What's your wish list.....

Wibbs · 27-02-2021 8:36pm

That is a very very nice watch T. Traditional, but with a lot of modernity in the execution and made from an actual precious metal, but still understated, "sporty" and "chic". For me that's the most luxurious Rollie there is. Sure you have the bejewelled Daytonas and the like, but for me they're like comparing Monica Bellucci and some trout pout instagram "model" with more filters than a municipal water treatment plant.

893bet · 27-02-2021 8:52pm

Time wrote: »

Damn

It’s ok. Market bottomed and is on the way back up. It Rolex remember!

Lovely watch. I like this version, a little small, but I like it a lot. If paying retail I would have plumbed for the rose Daytona personally.

893bet · 27-02-2021 9:01pm

Well on the way to that Patek at retail also! Them not so in demand Rolex are the ones they want to sell.

Thirdfox · 27-02-2021 9:05pm

Wibbs wrote: »

...and some trout pout instagram "model" with more filters than a municipal water treatment plant.

You've got a very good understanding of Instagram influencers/models there Wibbs - does MrsWibbs know?

...Oh and I have to use Instagram for the Sólás stuff - if you look at my recommendations it's all watches and cat videos :pac:

Fitz II · 27-02-2021 9:11pm

Thirdfox wrote: »

You've got a very good understanding of Instagram influencers/models there Wibbs - does MrsWibbs know?

...Oh and I have to use Instagram for the Sólás stuff - if you look at my recommendations it's all watches and cat videos :pac:

Tell me about it, you search for pussy one time and they hound you.

Time · 27-02-2021 9:18pm

893bet wrote: »

It’s ok. Market bottomed and is on the way back up. It Rolex remember!

Lovely watch. I like this version, a little small, but I like it a lot. If paying retail I would have plumbed for the rose Daytona personally.

Phew! you had me worried there for a minute.

I tried on a 40mm too and of the two it was the worse fit. its about a mil longer lug to lug from bb58 i picked up too and thats nearly at my the edge of my wrists. I've lost a tonne of weight the past few months so watches look bigger on my wrists now than they did.

I considered a Daytona briefly, but i've always wanted one of these more. Daytona would be on my list to have at some point though.

Wibbs · 27-02-2021 9:33pm

Love the handset on the Tudors.

Time wrote: »

I've lost a tonne of weight the past few months

Going on mates of mine you must be one of the few.

My wish list recent ebay "find" - 1913 18 jewel top grade Longines in a Borgel case but without pinset, using a fancy negative set all in one crown. Rare as rocking horse poop and only thought to have been patented in 1915 and even then were very rare as they were 3 pounds dearer when 3 pounds meant something dammit!

- was found by other feckers. :mad: Threw in a snipe of 600 quid with only two bidders and the fecker went for 700 sterlings, add in duty nowadays... :rolleyes: TBH I'd have been happy at a final hammer of 4-500, but 700 is a bit too much IMHO. Considering Tavannes Submarines the "first true waterproof watch" and all that go for 4-500 and they're more important historically. Still, with my gra for Longines... *manly tear*

Ah well. Funny enough I've always had way more luck with low ball bids.

If I think a watch is "worth" 1000 and I fire in 1200, no chance, but if I fire in 300 on the same watch... My Longines Ultronic diver was pretty much exactly that. Even then they were hitting over a grand, yet I got it for 280.

darragh o meara · 28-02-2021 1:24am

Time wrote: »

Phew! you had me worried there for a minute.

I tried on a 40mm too and of the two it was the worse fit. its about a mil longer lug to lug from bb58 i picked up too and thats nearly at my the edge of my wrists. I've lost a tonne of weight the past few months so watches look bigger on my wrists now than they did.

I considered a Daytona briefly, but i've always wanted one of these more. Daytona would be on my list to have at some point though.

Did you recently pick up the Tudor? I’m contemplating picking one up for my birthday and was gonna go used but the prices are close enough to retail. I wanted to ask if you bought it new was there much of a waiting period between order and collection?

I had hoped to call in and put a deposit down on one late last year but with Covid and all that crack I didn’t get near a jewellers

Time · 28-02-2021 1:41am

darragh o meara wrote: »

Did you recently pick up the Tudor? I’m contemplating picking one up for my birthday and was gonna go used but the prices are close enough to retail. I wanted to ask if you bought it new was there much of a waiting period between order and collection?

I had hoped to call in and put a deposit down on one late last year but with Covid and all that crack I didn’t get near a jewellers

I bought them both today. I actually got a better deal on that than a second hand one I was considering. There was no waiting on that one, spoke to Weirs in Monday and got it today.

I’m not too sure about the black, I know they had one there but I wasn’t interested in two black dial watches anyway. They’ll take a deposit over the phone though and can deliver it to you if you decide to go ahead.

It’s a great, versatile watch in either colour though and you won’t lose a tonne on it if you decide to move it on.

darragh o meara · 28-02-2021 2:12am

Time wrote: »

I bought them both today. I actually got a better deal on that than a second hand one I was considering. There was no waiting on that one, spoke to Weirs in Monday and got it today.

I’m not too sure about the black, I know they had one there but I wasn’t interested in two black dial watches anyway. They’ll take a deposit over the phone though and can deliver it to you if you decide to go ahead.

It’s a great, versatile watch in either colour though and you won’t lose a tonne on it if you decide to move it on.

Great, thanks for the quick reply. I was worried I wouldn’t be able to get one in time so that has put my mind somewhat at ease

I’ll give them a call Monday and see what they have in stock.

Do you mind me asking, did you find them ok to deal with in regards to a little bit of discount? When I tried them on early last year the salesman did offer me a few quid off a BB58 but that was face to face, I’m not sure how they are over the phone.

893bet · 28-02-2021 10:04am

Given that Time was buying a 25k gold Rolex at the same time I would expect a little movement on the BB58!

I would be interested to know if they offer wiggle room as a stand-alone purchase on the BB58.

Also I wouldn’t think that buying a 3k Tudor will suddenly give you access to a “hot Rolex”, especially from Weirs. I likely to even move the dial on there.

But that’s exactly what they want you think. Go second hand, save a few quid and let the ADs rot is my opinion at this stage.

Bluefoam · 28-02-2021 12:32pm

If you are going to buy a Rolex, do it because you want to wear it and enjoy it. If future value is your concern, stay clear.

There seems to be some superficial signs that access to Rolex is begining to relax and won't be rectified until they artificially limit supply to a greater extent.

Having said that, I do fancy a sub, but I don't buy watches to sell them.

893bet · 27-03-2021 10:43am

I am eyeing up a Dornbluth and Sohn these days. A 99.1-M customised to my preferences interns of colour and finish. The options are endless interms of customisation. They don’t do enough to sell that IMO and I have had to ask a million questions to figure out what I want and what they can do. They have in the post to me a couple of empty cases and straps to try for size which is a good service. I am a little concerned that they might be a little large for my preference so will have to try and be objective when they arrive.

Catalogue below to feed your eyes.

https://www.dornblueth.com/catalog/Dornblueth-Katalog-EN-Inhalt-min.pdf

Thirdfox · 27-03-2021 11:25am

Lovely read! My lawyer's eye is twitching seeing their timeline go from 1999 to 2016 to 2010 (pg 19, 22, 23 etc) where they mention how much of in-house movement finishing they do - presumably they mean 2020? Or they probably should put the 2010 in the timeline before 2016 (or is this some sort of German cultural thing I don't understand?)

Edit: I get it now - it's not a timeline - but a sliding scale to indicate how much of inhouse manual work they do on the movement - needed my morning coffee - so the fact that the 2016 comes after the 99 but before the 2010 makes sense now since the 2010 has closer to 100% inhouse work done.

The other thing I noted was after giving such a beautiful look into their watch processes it was kinda jarring to see them going with genuine leather rather than full grain on their straps - not a big deal since straps can be swapped out - but it would be nicer to see them use full grain at their price point so people could get the same excellence with their straps (that presumably have their signed buckles etc.) rather than fiddle around with different straps and potentially trying to remove the signed buckle to add onto a 3rd party strap. Just seemed after they put in all that effort into the beautiful work into the watch to go a little lower in quality for strap seems strange - I can't imagine it's a profit incentive - is it that Geckota doesn't do full grain or perhaps they don't understand the difference between full grain and genuine leather? (I didn't until I started sourcing leather straps myself).

RMDrive · 27-03-2021 12:41pm

893bet wrote: »

I am eyeing up a Dornbluth and Sohn these days. A 99.1-M customised to my preferences interns of colour and finish. The options are endless interms of customisation. They don’t do enough to sell that IMO and I have had to ask a million questions to figure out what I want and what they can do. They have in the post to me a couple of empty cases and straps to try for size which is a good service. I am a little concerned that they might be a little large for my preference so will have to try and be objective when they arrive.

Catalogue below to feed your eyes.

https://www.dornblueth.com/catalog/Dornblueth-Katalog-EN-Inhalt-min.pdf

Thanks. That was a pleasant half hour browsing. Enjoy the chase.

Fitz II · 27-03-2021 1:58pm

De Dornbluth are a super interesting brand. They stick very much to the German aesthetic, but the trick they have is the customisation. I saw them come up from time to time on other forums for sale, but never went for it because that was somebody else's preference, and I know that if I ordered I could have one exactly to my preference, and unlikely anyone else I ever met would have the same one. Price point is attractive also for this level of finishing. Downside is the long wait time (but in this world of Rolex the notion of putting your money down and defiantly getting your watch 7 months later is refreshingly secure) and the fact the movement are reworked rather than in house, but lets be honest here does it matter to the end product?

As far as I know, they send you updates on the progress of your watch which is totally cool also.

893bet · 27-03-2021 2:21pm

Fitz II wrote: »

De Dornbluth are a super interesting brand. They stick very much to the German aesthetic, but the trick they have is the customisation. I saw them come up from time to time on other forums for sale, but never went for it because that was somebody else's preference, and I know that if I ordered I could have one exactly to my preference, and unlikely anyone else I ever met would have the same one. Price point is attractive also for this level of finishing. Downside is the long wait time (but in this world of Rolex the notion of putting your money down and defiantly getting your watch 7 months later is refreshingly secure) and the fact the movement are reworked rather than in house, but lets be honest here does it matter to the end product?

As far as I know, they send you updates on the progress of your watch which is totally cool also.

Forgot to link the price list.

https://www.dornblueth.com/catalog/Preisliste%202020_Eng-exkl.pdf

Very much a “from” this price. Like a paddy spec car. Once you add the VAT and extras the actually price is a lot higher. Easy go from 4k ex VAT price to a 7k watch.

They do have an in-house movement option at a much higher price. That is the “Quintas” range on the catalogue. And the watch snob in me that I am fighting is telling me to go for that....but it’s much more expensive and you end up at a price point where other brands are to be considered. Rocking a Vacheron today that doesn’t have an in-house movement.

They send updates and in process images. You can also opt to collect your watch and meet the people who made it etc. 8-10 months wait time but that just adds to the anticipation.

Watchfinder video is superb. They could sell snow to the Eskimo’s though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moPHxraLIyA

Wibbs · 27-03-2021 2:31pm

Fitz II wrote: »

the fact the movement are reworked rather than in house, but lets be honest here does it matter to the end product?

+1 The list of "iconic" brands and models that had/have inhouse movements is a small enough one. EG Omega's Moon watch had a Lemania calibre. Now Omega and Lemania were under a group umbrella(with Tissot), but Lemania was separate and also sold movements to other brands. The Rolex Daytona had Valjoux and Zenith movements. Patek bought in movements too and outsourced some of their complications with it. For most of it's history Heuer exclusively used bought in chronograph movements. Made feck all difference to the status of the brands, or the quality of the watches. I suspect "in house" is just as much a marketing thing promoted by some brands to mark them out as more exclusive and to get all their manufacturing under one roof to streamline, control production and reduce internal costs.

Thirdfox · 27-03-2021 2:36pm

Considering Citizen, Seiko and Sea-Gull are all properly "in-house since the beginning" brands

Fitz II · 27-03-2021 2:49pm

893bet wrote: »

Rocking a Vacheron today that doesn’t have an in-house movement.

That's a reworked JLC movement which does somewhat easy the WIS nerves, as JLC has been a movement provider for all the holy trinity over the years

. But really the purpose of a inhouse movement is to stifle counterfeits or when you want unusual complications or have space or dial layout requirement that off the shelf movements cant satisfy. It doesnt bother me one way or the other. Tudor are in house "designed" but outsource manufacture....Its all a nonsense, really.

Cienciano · 27-03-2021 4:43pm

Insisting on having an "in house" movement is ridiculous. If you like the watch and the movement is accurate, easy to service and looks great through the display back and no one even knows it's not in house without googling that watch, who cares?

Having said that, no way in hell I'd spend more than 2k on a watch without an in house movement. Makes zero sense.

893bet · 27-03-2021 4:48pm

Fitz II wrote: »

That's a reworked JLC movement which does somewhat easy the WIS nerves, as JLC has been a movement provider for all the holy trinity over the years . But really the purpose of a inhouse movement is to stifle counterfeits or when you want unusual complications or have space or dial layout requirement that off the shelf movements cant satisfy. It doesnt bother me one way or the other. Tudor are in house "designed" but outsource manufacture....Its all a nonsense, really.

The one I am wearing has a GP movement actually....!

In-house is definitely nonsense in a lot of senses. Good excuse to ramp up prices. And limits servicing options.

893bet · 27-03-2021 4:57pm

Cienciano wrote: »

Having said that, no way in hell I'd spend more than 2k on a watch without an in house movement. Makes zero sense.

But why not? I feel a little the same way but can’t quite put my finger on why.

The finishing on this rebadged 6498 far exceeds that on the majority of the Swiss brands with in-house movements at the same price point and even multiples of the price point.

Cienciano · 27-03-2021 5:12pm

893bet wrote: »

But why not? I feel a little the same way but can’t quite put my finger on why.

The finishing on this rebadged 6498 far exceeds that on the majority of the Swiss brands with in-house movements at the same price point and even multiples of the price point.

I don't know! I just explain it by everyone likes different stuff. Mick down the road thinks owning a watch is pointless because he has a phone to tell the time. So, a lot of owning a mechanical watch makes no sense.
I like some of the high end quartz, some watch people would have zero interest in that. Sure I'm wearing a g-shock (casioak) right now with an aliexpress metal case which I love but i would have zero interest in a €2k tag with an eta movement. None of this makes sense, don't even try to explain it.

PunkIPA · 27-03-2021 5:15pm

Cienciano wrote: »

None of this makes sense, don't even try to explain it.

I think this sums up horology as a hobby in a nutshell.

Thirdfox · 27-03-2021 5:25pm

893bet wrote: »

But why not? I feel a little the same way but can’t quite put my finger on why.

The finishing on this rebadged 6498 far exceeds that on the majority of the Swiss brands with in-house movements at the same price point and even multiples of the price point.

Let's compare it to art - would "in house" be the sculptor who takes a block of marble and carves it into a Michaelangelo's David and "ebauche" be taking a Venus Di Milo shape and finishing it to a Venus Di Milo? There may be a feeling that yeah, they've turned a €200 movement into a super work of art - but it still has that history of a €200 movement left somewhere in it?

Vs. the expensive in-house movements so no Seiko NH35s or Sea-Gull ST2130s - they were "designed" to be in €5000 - 50,000 euro watches from the beginning? A feeling of gilding the lily even if that's not fair (or true)?

If someone refinished a Seiko NH35a (a $20 movement) to a Dornbleuth standard would you pay €2000 for it? The effort and work would justify the cost I'm sure - but are you always thinking - "but it's a gilded NH35a..."?

Wibbs · 27-03-2021 5:43pm

Funny enough Michaelangelo's David was sort of an ebauche. Two previous artists had started work on the huge block of marble, but didn't get very far with it and it laid in a yard for years before Mick got the nod to finish it.

893bet · 27-03-2021 6:24pm

Cienciano wrote: »

I don't know! I just explain it by everyone likes different stuff. Mick down the road thinks owning a watch is pointless because he has a phone to tell the time. So, a lot of owning a mechanical watch makes no sense.
I like some of the high end quartz, some watch people would have zero interest in that. Sure I'm wearing a g-shock (casioak) right now with an aliexpress metal case which I love but i would have zero interest in a €2k tag with an eta movement. None of this makes sense, don't even try to explain it.

That does make sense. Similar to why a petrol head would pass no remark to a Renault Megane but might cringe a little a Merc Cla180 (Renault engine). Expectations are higher for luxury brands and it feels like a sellout to use a generic or shared movement. Makes it seem cheap and it highlights what we all know.......for a luxury watch the material make up only a small part of the cost. The most of the cost is the brand name but with in-house movements the cost can be justified to ourselves partially at least.

As you say people value different things. Some people value “value”. Some people value brands. Some people value history. Some value “value retention”.

I value quality of finish above everything so I can make peace with Unitas movement that’s been on steroids I think. As long as the case size suits my wrist profile! Cases on the way so time will tell!

893bet · 27-03-2021 6:31pm

Thirdfox wrote: »

If someone refinished a Seiko NH35a (a $20 movement) to a Dornbleuth standard would you pay €2000 for it? The effort and work would justify the cost I'm sure - but are you always thinking - "but it's a gilded NH35a..."?

In the right watch I think so. If it was thrown into a seiko 5 case. Then no.

Same as this Unitas, it has been half thrown away, parts redesigned and added and refinished. And ......combined with engraved brass and enamel dials. Over all package is haaaawt.

893bet · 27-03-2021 6:32pm

If I get one I will likely engrave the movement also. Though that does mean I can’t spend 15-20 minutes talking about the box it came in on YouTube before returning it for a refund but that is a cross I will carry.

What's your wish list.....

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