make the quota! You can't blame the electorate and this guy now controls/influences most aspects of out lives ...
While the DFA intervened with regard to MHQ perhaps the most notable absence was Eamonn Ryann from the DOT!

titan18 · 04-04-2021 05:12PM

faceman wrote: »

Why would you guarantee that?

Did they tell you?

Are you their accountant?

Are you going guarantor for them?

Are you making a bias assumption based on where they are from, the social status and social background?

Gwan, you are aren't you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXlHKTPfLVA

I mean they were able to fly twice to Dubai, pay for accomodation there, and have designer fashion shoes. That clearly isn't all on being done on single parents allowance.

Blut2 · 04-04-2021 05:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I have been a FG voter since the 2002 General Election, but no more.

- Their foreign affairs minister might object to aspects of MHQ but he hasn’t been strong enough to force the issue.

- Their justice minister has denied the spouses and parents of Irish citizens visit- and long-stay visas, meaning they cannot accompany their Irish family members to Ireland. This is very distressing for Irish families abroad.

- Their education minister personalized an attack on young UL students a few weeks ago, yet was silent on other blatant COVID breaches by other elements.

- When I requested my local FG TD to ask a parliamentary question on the topic of spousal visas, he declined, no doubt scared ****less of embarrassing his colleagues in the Dáil.

Something is very wrong in the party. Their top talent are too young, too lacking in life experience, and too beholden to whatever happens to be trending on Twitter. I would have seen them previously as the antithesis of Sinn Fein - a party for the pragmatists, for centrists, and those who hold more conventional values.

I’ve said it before, I don’t know where I’ll cast my vote next time, but I know where it won’t go. It won’t go to FG, FF, SF, SDs, Labour, or any of the zero COVID collectivist fanatics.

If a good Independent candidate stands, I might support them.

Those are all fair points. And to be clear, I wouldn't be claiming FG have done well in all of this. But rather they're the best of a bad bunch.

FF, SF, Lab, the SocDems and PBP have all been consistently calling for longer, stricter restrictions. That mostly have no basis in statistics or science. FG have been the only party even daring to question things and apply some science to things. Not as much as they should have, but more than the others at least.

Short of any other parties coming along FG are the ones least likely to try to implement an insane zerocovid agenda at least. So its at least better to have them in government than any of the others...

faceman · 04-04-2021 05:57PM

titan18 wrote: »

I mean they were able to fly twice to Dubai, pay for accomodation there, and have designer fashion shoes. That clearly isn't all on being done on single parents allowance.

Are they on trial for the shoes they wear and why is that important when it comes to breaching the Health Act?

titan18 · 04-04-2021 06:06PM

faceman wrote: »

Are they on trial for the shoes they wear and why is that important when it comes to breaching the Health Act?

If you can afford them, you can afford the quarantine imo.

faceman · 04-04-2021 06:08PM

titan18 wrote: »

If you can afford them, you can afford the quarantine imo.

Completely irrelevant

titan18 · 04-04-2021 06:11PM

faceman wrote: »

Completely irrelevant

We'll agree to disagree then cos I don't see it as irrelevant.

Red Silurian · 04-04-2021 06:16PM

titan18 wrote: »

I mean they were able to fly twice to Dubai, pay for accomodation there, and have designer fashion shoes. That clearly isn't all on being done on single parents allowance.

There's talk that CAB and revenue are going to get involved in this one, watch this space

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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