Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Klonker · 28-03-2021 12:37AM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

So what is the current and possible short term future for us who would like to travel in the EU in the next few months.

So right now we have a not to partake in non essential travel advisory from NPHET/DFA. This has been in place for a year now but has been made even more stringent with a €500/€2,000 fine for attempting to leave the country for non essential travel. Ordinarily this would destroy holiday plans for Summer 2021 but....

The EU are keen to reopen intra EU travel from June and are pushing along the roll out of the Digital Green Travel Certificate which can be obtained by meeting one of the following 3 criteria

1) Proof of vaccination
2) Proof of a positive COVID diagnosis and a full recovery within the previous 180 days
3) A negative test result before travelling.

So the big question remains is what will Ireland’s response to this travel cert be?Personally I believe the non essential travel advisory will remain in place for Summer 2021 but the key for me is what happens to the fine? If the travel cert comes in and the fine goes then that travel advisory is not worth the paper it’s written on. People will travel. However if the fine stays in place then that would really deter people from travelling. But could Ireland justify having that fine yet having the travel cert in place to the EU Commission?

And finally, and I don’t know the answer to this, is the airport fine linked to Level 5? If we leave L5 does the fine go.

I actually predict that Summer 2021 will be quite similar to Summer 2020 from an Irish perspective with a non essential travel advisory in place, but a key difference is the travel cert will be in.

Yeah it's a bit unknown at the moment. Another issue is even if Ireland keep the travel fine but there is no travel restrictions within Ireland at that time, take June as an example. What can they do to stop people travelling to the North and flying from there?

M_Murphy57 · 28-03-2021 06:14AM

Klonker wrote: »

Yeah it's a bit unknown at the moment. Another issue is even if Ireland keep the travel fine but there is no travel restrictions within Ireland at that time, take June as an example. What can they do to stop people travelling to the North and flying from there?

Literally nothing.

Happydays2020 · 28-03-2021 06:50AM

Klonker wrote: »

Yeah it's a bit unknown at the moment. Another issue is even if Ireland keep the travel fine but there is no travel restrictions within Ireland at that time, take June as an example. What can they do to stop people travelling to the North and flying from there?

Expect pressure to come on https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-continues-to-pressure-belgium-to-put-an-end-to-travel-ban/

acequion · 28-03-2021 10:19AM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Expect pressure to come on https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-continues-to-pressure-belgium-to-put-an-end-to-travel-ban/

That's interesting. Thanks so much for posting that. If the noose is loosened even a little bit, it will be thanks to the EU. Just imagine if we weren't in the EU! Unthinkable.

MarkY91 · 28-03-2021 10:54AM

RobitTV wrote: »

I heard Ryanair are offering compound holidays this summer from Belfast. Children go free if you spend two weeks inside the compound in Spain. Where all the 'lager louts' and 'working class' peasants go on holiday each year.

Jet2 are offering three weeks in the 'Lanzaooo' compound in Puerto Del Carmen. All the Irish 'bear bellies' will be on show.

Thank god such a educated upper class male like myself will never enter these type of hostile environments. Literally makes me gag thinking about it.

I'd rather holiday in Syria or Afghanistan.

You sound like great craic...

RobitTV · 28-03-2021 11:06AM

MarkY91 wrote: »

You sound like great craic...

Nah I was only being sarcastic

I was just putting out there that this is the way some people think in our country. Which is a very depressing way to think.

Chris_5339762 · 28-03-2021 11:22AM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Expect pressure to come on https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-continues-to-pressure-belgium-to-put-an-end-to-travel-ban/

I wouldn't be so sure... we're not in Schengen so they don't care as much.

We might perhaps have a CTA agreement with the UK for more open travel back and forth. At least then a holiday to the south coast - Brighton or something like that could be on the cards.

faceman · 28-03-2021 11:33AM

An update from Dublin airport from Friday. My neighbours returned here to Spain from Ireland Friday night. (They live here)

They said they were grilled by the gardai at the airport. They had to prove they lived here which they didn’t expect. Once they had proof the Garda tone softened. Others weren’t so lucky they said

They pointed out there is no Garda checks at the fast pass entrance.

Meanwhile Alicante airport is expecting 15,000 peolle to arrive from across Europe this weekend for Easter holidays. Mostly German, with I Berlin accounting for most travellers.

There isn’t a negative fuss about it in the media and no one has been screaming for quarantine. The fines and punitive measures if you turn up without a test or even with a positive test aren’t worth risking.

acequion · 28-03-2021 12:07PM

faceman wrote: »

An update from Dublin airport from Friday. My neighbours returned here to Spain from Ireland Friday night. (They live here)

They said they were grilled by the gardai at the airport. They had to prove they lived here which they didn’t expect. Once they had proof the Garda tone softened. Others weren’t so lucky they said

They pointed out there is no Garda checks at the fast pass entrance.

Meanwhile Alicante airport is expecting 15,000 peolle to arrive from across Europe this weekend for Easter holidays. Mostly German, with I Berlin accounting for most travellers.

There isn’t a negative fuss about it in the media and no one has been screaming for quarantine. The fines and punitive measures if you turn up without a test or even with a positive test aren’t worth risking.

That we have been reduced to the above, being subjected to a grilling by the national police force while going about your business, really is incredible when you seriously think about it. Along with the images this weekend of healthy law abiding Covid negative people being frogmarched by the army to detention centres. Anybody who claims that we are not living in a very repressive environment is delusional. And anybody pontificating that this is proper order needs to take a hard look at themselves.

I have a good friend who grew up in East Berlin during communism. She said life was actually ok there once you obeyed the repressive laws without question and didn't fall foul of the authorities. Ok, we won't get tortured by any Stasi here, but her accounts of life in repression are not a million miles away from where we're at right now. Eerily similar. Endure the straitjacket we're living in for as long as the authorities wish to impose it and you'll be grand. Step out of line. Decide for instance you want/need to leave the country and you get into all sorts of bother not to mention the wrath of the "we're all in this misery together" mob.

Utter madness. Yes we all know that there is a pandemic and restrictions on travel are necessary. But when restrictions become tyrannical as they have done here, it actually is very worrying.

Donald Trump · 28-03-2021 12:11PM

faceman wrote: »

An update from Dublin airport from Friday. My neighbours returned here to Spain from Ireland Friday night. (They live here)

They said they were grilled by the gardai at the airport. They had to prove they lived here which they didn’t expect. Once they had proof the Garda tone softened. Others weren’t so lucky they said

They pointed out there is no Garda checks at the fast pass entrance.

Meanwhile Alicante airport is expecting 15,000 peolle to arrive from across Europe this weekend for Easter holidays. Mostly German, with I Berlin accounting for most travellers.

There isn’t a negative fuss about it in the media and no one has been screaming for quarantine. The fines and punitive measures if you turn up without a test or even with a positive test aren’t worth risking.

I suppose you don't see a negative fuss about Spain in the media if your "media" consists only of reading boards.ie . Just because you are ignorant of something does not mean it is not happening

Spaniards are seething as French and German tourists descend on vacation spots, while locals can’t travel between the country’s regions.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-holiday-tourism-coronavirus-travel-restrictions/

Donald Trump · 28-03-2021 12:12PM

acequion wrote: »

That we have been reduced to the above, being subjected to a grilling by the national police force while going about your business, really is incredible when you seriously think about it. Along with the images this weekend of healthy law abiding Covid negative people being frogmarched by the army to detention centres. Anybody who claims that we are not living in a very repressive environment is delusional. And anybody pontificating that this is proper order needs to take a hard look at themselves.

I have a good friend who grew up in East Berlin during communism. She said life was actually ok there once you obeyed the repressive laws without question and didn't fall foul of the authorities. Ok, we won't get tortured by any Stasi here, but her accounts of life in repression are not a million miles away from where we're at right now. Eerily similar. Endure the straitjacket we're living in for as long as the authorities wish to impose it and you'll be grand. Step out of line. Decide for instance you want/need to leave the country and you get into all sorts of bother not to mention the wrath of the "we're all in this misery together" mob.

Utter madness. Yes we all know that there is a pandemic and restrictions on travel are necessary. But when restrictions become tyrannical as they have done here, it actually is very worrying.

Very funny post. Satirical perchance?

acequion · 28-03-2021 12:36PM

Thank heaven for the ignore function. We all know the type of contributions we'll get from certain posters. :rolleyes:

mel123 · 28-03-2021 12:41PM

faceman wrote: »

They said they were grilled by the gardai at the airport. They had to prove they lived here which they didn’t expect. Once they had proof the Garda tone softened. Others weren’t so lucky they said
.

Seems very harsh. The others that were not so lucky, if they told Gardai they were going to a funeral abroad, what proof can you show Gardai? At least your friends could probably root out electricity bills or something.

Hector Savage · 28-03-2021 01:03PM

Anyone see the video of the GARDS pulling the guy out of his car and assaulting him at dublin airport ?

absolute scum, and the people cheering it on, incredible.

My fool of a dad is cheering all this on, he is literally cheering on the Jackboot thugs that will never allow him to see his grandkids again!!!

Yet he is really really missing them , it's incredible, Stockholm syndrome.

He goes on about NPHET too like they are the oracle of knowledge and facts.

acequion · 28-03-2021 01:17PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Anyone see the video of the GARDS pulling the guy out of his car and assaulting him at dublin airport ?

absolute scum, and the people cheering it on, incredible.

My fool of a dad is cheering all this on, he is literally cheering on the Jackboot thugs that will never allow him to see his grandkids again!!!

Yet he is really really missing them , it's incredible, Stockholm syndrome.

He goes on about NPHET too like they are the oracle of knowledge and facts.

The problem is the level of brainwashing that has gone on. Irish people have always tended to compliantly follow the leader and reserve the wrath for their neighbour who dares to be different and dares to questions or god forbid, defy. And it's easier to follow the leader if you allow yourself to be blinded by the dogma. Like I said earlier, it's scary.

Thankfully, my 90 year mother has never bought into the hysteria and righteousness and has used her own judgement throughout. So not all are victims of the Stockholm syndrome, which is heartening.

Father Hernandez · 28-03-2021 01:25PM

acequion wrote: »

The problem is the level of brainwashing that has gone on. Irish people have always tended to compliantly follow the leader and reserve the wrath for their neighbour who dares to be different and dares to questions or god forbid, defy. And it's easier to follow the leader if you allow yourself to be blinded by the dogma. Like I said earlier, it's scary.

Thankfully, my 90 year mother has never bought into the hysteria and righteousness and has used her own judgement throughout. So not all are victims of the Stockholm syndrome, which is heartening.

You could point to the Catholic Church and it's dominance over people and society for years and years for an example of this.

Whilst I agree with following the 'rules' to keep myself and others safe (some family are front line), there are so many things that need to be questioned and don't make sense.

A lockdown level 5 for the first 3 months whilst many small and local businesses that could reopen will most likely go out of business, MHQ brought in for some countries, but not others 12 months after the pandemic began, scandals like we have seen in the last week, the list goes on.

It's no wonder Joe public is deciding to do their own thing when there has been little to no leadership since day one, NPHET being made out to be like gods, Tony Holohan being made out to be a medical expert 3 years after the CervicalCheck scandal, Simon Harris literally took down the last government and has a serious chance of being the next Taoiseach, as above, the list goes on.

faceman · 28-03-2021 01:54PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

I suppose you don't see a negative fuss about Spain in the media if your "media" consists only of reading boards.ie . Just because you are ignorant of something does not mean it is not happening

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-holiday-tourism-coronavirus-travel-restrictions/

Oh I follow the Spanish news. I have to. But even in that article there are no calls for mandatory quarantine

I can’t travel 20 minutes by car in to the next region yet you can fly from Ireland or Germany or anywhere else in the EU. Difference is though that people have to get tested before flying.

And for the scumbag holidaymakers, they should be treated harshly by the law.

MarkY91 · 28-03-2021 03:45PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

I suppose you don't see a negative fuss about Spain in the media if your "media" consists only of reading boards.ie . Just because you are ignorant of something does not mean it is not happening

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-holiday-tourism-coronavirus-travel-restrictions/

This is exactly what my Spanish friend siad, she was complaining about French tourists flocking into Spain on holidays.

acequion · 28-03-2021 04:47PM

MarkY91 wrote: »

This is exactly what my Spanish friend siad, she was complaining about French tourists flocking into Spain on holidays.

Righteousness, begrudgery, curtain twitching and such human vices aren't just the preserve of the Irish. You get such people everywhere just as you get open minded and tolerant people everywhere.

I think two things have magnified it in Ireland. The smallness of the country and the parochial mentality which is more entrenched here on an island which had until very recently a very homogeneous population. And secondly, the ability of the Irish media to capitalise on that essential narrowness and successfully manage to have us all turning on each other by master manipulation. I have experienced no other country where everyone is so obsessive about any one thing and so inclined towards group think. Larger countries with multiple borders seem to be much more open and diverse.

Which I think explains why Faceman doesn't get that feeling of collective outrage in Spain over foreign tourists coming at Easter. It doesn't mean there is none. Of course there will be from some, but there will be as many more just shrugging their shoulders because they have other stuff to be interested in and worked up about.

Largeness, diversity, variety. A lot to be said for it.

Donald Trump · 28-03-2021 04:56PM

acequion wrote: »

Righteousness, begrudgery, curtain twitching and such human vices aren't just the preserve of the Irish. You get such people everywhere just as you get open minded and tolerant people everywhere.

I think two things have magnified it in Ireland. The smallness of the country and the parochial mentality which is more entrenched here on an island which had until very recently a very homogeneous population. And secondly, the ability of the Irish media to capitalise on that essential narrowness and successfully manage to have us all turning on each other by master manipulation. I have experienced no other country where everyone is so obsessive about any one thing and so inclined towards group think. Larger countries with multiple borders seem to be much more open and diverse.

Which I think explains why Faceman doesn't get that feeling of collective outrage in Spain over foreign tourists coming at Easter. It doesn't mean there is none. Of course there will be from some, but there will be as many more just shrugging their shoulders because they have other stuff to be interested in and worked up about.

Largeness, diversity, variety. A lot to be said for it.

Well there is a post a few back comparing an unarmed Guard at an airport asking questions to torture under the Stasi.

Imagine that - being asked questions at an airport - by police. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

I wonder how many Academy Awards the eventual blockbuster will win? Given that Schindler's List won seven. It'll surely have to go to double figures.

dmcsweeney · 28-03-2021 05:27PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/two-who-left-hotel-quarantine-returned-to-facility-search-for-third-continues-1.4522082

I really think that a stay indoors order should be issued until this dirty foreigner is captured or shot. Why are the army not out in force looking for them? God help us all if they're not found. Stay safe out there people!

I'd love to get the CCTV footage and dub it over with the Benny Hill theme tune. I think they've already made such a b***s of the quarantine hotels that they won't be adding to the list anytime soon.

Mod: Banned

Donald Trump · 28-03-2021 05:56PM

dmcsweeney wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/two-who-left-hotel-quarantine-returned-to-facility-search-for-third-continues-1.4522082

I really think that a stay indoors order should be issued until this dirty foreigner is captured or shot. Why are the army not out in force looking for them? God help us all if they're not found. Stay safe out there people!

I'd love to get the CCTV footage and dub it over with the Benny Hill theme tune. I think they've already made such a b***s of the quarantine hotels that they won't be adding to the list anytime soon.

Well they said last on some early reports that there was an Irish citizen and a UK citizen missing.

It isn't a detention facility. There shouldn't be people physically manhandling potential "absconders". Their details are recorded and once they leave the facility before their time is up, they have committed a crime and the Guards can take over. That is the perfectly logical way to run it.

Del Griffith · 28-03-2021 06:22PM

dmcsweeney wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/two-who-left-hotel-quarantine-returned-to-facility-search-for-third-continues-1.4522082

I really think that a stay indoors order should be issued until this dirty foreigner is captured or shot. Why are the army not out in force looking for them? God help us all if they're not found. Stay safe out there people!

I'd love to get the CCTV footage and dub it over with the Benny Hill theme tune. I think they've already made such a b***s of the quarantine hotels that they won't be adding to the list anytime soon.

From the article

Mr Coveney acknowledged the frustration for people being quarantined for 14 days with only being allowed out for a walk a couple of times a day but said “this is not a straightforward process and that’s why no other country in the EU is doing it except Ireland”.

Do these morons ever consider why that might be? Simon himself saying Ireland is an outlier in the EU for the extremity of covid policy and sure hey plough on regardless ..

Golfman64 · 28-03-2021 06:25PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

From the article

Mr Coveney acknowledged the frustration for people being quarantined for 14 days with only being allowed out for a walk a couple of times a day but said “this is not a straightforward process and that’s why no other country in the EU is doing it except Ireland”.

Do these morons ever consider why that might be? Simon himself saying Ireland is an outlier in the EU for the extremity of covid policy and sure hey plough on regardless ..

It’s literally like they are proud to be destroying the country and the economy. I’m delighted to see FF being absolutely destroyed in the latest Red C poll - very deserved given their utterly shambolic performance since Martin got the helm.

fm · 28-03-2021 06:35PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

So what is the current and possible short term future for us who would like to travel in the EU in the next few months.

So right now we have a not to partake in non essential travel advisory from NPHET/DFA. This has been in place for a year now but has been made even more stringent with a €500/€2,000 fine for attempting to leave the country for non essential travel. Ordinarily this would destroy holiday plans for Summer 2021 but....

The EU are keen to reopen intra EU travel from June and are pushing along the roll out of the Digital Green Travel Certificate which can be obtained by meeting one of the following 3 criteria

1) Proof of vaccination
2) Proof of a positive COVID diagnosis and a full recovery within the previous 180 days
3) A negative test result before travelling.

So the big question remains is what will Ireland’s response to this travel cert be?Personally I believe the non essential travel advisory will remain in place for Summer 2021 but the key for me is what happens to the fine? If the travel cert comes in and the fine goes then that travel advisory is not worth the paper it’s written on. People will travel. However if the fine stays in place then that would really deter people from travelling. But could Ireland justify having that fine yet having the travel cert in place to the EU Commission?

And finally, and I don’t know the answer to this, is the airport fine linked to Level 5? If we leave L5 does the fine go.

I actually predict that Summer 2021 will be quite similar to Summer 2020 from an Irish perspective with a non essential travel advisory in place, but a key difference is the travel cert will be in.

There is an EU meeting on the 26th of April to finalise the digital travel cert so should be in place for June i hope. NPHET will look to keep home quarantine i would assume(forever) so depends on the goverment whether they will keep that in place and go against the whole idea of the cert.

afaik the fine for travel to the airport is not connected to level 5 and is in place until the end of April atm-and according to the citizens advice it still is 500 euro.When May comes around hopefully we and europe will be in a much better place and with alot of people vaccinated say by June they will want to travel

Donald Trump · 28-03-2021 08:01PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

From the article

Mr Coveney acknowledged the frustration for people being quarantined for 14 days with only being allowed out for a walk a couple of times a day but said “this is not a straightforward process and that’s why no other country in the EU is doing it except Ireland”.

Do these morons ever consider why that might be? Simon himself saying Ireland is an outlier in the EU for the extremity of covid policy and sure hey plough on regardless ..

You can also consider yourself why that might be. For example, the continent has Schengen and land borders. It is not as easy for them logistically to do it. That does not mean that they would not want to do it. Ireland has the natural advantage of being an island - admittedly with the complication of a different regime in place up North.

Del Griffith · 28-03-2021 08:28PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

You can also consider yourself why that might be. For example, the continent has Schengen and land borders. It is not as easy for them logistically to do it. That does not mean that they would not want to do it. Ireland has the natural advantage of being an island - admittedly with the complication of a different regime in place up North.

Bollox, I'm in another island country in the EU right now, the idea of imprisoning people landing here is so absurd it would be laughed out of the room.

You also rightly pointed out that Ireland has a land border up north, pretty much invalidating the original point of how 'easy' it is.

There's nothing to indicate other EU countries want to replicate the mess over here but have their hands tied by the Schengen. It's an Irish solution to.. 1.72% of a problem. And failing even at that as 3 left on day 1.

Donald Trump · 28-03-2021 08:44PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Bollox, I'm in another island country in the EU right now, the idea of imprisoning people landing here is so absurd it would be laughed out of the room.

You also rightly pointed out that Ireland has a land border up north, pretty much invalidating the original point of how 'easy' it is.

There's nothing to indicate other EU countries want to replicate the mess over here but have their hands tied by the Schengen. It's an Irish solution to.. 1.72% of a problem. And failing even at that as 3 left on day 1.

The consequences of Schengen for this issue are logistical - what would have been otherwise normal and expected border infrastructure is no longer in place to that extent. It is not that there is an absolute rule in Schengen saying that "you must never ever ever do X".

People are not being imprisoned - they are being quarantined. There was a poster on here the last day or two who was adamant that he would go to a hotel in Greece (which is situated across the road from a beach) "in a second" and stay within that hotel compound for two weeks and then return to Ireland and adhere to a 10 day quarantine if it meant he didn't have to worry about the "5km" limit.
It was in relation to a story that 200 people from Holland were doing just that. They would be brought there, be the only guests in the place, but not be allowed out of the place. Not even to walk along the beach across the road.

The Czech Republic closed it's borders in the early days. They did brilliantly. Then a few stupid political decisions messed it up for them

Del Griffith · 28-03-2021 09:12PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

The consequences of Schengen for this issue are logistical - what would have been otherwise normal and expected border infrastructure is no longer in place to that extent. It is not that there is an absolute rule in Schengen saying that "you must never ever ever do X".

The Schengen is not relevant here as there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it is. That's just your theory backed up by nothing but confirmation-bias. Again I'm in an island EU country right now - not happening. Nothing to do with Schengen.

Donald Trump wrote: »

People are not being imprisoned - they are being quarantined.

Splitting hairs. These function in exactly the same way as open prisons such as Shelton Abbey or Loghan House (but with less freedom/much more restriction). You can stay there if you don't leave the compound and comply with your sentence of detention. If you leave, the guards hunt you down, arrest you, and you go to the main prison instead.

Those places are a part of the prison system. Name these hotels what you like, but if looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc

Kramer · 28-03-2021 09:13PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

but if looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc

Then it should be swabbed, reswabbed & immediately detained for 14 days, especially if the swabs are negative

.

Just like the Irish family who all tested negative there a few days ago the local family who tested positive a few days ago & were out shopping in the supermarket last night :pac:.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Comments