Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

RobitTV · 22-03-2021 09:29AM

All I read daily from people who comment online - "Why haven't they shut the airports (insert multiple angry faces)"

If people only knew that travel has collapsed by a whopping 97-98% and that Dublin Airport is the only airport that is operating in the state at this moment and time.

But it does not matter how many times these factual pieces of information are presented to the public. The media come up with a new story the next day to ramp up the bizarre travel hysteria and we are back at square one.

90% of the public will never form a different opinion on this issue. Even when the facts are presented to them on a golden plate.

Complete lost cause.

RobitTV · 22-03-2021 09:42AM

Saw footage from Marbella yesterday on social media. I was surprised with the amount of buzz around the place and the amount of people sitting outside and inside socialising and having a meal or a drink.

Then I was pretty gobsmacked that there was this inside nightclub / bar that was open during the afternoon, and people were allowed inside with no masks and were allowed to mix with social distancing in place. Music was playing with a DJ there. Good for them!

I was really surprised about the situation over there, much better then I expected. There was a real buzz around the marina area with everything open and a good amount of local people sitting around like normal.

Jesus we are screwed here...

Tazz T · 22-03-2021 09:47AM

RobitTV wrote: »

All I read daily from people who comment online - "Why haven't they shut the airports (insert multiple angry faces)"

If people only knew that travel has collapsed by a whopping 97-98% and that Dublin Airport is the only airport that is operating in the state at this moment and time.

But it does not matter how many times these factual pieces of information are presented to the public. The media come up with a new story the next day to ramp up the bizarre travel hysteria and we are back at square one.

90% of the public will never form a different opinion on this issue. Even when the facts are presented to them on a golden plate.

Complete lost cause.

This. Completely clueless.

Dublin Live, in particular, seems more concerned about publishing questionable numbers on airport arrivals than disease stats. Usually, in the same edition, there's a piece that states 'Hope for sunlovers' that goes on about a new airline route, or that the EU are planning for travel - all with one goal to get the 'shut-the-airporters' and 'zero-coviders' in a unending circular war with those that in favour of aligning with a balanced (and proportional) EU-wide approach.

RobitTV · 22-03-2021 09:54AM

The Irish Daily Mirror is the most absurd newspaper in existence. Garbage headlines on the website.

- 'LOCKDOWN updates as government is set to ease lockdown - LIVE updates'
- 'UPDATES as government gives dates for possible re-opening of barbers'
- 'LEVEL 5 set to be eased - click for updates'
- 'SUN SUN SUN - Irish travellers could be heading abroad this summer'
- 'NO HOLIDAYS ABROAD - Summer hols looks set to be cancelled'
- 'LOCKDOWN set to continue until June'
- 'BREAKING: Government gives lockdown end update'

a clanger · 22-03-2021 09:59AM

Whatever your opinion on travel the fact that Eamon Ryan is Minister for Transport and has been invisible for 6 months sums up this Govt attitude to covid. Hide behind NPHET and hopefully let them take the public ire at mismanagement, incompetence and lack of planning. NPHET have called for mandatory quarantine for all entry into the state. I have traveled to Europe and the US over the last few months and the planes have 4 times more passengers leaving then entering Ireland. I don't question NPHETS advice or expertise on travel/economy but it has to be balanced by a competent Govt weighing up all aspects. Media hysteria has as an earlier poster said has planted travel as No1 public enemy. It covers up for a dysfunctional HSE and a Govt with an eye on re-election. Next week it will be schools/people outside 5K/ boozy Easter parties various others without a voice to reply.

faceman · 22-03-2021 10:01AM

RobitTV wrote: »

Saw footage from Marbella yesterday on social media. I was surprised with the amount of buzz around the place and the amount of people sitting outside and inside socialising and having a meal or a drink.

Then I was pretty gobsmacked that there was this inside nightclub / bar that was open during the afternoon, and people were allowed inside with no masks and were allowed to mix with social distancing in place. Music was playing with a DJ there. Good for them!

I was really surprised about the situation over there, much better then I expected. There was a real buzz around the marina area with everything open and a good amount of local people sitting around like normal.

Jesus we are screwed here...

I’ve not seen the video but I’m pretty sure what you described of the nightclub is not permitted

RobitTV · 22-03-2021 10:14AM

faceman wrote: »

I’ve not seen the video but I’m pretty sure what you described of the nightclub is not permitted

Yeah It's not really a proper nightclub situation. But it comes across like some sort of a underground bar where people are allowed to drink in. But it had lights and a DJ playing which I was surprised by.

Red Silurian · 22-03-2021 10:15AM

faceman wrote: »

Reading the Independent today makes for grim reading. I anticipate we will see mandatory detention centre hotels applied to most incoming travellers by the summer.

The appetite by a sizeable portion of the Irish population is disappointing and fuelled idealism and scare mongering

Despite increase in cases domestically there’s still not a hint of any punishment for confirmed cases or close contacts for breaching rules

It’s easy for most to opt not to get on a plane so it’s easy to scream for quarantine

The suggest of quarantine for confirmed cases and close contacts though and let’s see who’s talking about civil liberties then

I think what is most important to Civil Liberties is the usage of language, we are not detaining anybody so calling them mandatory detention centre hotels is nothing more than a scare tactic

Del Griffith · 22-03-2021 10:20AM

RobitTV wrote: »

Saw footage from Marbella yesterday on social media. I was surprised with the amount of buzz around the place and the amount of people sitting outside and inside socialising and having a meal or a drink.

Then I was pretty gobsmacked that there was this inside nightclub / bar that was open during the afternoon, and people were allowed inside with no masks and were allowed to mix with social distancing in place. Music was playing with a DJ there. Good for them!

I was really surprised about the situation over there, much better then I expected. There was a real buzz around the marina area with everything open and a good amount of local people sitting around like normal.

Jesus we are screwed here...

You'd want to see the beaches and outside areas here in Malta since they shut the bars/restaurants on 11th April, it's like a festival, Electric Picnic would have nothing on it for socialising.

Del Griffith · 22-03-2021 10:21AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

I think what is most important to Civil Liberties is the usage of language, we are not detaining anybody so calling them mandatory detention centre hotels is nothing more than a scare tactic

So people can walk out of them then?

News to me

faceman · 22-03-2021 10:22AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

I think what is most important to Civil Liberties is the usage of language, we are not detaining anybody so calling them mandatory detention centre hotels is nothing more than a scare tactic

What part of mandatory hotel quarantine doesn’t involve detaining people against their will? Not everyone who travels to Ireland is doing so for holidays.

Escorted from the airport to the hotel by security. 2 weeks without permission to leave your room, no contact with outside world. Meals handed to you. In some cases no outside air. No visitors. Breaching this will result in a custodial sentence. The law has been changed to overwrite civil liberties.

All of this despite turning up in Ireland with a negative PCR test.

Meanwhile you can catch covid or be a close contact in ireland and leave your house as you wish without penality

Are people that stupid they think this makes sense?

Also they’re called detention centres in some other jurisdictions

Yapamillias · 22-03-2021 11:56AM

faceman wrote: »

What part of mandatory hotel quarantine doesn’t involve detaining people against their will? Not everyone who travels to Ireland is doing so for holidays.

Escorted from the airport to the hotel by security. 2 weeks without permission to leave your room, no contact with outside world. Meals handed to you. In some cases no outside air. No visitors. Breaching this will result in a custodial sentence. The law has been changed to overwrite civil liberties.

All of this despite turning up in Ireland with a negative PCR test.

Meanwhile you can catch covid or be a close contact in ireland and leave your house as you wish without penality

Are people that stupid they think this makes sense?

Also they’re called detention centres in some other jurisdictions

Having been through different quarantines at different Covid times there is a stark contrast to how 14 days feels for sure.

Berlin - April 2020 - Was meant to be 14 days but Germany changed their entry laws and I was a free man after 5 days. Spent all 5 days inside. Fine.

Berlin - July 2020 - 14 Full days inside during my birthday no less because I had been informed I was a close contact. I did not leave for the full 14 days...really tough. Small room

Ireland Aug 2020 - 12-14 days - went for walks around my estate to keep sane and feel the sun on my face...very valuable to have the exercise for me especially. Was a little bored after a week must admit.

Turkey (now) 14 days but not mandatory - I can leave and do whatever I want so there is no law that I have to stay but I am a little more worried about getting Covid from others than I am from giving it to other people. Its very busy here.

S.Korea has the same regarding you cant leave your room for any reason or you will be deported and fined. It's not an easy situation and it either has to be super strict or it wont work but I agree with Faceman in that how can we have hundreds of people in these hotels and then have hundreds more in the exact potential risk factor freely walking around?

faceman · 22-03-2021 12:19PM

Yapamillias wrote: »

Having been through different quarantines at different Covid times there is a stark contrast to how 14 days feels for sure.

Berlin - April 2020 - Was meant to be 14 days but Germany changed their entry laws and I was a free man after 5 days. Spent all 5 days inside. Fine.

Berlin - July 2020 - 14 Full days inside during my birthday no less because I had been informed I was a close contact. I did not leave for the full 14 days...really tough. Small room

Ireland Aug 2020 - 12-14 days - went for walks around my estate to keep sane and feel the sun on my face...very valuable to have the exercise for me especially. Was a little bored after a week must admit.

Turkey (now) 14 days but not mandatory - I can leave and do whatever I want so there is no law that I have to stay but I am a little more worried about getting Covid from others than I am from giving it to other people. Its very busy here.

S.Korea has the same regarding you cant leave your room for any reason or you will be deported and fined. It's not an easy situation and it either has to be super strict or it wont work but I agree with Faceman in that how can we have hundreds of people in these hotels and then have hundreds more in the exact potential risk factor freely walking around?

I too quarantined twice last year on return to Ireland. (With the exception of attending a funeral on the second trip)

There’s a world of difference between quarantining at home and being detained in a hotel without access to the outdoors and fresh air.

Again the nutcases seem to think travel is the root cause of covid transmission in Ireland and stick their head in the sand when it comes to domestically manage transmission

I willing to bet my entire livelihood that a tiny percentage of Irish people have followed the rules to the letter and from what I’m seeing on social media over the past 2 months, many are blatant parading it while thinking it’s normal.

KanyeSouthEast · 22-03-2021 01:22PM

faceman wrote: »

Reading the Independent today makes for grim reading. I anticipate we will see mandatory detention centre hotels applied to most incoming travellers by the summer.

The appetite by a sizeable portion of the Irish population is disappointing and fuelled idealism and scare mongering

Despite increase in cases domestically there’s still not a hint of any punishment for confirmed cases or close contacts for breaching rules

It’s easy for most to opt not to get on a plane so it’s easy to scream for quarantine

The suggest of quarantine for confirmed cases and close contacts though and let’s see who’s talking about civil liberties then

Are you saying that mandatory quarantine will include people coming from other EU countries Faceman? Surely not? The EU cannot allow this to happen?

ninebeanrows · 22-03-2021 01:31PM

What's most worrying about this list is that there appears no metrics to remove them

For example, Austria an an example, why has it been on the list for so long? it's cases are getting up a bit again now but were below Ireland for a long time and the list hasn't been updated.

There needs to be a fair and measurable reason for it to be enforced.

Maybe something like 500 14 day av per 100k or something updated weekly.

faceman · 22-03-2021 01:42PM

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

Are you saying that mandatory quarantine will include people coming from other EU countries Faceman? Surely not? The EU cannot allow this to happen?

Its possible and certainly the people want it, and many government ministers want it.

The EU cant stop it if Ireland have domestic restrictions on travel.

22-03-2021 03:28PM

I just received an email from my property agent( I rent ) Back around August she wanted me to get a cleaner in to do a deep clean of the apartment. I was annoyed, not about spending the money, but during a pandemic introducing a person who has been in other households into my safe place.

Got another email just now asking am I getting a cleaner again because "in these times its so important to keep the place clean and tidy due to the virus".

Which part of "You cannot have visitors to your home" does she not understand?

We're a year into this now and people still don't get it. Makes me furious. :mad:

josip · 22-03-2021 03:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I just received an email from my property agent( I rent ) Back around August she wanted me to get a cleaner in to do a deep clean of the apartment. I was annoyed, not about spending the money, but during a pandemic introducing a person who has been in other households into my safe place.

Got another email just now asking am I getting a cleaner again because "in these times its so important to keep the place clean and tidy due to the virus".

Which part of "You cannot have visitors to your home" does she not understand?

We're a year into this now and people still don't get it. Makes me furious. :mad:

Perhaps your property agent is shilling for a cleaner friend who has lost a lot of customers during the lockdown ?
Property agents and management companies are well known for directing work to their contacts.

New Home · 22-03-2021 03:41PM

josip wrote: »

Perhaps your property agent is shilling for a cleaner friend who has lost a lot of customers during the lockdown ?
Property agents and management companies are well known for directing work to their contacts.

Plus, surely, you're the one who's living in there so aside from you who else would be at risk of catching something in your own place? That'd annoy me, big time.

Plumbthedepths · 22-03-2021 03:42PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just received an email from my property agent( I rent ) Back around August she wanted me to get a cleaner in to do a deep clean of the apartment. I was annoyed, not about spending the money, but during a pandemic introducing a person who has been in other households into my safe place.

Got another email just now asking am I getting a cleaner again because "in these times its so important to keep the place clean and tidy due to the virus".

Which part of "You cannot have visitors to your home" does she not understand?

We're a year into this now and people still don't get it. Makes me furious. :mad:

This is relevant to travel?

New Home · 22-03-2021 03:47PM

Maybe it's driving josip mad.

PowerToWait · 22-03-2021 03:49PM

faceman wrote: »

Again the nutcases seem to think travel is the root cause of covid transmission in Ireland and stick their head in the sand when it comes to domestically manage transmission

There was an expert on the wireless this morning. I think from the HPSC. He was of the opinion travel isn't a huge issue BUT introducing potential variants is a real concern, potentially screwing our efforts at vaccination.

22-03-2021 03:53PM

josip wrote: »

Perhaps your property agent is shilling for a cleaner friend who has lost a lot of customers during the lockdown ?
Property agents and management companies are well known for directing work to their contacts.

Said property agent also runs a cleaning Company (surprise, surprise!). I made a point of not using her services when I got the cleaner out.

22-03-2021 03:55PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

This is relevant to travel?

I actually misread the thread title and thought this was the covid mega thread.

Anyway I was fuming and basically wanted to rant about it.

Tazz T · 22-03-2021 04:07PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

There was an expert on the wireless this morning. I think from the HPSC. He was of the opinion travel isn't a huge issue BUT introducing potential variants is a real concern, potentially screwing our efforts at vaccination.

Of course variants are a concern, but no one, absolutely no country has escaped the variants. Loads of countries in Europe are being hit by the B117 right now. It's just as likely B117 was introduced via the North (no PCR checks there) than Dublin airport. As will any new variant once the UK is open for business.

And that doesn't even take into account that lots of 'essential incoming workers at the airport' are exempt from new quarantine restrictions.

Plumbthedepths · 22-03-2021 04:30PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I actually misread the thread title and thought this was the covid mega thread.

Anyway I was fuming and basically wanted to rant about it.

Lots of ranting on the main thread, your post will fit right in.

FlubberJones · 22-03-2021 05:07PM

I still have hopes to travel to the continent in June and I'll definitely be hitting the UK in May too, but i would rather do it without having to do this with poxy people asking me where I have been and why.

Wallander · 22-03-2021 05:09PM

faceman wrote: »

Reading the Independent today makes for grim reading. I anticipate we will see mandatory detention centre hotels applied to most incoming travellers by the summer.

The appetite by a sizeable portion of the Irish population is disappointing and fuelled idealism and scare mongering

Despite increase in cases domestically there’s still not a hint of any punishment for confirmed cases or close contacts for breaching rules

It’s easy for most to opt not to get on a plane so it’s easy to scream for quarantine

The suggest of quarantine for confirmed cases and close contacts though and let’s see who’s talking about civil liberties then

This is quite possible unfortunately. Despite no evidence of any country suppressing widespread Covid transmission by closing borders (as opposed to a few who suppressed a handful of cases while already having closed borders) huge numbers are convinced Ireland can be the first country in the world to achieve this! This view clearly pervades government thinking too: "Mr Martin said mandatory quarantine would be at its strongest when the number of cases was very low in Ireland, and would help ensure they did not rise steeply again."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-mandatory-quarantine-will-deter-travel-says-taoiseach-1.4516882

Given that numbers will not get very low or avoid rising steeply until there is widespread vaccination, there might be a lot of people disappointed. As for variants, we are obviously getting whatever the UK is getting unless a complete closure of the N Ireland border is on the cards.

Micky 32 · 22-03-2021 05:51PM

Wallander wrote: »

This is quite possible unfortunately. Despite no evidence of any country suppressing widespread Covid transmission by closing borders (as opposed to a few who suppressed a handful of cases while already having closed borders) huge numbers are convinced Ireland can be the first country in the world to achieve this! This view clearly pervades government thinking too: "Mr Martin said mandatory quarantine would be at its strongest when the number of cases was very low in Ireland, and would help ensure they did not rise steeply again."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-mandatory-quarantine-will-deter-travel-says-taoiseach-1.4516882

Given that numbers will not get very low or avoid rising steeply until there is widespread vaccination, there might be a lot of people disappointed. As for variants, we are obviously getting whatever the UK is getting unless a complete closure of the N Ireland border is on the cards.

Not all doom and gloom for quarantine:

“”While anticipating the list of countries would be added to, he rejected mandatory quarantine for incoming passengers from all countries, for which some members of the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) have argued.

He said the legislation required good pubic health grounds for countries to be added,, and that there would be no legal basis for applying the rule to all countries. He said it would make no sense and Nphet as a whole was clear about the issue “and agree with a balanced approach”.””

So i’m sure when cases dwindle via vaccination etc they’ll have to ease the quarantine restrictions from other countries

22-03-2021 05:53PM

Wallander wrote: »

This is quite possible unfortunately. Despite no evidence of any country suppressing widespread Covid transmission by closing borders (as opposed to a few who suppressed a handful of cases while already having closed borders) huge numbers are convinced Ireland can be the first country in the world to achieve this! This view clearly pervades government thinking too: "Mr Martin said mandatory quarantine would be at its strongest when the number of cases was very low in Ireland, and would help ensure they did not rise steeply again."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-mandatory-quarantine-will-deter-travel-says-taoiseach-1.4516882

Given that numbers will not get very low or avoid rising steeply until there is widespread vaccination, there might be a lot of people disappointed. As for variants, we are obviously getting whatever the UK is getting unless a complete closure of the N Ireland border is on the cards.

I don’t think we need to worry. The same thing happened in the UK the week that hotel quarantine came on line. There was a lot of buzz around it, how it was step 1 and would be expanded. All the ZC merchants got their column inches in. It got loads of airtime with the likes of Stephen Nolan. Priti Patel and her allies were emboldened and said they’d wanted mandatory quarantine for all travelers since March last year, and that this was the opportunity.

And then it all went quiet and everyone got on with things. Same will happen here. There’ll be countries added for a few weeks here and there, but that’ll be it

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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