The delusions of Mary McAleese

Bobtheman · 19-03-2021 5:08pm #1

Seems Mary can't keep her mouth shut about gays and the church. Never said a word about it in 14 years as president but now thinks the Church is listening to her.
I regard myself as pro Church and its attitude as terrible towards gays. However you are pissing in the wind thinking the church would listen to a has been Irish politician.
On this matter it would not even listen to the US president who has real power.
The Church will eventually see sense in a couple of centuries.
What annoys me is that Mary gets coverage on RTE who love to church bait and her silence during her presidency.
Just realised I misspelled her name in the title.

Jim2007 · 19-03-2021 5:17pm

I know lockdown is hard, but obsessing about Mary McAleese is not health.

TomTomTim · 19-03-2021 5:29pm

Agreed. Anytime I see her in the media she's attacking the CC, which is something I'm certainly not offended by. At the same time though, I do find it pathetic, as she's attacking them at their weakest, which says a lot about her. It's easy to fight a monster when the monster is all but dead.

AndrewJRenko · 19-03-2021 5:33pm

TomTomTim wrote: »

Agreed. Anytime I see her in the media she's attacking the CC, .

You didn't see her series on RTE walking the hills with various heads, Leo, lovely girl Amy and others, talking broadly about spirituality and not attacking the CC at all?

Bobtheman · 19-03-2021 5:37pm

The church is not dead far from it. Numbers attending are in decline in Ireland but worldwide its doing relatively well.
Though I'd accept your point about her timing.
We see the same nonsense in the Irish Times. The social battles are over but they are still fighting.
That's when they are not constantly lecturing white men. Or any man I suppose

Bobtheman · 19-03-2021 5:38pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You didn't see her series on RTE walking the hills with various heads, Leo, lovely girl Amy and others, talking broadly about spirituality and not attacking the CC at all?

What ****ing audience would watch that ****?
I'm in favour of public broadcasting but jesus that would make me think we should burn rte to the ground.

keano_afc · 19-03-2021 5:39pm

She seems consistently surprised that the head of the Catholic Church states that the Catholic Church follows Catholic doctrine. What does she expect?

Faugheen · 19-03-2021 5:41pm

keano_afc wrote: »

She seems consistently surprised that the head of the Catholic Church states that the Catholic Church follows Catholic doctrine. What does she expect?

Maybe for the Church to move on with the times and to stop living in the 1500s.

The Catholic Church is a homophobic, misogynistic institution. F*ck ‘em.

AndrewJRenko · 19-03-2021 5:42pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

What ****ing audience would watch that ****?
I'm in favour of public broadcasting but jesus that would make me think we should burn rte to the ground.

I enjoyed the few of them that I saw. I'm a card carrying atheist, but hearing others talk about their spirituality is interesting for me.

keano_afc · 19-03-2021 5:45pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Maybe for the Church to move on with the times and to stop living in the 1500s.

The Catholic Church is a homophobic, misogynistic institution. F*ck ‘em.

But they're not going to change. Don't like it? Fine, don't join it. Move on and find another hobby.

Donald Trump · 19-03-2021 5:46pm

Mary McCheese

berocca2016 · 19-03-2021 5:46pm

To be noted and noting that I am an avid homosexual, it is not the job of the Irish president to express a political opinion, therefore was limited in what she could say while in the role, now she's out of it she can say what she wants?

I don't really see what your issue with her debating articulately about the Catholic Church ?

Bubbaclaus · 19-03-2021 5:47pm

keano_afc wrote: »

She seems consistently surprised that the head of the Catholic Church states that the Catholic Church follows Catholic doctrine. What does she expect?

Yup. The solution is not asking for the CC to change its ways, its not going to happen in any meaningful or sincere way. The solution is to just remove any of its influence from people that don't want anything to do with it.

partyguinness · 19-03-2021 5:51pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Seems Mary can't keep her mouth shut about gays and the church. Never said a word about it in 14 years as president but now thinks the Church is listening to her.
I regard myself as pro Church and its attitude as terrible towards gays. However you are pissing in the wind thinking the church would listen to a has been Irish politician.
On this matter it would not even listen to the US president who has real power.
The Church will eventually see sense in a couple of centuries.
What annoys me is that Mary gets coverage on RTE who love to church bait and her silence during her presidency.
Just realised I misspelled her name in the title.

She said nothing for 14 years as President exactly because she was President.

I am sure she does not expect the Church to listen her. She is only a woman but still her freedom now allows her to express her views plus she is also a committed Catholic. It may well be that she is happy to comment because she knows the CC will not do anything.

"CC follows Catholic doctrine in new SHOCK"

The positon of the Catholic Church in the US is nowhere near as pronounced as it is in Ireland.

E mac · 19-03-2021 5:53pm

Anyone making the Catholic Church accountable for their past crimes is alright by me.

partyguinness · 19-03-2021 5:56pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

The church is not dead far from it. Numbers attending are in decline in Ireland but worldwide its doing relatively well.

As long as there is poverty and deprivation in the world the CC will be fine. Always a new market emerging somewhere.

TheValeyard · 19-03-2021 5:57pm

I thought she was doing a lot of this to help her son in politics?

riffmongous · 19-03-2021 5:58pm

The Catholic Church can change its doctrine though. Therefore there's no harm in it

Coillte_Bhoy · 19-03-2021 6:00pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

The church is not dead far from it. Numbers attending are in decline in Ireland but worldwide its doing relatively well.
Though I'd accept your point about her timing.
We see the same nonsense in the Irish Times. The social battles are over but they are still fighting.
That's when they are not constantly lecturing white men. Or any man I suppose

few battles left, to drive them completely out of Health and education for a start

partyguinness · 19-03-2021 6:07pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

few battles left, to drive them completely out of Health and education for a start

I read a very good Fintan O'Toole article several years ago about how the CC successfully lobbied the British during the 19th C to essentially give the CC sole control over education and health. The British were not that bothered.

It shattered the notion I grew up with that somehow the CC came in to save Ireland. This notion that only for the CC the Irish would have had no education or healthcare. Quite the opposite- Ireland was a breeding ground. The CC swooped in like a vulture post famine when the country was on its knees.

The CC was solely responsble for segregating education in this country all for its pure self serving machine.

Bobtheman · 19-03-2021 6:09pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I enjoyed the few of them that I saw. I'm a card carrying atheist, but hearing others talk about their spirituality is interesting for me.

Especially when not only are you paying for the program but also the salaries and pensions of all the main guests!

Faugheen · 19-03-2021 6:15pm

keano_afc wrote: »

But they're not going to change. Don't like it? Fine, don't join it. Move on and find another hobby.

And accept a homophobic, misogynistic institution without any issue?

Nah, I’ll keep pointing it out, thanks.

Are you telling me I can’t criticise things? Aren’t you one of those free speech brigaders?

Bobtheman · 19-03-2021 6:15pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I read a very good Fintan O'Toole article several years ago about how the CC successfully lobbied the British during the 19th C to essentially give the CC sole control over education and health. The British were not that bothered.

It shattered the notion I grew up with that somehow the CC came in to save Ireland. This notion that only for the CC the Irish would have had no education or healthcare. Quite the opposite- Ireland was a breeding ground. The CC swooped in like a vulture post famine when the country was on its knees.

The CC was solely responsble for segregating education in this country all for its pure self serving machine.

A bit simplistic. You'd want to do better than base your historical knowledge on a po-faced Liberal like tooler. The church funded a lot of hospitals and then they came under state funding. Ireland had a hybrid system of state and church funding. The state was very slow to put its hand in its pocket. Even today the church based institutions are more efficient than the purely state one
But there is a huge amount of over lap.
The church gave a cheap service in that most church teachers and nurses worked for nothing.
In return they got to indoctrinate children.
It has also to be said that caring for the sick and dying is very much a church thing. Christian. There were **** all hospitals in India and Africa before the church arrived if any.

Faugheen · 19-03-2021 6:19pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

A bit simplistic. You'd want to do better than base your historical knowledge on a po-faced Liberal like tooler. The church funded a lot of hospitals and then they came under state funding. Ireland had a hybrid system of state and church funding. The state was very slow to put its hand in its pocket. Even today the church based institutions are more efficient than the purely state one
But there is a huge amount of over lap.
The church gave a cheap service in that most church teachers and nurses worked for nothing.
In return they got to indoctrinate children.
It has also to be said that caring for the sick and dying is very much a church thing. Christian. There were **** all hospitals in India and Africa before the church arrived if any.

Funded a lot of mother and baby homes and schools too where they took advantage of vulnerable people and tried to cover it up.

I’m sorry that it upsets you that the institution is warped.

McGinniesta · 19-03-2021 6:32pm

What I could never understand is why any gay person would want to be a member of a religion that clearly doesn't agree with how they live their lives.

McGinniesta · 19-03-2021 6:33pm

E mac wrote: »

Anyone making the Catholic Church accountable for their past crimes is alright by me.

She hasn't made them accountable for anything.

She's been grumbling about it for years and has had absolutely zero effect.

partyguinness · 19-03-2021 6:57pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

A bit simplistic. You'd want to do better than base your historical knowledge on a po-faced Liberal like tooler. The church funded a lot of hospitals and then they came under state funding. Ireland had a hybrid system of state and church funding. The state was very slow to put its hand in its pocket. Even today the church based institutions are more efficient than the purely state one
But there is a huge amount of over lap.
The church gave a cheap service in that most church teachers and nurses worked for nothing.
In return they got to indoctrinate children.
It has also to be said that caring for the sick and dying is very much a church thing. Christian. There were **** all hospitals in India and Africa before the church arrived if any.

Well, of course it is the simplistic version to paint the overall picture. It is a Boards post and not meant to be a comprehensive treatsie.

The po faced Tooler has impeccable creditentials and his analysis historical is sound (a bit too depressing sometimes granted) but I can understand why he would get under your skin what with his pesky historical analysis of Church related matters...;)

Why would you say that the Church based system is more efficent than the pure State system? I am not disagreeing with you as such just curious as a matter of interest.

Dyr · 19-03-2021 7:04pm

berocca2016 wrote: »

To be noted and noting that I am an avid homosexual, it is not the job of the Irish president to express a political opinion, therefore was limited in what she could say while in the role, now she's out of it she can say what she wants?

I don't really see what your issue with her debating articulately about the Catholic Church ?

Limited in what she could say? Give over, Being President never stopped Robbo, Maccers or the current twerp from spouting whatever guff they wanted

partyguinness · 19-03-2021 7:10pm

Bambi wrote: »

Limited in what she could say? Give over, Being President never stopped Robbo, Maccers or the current twerp from spouting whatever guff they wanted

Why the need for the disrespectful abbreviations/insults?

Bobtheman · 19-03-2021 7:10pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Funded a lot of mother and baby homes and schools too where they took advantage of vulnerable people and tried to cover it up.

I’m sorry that it upsets you that the institution is warped.

I accept fully its flaws. Let's keep things in perspective. Treating unwed mothers as pariah was common throughout Europe until probably the 1950s or later. We just continued on a lot longer than others.
Plus adoption scandals are quite common throughout the world. Look at Spain.
Families put their daughters out on the street throughout Europe. Where did you want these women to go?? It was patriarchy at its worst.
You'd be quite a simple thinker if you blamed that entirely on the church.. Sex before marriage really wasn't accepted in Europe until the 1960s.
Even that rebel John lennon had to marry Cynthia when he knocked her up.

lalababa · 19-03-2021 7:12pm

I'm always amazed by the backlash McCalese gets for saying that RCC doctrine is discriminatory to women & gays. Which it is..( Basically says women & gays are inherently evil and of lesser importance than men)
But shur begawd you can't bate a good mass shur don't be thinking too much fer yerself .....who do you think you are atall at all at all.

The delusions of Mary McAleese

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