Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Del Griffith wrote: »

Lol again..

So, just so we're clear...

No i

Ignoring the avalanche of good news from the UK, ignoring the fact that over 50% of the UK population has had at least 1 shot already (only March), ignoring the fact that hospitalisations and deaths are already dropping through the floor there, ignoring that they have already given indicative dates, ignoring that the EU travel pass has been passed, ignoring that the EU travel pass is being fast tracked, ignoring that Greece and Spain have already announced that they are working on opening a travel corridor with the UK to welcome British tourists back this summer, and despite the fact that even in your own linked article Hancock states the roadmap remains unchanged...

If we literally are to simply ignore ALL of that, and look at just that one little line that you've focused on, then yes perhaps it doesn't sound too good.

Fortunately most of us live in the real world and can see that European travel is hugely likely to happen now at some point this summer, outside of Ireland at least and hopefully inside Ireland too even if its via Belfast.

Honestly I'd worry now about the mental health of some posters here when the restrictions are eventually lifted. They'll be devastated.

Lol again right back at ya

Nope! and incorrect again

But So, just so we're clear...

Not to ignore reality- the Uk Unfortunately has the accolade of a death rate being amongst the top 5 countries in the world. That fortunately decreased following adopting some incredibly strict restrictions even making non essential travel illegal and have just recently increased the fines and penalties for doing so. Case numbers have reduced significantly and happily now storming ahead with first shot vaccines so fair play to them. That said in the last weeks the case numbers plateau and have risen slightly. Hopefully that's just a blip

Borris et al put have together a roadmap which notably contains provisional dates and a complex set of criteria which must be met before anything is likley to be rolled back. A review of that indicates foreign leisure travel will not be approved any time soon with a significant part of the summer 2021 looking highly unlikely from what Matt Hancock has said. And as he knows the only thing the roadmap states is that foreign travel will be reviewed. So whatever Spain and Greece (EU countries btw) may want - they may not get.
Oh and just this morning- MPs approve extending Boris Johnson's lockdown powers for six months.

As to the EU - the Commission adopted the following travel guidence for 2021  setting out actions needed to avoid a third wave. They have detailed that All non-essential travel should be strongly discouraged until the epidemiological situation has considerably improved.. When will that be I hear you ask? No one knows at this point with many EU countries facing new possible lockdowns.

If we literally are to simply ignore ALL of that, and instead engage in wishful thinking
then yes perhaps its best to keep the head in the sand or whatever

Fortunately most of us live in the real world and can see that unrestricted European non essential travel is unlikely to happen in the way some seem to be fantasising about - whether that's coming up with crazy plans of sneaking of to Belfast or any other cartoon type escapology.

Honestly I'd worry now about those taking snipes at the mental health of other posters just becsuse they don't agree with a different pov

But the funny things is that moaning and wailing about restrictions won't make some happy even if they are completely rolled back . They'll still be most likley complaining.

ninebeanrows wrote: »

Here we go the shambles of hotel quarantine being shown.

Family from Perth connecting through Dubai to Dublin all with negative COVID tests now being put into a hotel room , 5 of them.

What a joke shop.

Have you a link for that story - Seems to be highly unlikely the way its made out tbf.

Connecting flights are not subject to quarantine regulations as far as I'm aware

Connecting Passengers

Passengers who arrive in Dublin Airport solely for the purpose of boarding a connecting flight to another state, who remain airside, do not clear Customs and Immigration and who do not leave the airport are not required to provide evidence of a negative or not detected COVID-19 test result or to complete mandatory quarantine.

This is because their final destination is not Ireland, it is to a different country and state. [/quote]

https://www.dublinairport.com/covid-19/covid-19-travel-advice

Sounds like they were planning a stop-over here rather than a connecting flight.

josip wrote: »

They were connecting through Dubai not through Dublin which does required quarantine.
https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/coronavirus/general-covid-19-travel-advisory/

I gather that Dublin was their end destination.

I'm very surprised they flew out of Australia considering the strict lockdown of flights and non essential travel there unless they got an exemption

The Australian government on 24 March 2020 announced that Australians are not allowed to leave the country. This announcement also applies to dual Irish - Australian nationals and Permanent Residents wishing to depart Australia who will now need to apply for an exemption.

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/a-z-list-of-countries/australia/

Eitherway their flight carrier would have had to inform them of the need to quarantine in Ireland as a final destination with regard to any prior stop overs etc

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Restrictions on travel should be proportionate and non-discriminatory - this is certainly not the case in Ireland, where travel restrictions are clearly in favour of those entering the country, or indeed non nationals leaving the country. Whereas Irish people are prohibited from leaving. So we are clearly not in alignment from that point of view. And that's before we talk about preventing citizens from getting passports.

Reckon you need to read that in context with the entire guidelines.

theCommission adopted a Communication setting out actions needed to avoid a third wave. All non-essential travel should be strongly discouraged until the epidemiological situation has considerably improved. Restrictions on travel should be proportionate and non-discriminatory, in line with the Council Recommendation from October 2020.  Proportionate restrictions, including testing of travellers, should be maintained.

That applies to all EU countries not just Ireland btw

Irish people are not prohibited from leaving the country BTW. They are advised that all non essential travel should be avoided as per the guidelines above. Other EU countries have done the same so yes within the EU - these guidelines are applied so to be proportionate and non-discriminatory towards other EU members. It details that for all EU countries "Proportionate restrictions, including testing of travellers, should be maintained"

The EU has not sanctioned closing EU external borders so yes people can still arrive but must present with tests and / or quarantine. Without closing down the airports that's as about as good/ bad as it gets.

As for passports- Seems posters have received new ones - I believe the restrictions are on those that require additional checks etc. Emergency passports can also be applied for essential travel.

dmcsweeney wrote: »

You are correct in that non essential travel is 'advised against'. That advice just happens to come with a hefty fine attached. You are also correct in that we are not discriminating against other European residents, only our own, by again hitting them with fines for leaving whereas a non national can leave. I agree with the testing policy for inbound passengers, but not holding Irish people hostage while rolling out the old Céad míle fáilte for everyone else (bar the dirty 33).

As for the passports, I have spoken to an agent in the passport office, and they are printing a limited number of passports every week, chosen randomly. So it's a lottery. So no, they are not issuing passports to residents who require them for non essential purposes, again controlling travel.

Each EU country in alignment with those guidelines advise against non essential travel. Again all other nationalities including non eu are asked not to travel here other than for essential reasons. Non nationals also face sanctions if they do not meet travel requirements here. Bar locking them up- its difficult to see how we could force "no nationals" to stay outside arresting them and causing an international diplomatic incident. Bar closing the borders and shutting down airports - some non essential travelers will arrive and leave. But the cead mile failte - is testing and two week quarantine with fines and / or risk of imprisonment if travellers fail to do so.

As to the passports as detailed - afaik issue is limited due in part by wfh arrangements. Passports for essential travel are still being issued.

dmcsweeney wrote: »

I can see your argument, but how many other countries in Europe are fining their own citizens for leaving their country? 'Advice' is not the correct term for what Ireland is doing. It should read 'prohibited' if it carries a fine. As for non nationals, they can simply turn up at any of our airports and tell the guards they are going home. No one will stop them. On arrival they are treated the same as any Irish person entering the country. So no, we are not afforded the same rights as other European citizens. As for the passports, the one and only reason they are issuing any non essential passports is that they need to keep the printers active to avoid issues, so it's nothing to do with WFH. And when Europe relaxes travel restrictions, they'll be a lot of Irish people discriminated against once again because they'll have no passports.

With regard to differences between EU countries

Each EU country maintains its own standards for deciding whether and how citizens of third countries may enter if they are already in an EU or Schengen country. Each EU member state also decides and implements its own further measures to curb the spread of the pandemic, such as quarantines upon entry from another region or country. Local regulations also differ widely on various social distancing measures, curfews and mask-wearing requirements

It remains all non essential travel within the EU is being advised against. If we move to close EU borders to stop international/ non national travellers entry - then I reckon than that will be as part of a cross border EU decision.

https://www.dw.com/en/european-travel-restrictions-nonessential-travel-curbed/a-56350272

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Good article, thanks for sharing. But again, and I'm excluding the UK here as it's not part of the EU, no other countries are fining their own citizens for leaving or denying them passports apart from Ireland.

"The nationwide measures to curb the coronavirus have been extended until April 18, 2021. The German government is appealing urgently to all citizens to refrain from nonessential travel within the country and also abroad"

In Ireland we are advising against it, and then fining people. Big difference I'm afraid. You have clearly put a lot of research into your argument, but I'm afraid you have presented nothing that shows we are being treated equally. No issue with inbound measures, it's the outbound ones are the problem, and lets face it, the travel 'advice' won't be lifted until at least next year as a 'cover thy ass' exercise.

Yes seems to be one of the few good comprehensive ones with travel restrictions everywhere being in a state of constant flux.

Maybe to qualify "equally" and as above each EU country is allowed to put in place their own travel restrictions etc with regard to the main EU guidelines.

"Each EU country maintains its own standards for deciding whether and how citizens of third countries may enter if they are already in an EU or Schengen country. Each EU member state also decides and implements its own further measures to curb the spread of the pandemic, such as quarantines upon entry from another region or country."

And also Ireland only potentially fines those citizens who choose to engage in non essential travel. Essential travellers will not be fined. The passport thing has been explained at least in part due to wfh arrangements. I've no way to further verify that tbh.

Not being trite but the easiest way to avoid any actual fines is simply by observing the current EU advisory on non essential travel.

Would you advocate closing airports or borders in totality?

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Apologies in advance for splitting hairs here, but that is 'upon entry', and yes, Ireland is perfectly within it's rights with the measures in place inline with the statement above. I think the majority of people on here, despite the cost and inconvenience of taking tests etc, would be happy to do so a while longer to protect people while the vaccinations are rolled out. The issue is, we are not being treated equally 'upon leaving', or more to the point we are fined and threatened with criminal records for choosing not to accept the governments 'advice'. That's what I find hard to swallow. And to be honest, I'm lucky, I have nothing in particular I need to travel for right now (though I'd love some sun), I feel especially bad with those with family abroad they may never see again.

So equal in, not equal out....

Ah no sure it's a discussion and a fair one at that imo. Btw I see what you're saying but bar actually preventing non nationals for leaving I reckon we can do little more.

Personally I see the fines as an amalgam of the stick and carrot approach. If you don't travel you don't get fined. If you do - you do.

I suppose we could close our borders and stop non national / non essential travellers from arriving in the first place. Or we could try and fine them but chances are they'd decamp - never to be heard of again. I'm not sure interpol would be willing to put out EU warrants for something like a travel fine. There are some other EU countries which I suppose could be said to discrimate against their own citizens by virtue of the fact that those countries are still leaving non nationals in.

Its a bit of a tricky one alright.

Never forget the time in history, our so called liberal left cheer leaded the incarceration of free citizens with negative covid tests.

And may people take a long hard look at themselves for supporting this absolute outrage.

Tazz T wrote: »

Here we go again, as in you're going to continue repeating 'we are fairly much in alignment with EU Guidelines at this time', when I never said we weren't. My point was we weren't last summer and won't be this summer.

Hence back to the original point of Aer Lingus going to England. Our non-alignment with EU guidelines throughout the crisis has led to our aviation industry and supporting industries being disproportionally hit compared with other countries in the EU or the UK.

No. That was an additional to what had already been said and a move on to present situation . And afaik yes we are currently more or less in alignment with EU travel guidelines atm.

Genuine question - do you have a crystal ball? Because if you don't we can't know that at this point in time. Looks like lots of Europe are facing the rise of infections we saw at Christmas and are increasingly looking towards more lockdowns.

The odd thing through about lockdowns and travel, is that compared to here- the UK also had long term stringent travel restrictions and have just recently increased fines etc to discourage all non essential travel.

My point is that partially due to the common travel area betwwen the UK and Ireland and the industry looking to cut the bottom out of the market - then airlines looking to get the best deal isn't perhaps that surprising.

ninebeanrows wrote: »

I hope people are proud of themselves.


What a shocking stain on our history.

Shame on the populists who let this day come

Just look at these pictures. A sad sad day for this state.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0326/1206221-mandatory-hotel-quarantine/

What a disgrace. Imagine being escorted from the airport by the army like you're a terrorist ffs.

I have to ask though... Why don't the Passengers just fly elsewhere for a few days that's not on the list then fly to Ireland?

Sure they'll spend more but it will be a lot less than the hotel fee and you won't end up wanting to kill yourself after 12 days being a prisoner in a hotel.