$15,500 + transport !

This could be a party pooper....

DIRECTIVE (EU) 2017/853 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 17 May 2017

amending Council Directive 91/477/EEC on control of the acquisition and possession of weapons

(23)

Some semi-automatic firearms can easily be converted to automatic firearms, thus posing a threat to security. Even in the absence of such conversion, certain semi-automatic firearms might be very dangerous when their capacity, in terms of the number of rounds, is high. Therefore, semi-automatic firearms with a fixed loading device allowing a high number of rounds to be fired, as well as semi-automatic firearms in combination with a detachable loading device having a high capacity, should be prohibited for civilian use. The mere possibility of fitting a loading device with a capacity exceeding 10 rounds for long firearms and 20 rounds for short firearms does not determine the classification of the firearm in a specific category.

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Firstly, this firearm is not an assault rifle as it cannot function in both full and semi auto, neither can the normal M60 so it does not resemble an assault rifle

That seams reasonable.
Doesn’t meet the SI definition of assault rifle.
It resembles a machine gun - a true machine gun, not the TV/Movie nickname for a full auto.

Lastly the caliber, chambered in 7.62 this is within the non restricted threshold, ie under .308.

Correct.

Secondly, this firearm is legally not semi auto. Although this functions like any normal semi auto, this firearm is belt fed. SI 21/2008 states that "semi-automatic firearms means firearms that reload automatically from a magazine or cylinder each time a round is discharged but can fire not more than one round with a single pull on the trigger". Since this firearm does not use a magazine or a cylinder,

De-Loophole-licious...
...but looks like doesn't technically meet the definition of semi auto in the SI. Which only says magazine or cylinder as you correctly point out.

...legally it is a repeating firearm and hence not restricted.

This is where your hopes are dashed

“repeating firearms” means firearms that are loaded and reloaded from a magazine or cylinder by a manually-operated mechanism;

Not manually operated so not a repeater (or single shot), therefore not unrestricted.
It's also 110.5cm long, so fouls the 90cm rule.


Back to the drawing board I guess.

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

I covered this in the initial post. Legally a semi auto belt fed doesn't fit the definition of being semi automatic so no magazine or "loading device" limits apply to it.

Under the current SI, which I take it is Irish you could have your loop hole. But under EU directives each member state is compelled to comply and infact may be stricter in thier application.
So by using the term 'loading device' it seems to cover all avenues whether clips, magazines, belts, strips, tubes and what not.

At the moment this is all I can find on EU EU definitions, I think there are up dates with the recent 2018 changes


I.

For the purposes of this Directive, ‘weapon’ means:

—

any firearm as defined in section II of this Annex,

—

weapons other than firearms as defined in national legislation.

II.

For the purposes of this Directive, ‘firearm’ means:

A.

Any object which falls into one of the following categories, unless it meets the definition but is excluded for one of the reasons listed in section III.

Category A — Prohibited firearms

1.

Explosive military missiles and launchers.

2.

Automatic firearms.

3.

Firearms disguised as other objects.

4.

Ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles, and the projectiles for such ammunition.

5.

Pistol and revolver ammunition with expanding projectiles and the projectiles for such ammunition, except in the case of weapons for hunting or for target shooting, for persons entitled to use them.

Category B — Firearms subject to authorization

1.

Semi-automatic or repeating short firearms.

2.

Single-shot short firearms with centre-fire percussion.

3.

Single-shot short firearms with rimfire percussion whose overall length is less than 28 cm.

4.

Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.

5.

Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber cannot together hold more than three rounds, where the loading device is removable or where it is not certain that the weapon cannot be converted, with ordinary tools, into a weapon whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.

6.

Repeating and semi-automatic long firearms with smooth-bore barrels not exceeding 60 cm in length.

7.

Semi-automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms.

Category C — Firearms subject to declaration

1.

Repeating long firearms other than those listed in category B, point 6.

2.

Long firearms with single-shot rifled barrels.

3.

Semi-automatic long firearms other than those in category B, points 4 to 7.

4.

Single-shot short firearms with rimfire percussion whose overall length is not less than 28 cm.

Category D — Other firearms

Single-shot long firearms with smooth-bore barrels.

B.

Any essential component of such firearms:

The breach-closing mechanism, the chamber and the barrel of a firearm which, being separate objects, are included in the category of the firearms on which they are or are intended to be mounted.

III.

For the purposes of this Annex objects which correspond to the definition of a ‘firearm’ shall not be included in that definition if they:

(a)

have been rendered permanently unfit for use by the application of technical procedures which are guaranteed by an official body or recognized by such a body;

(b)

are designed for alarm, signalling, life-saving, animal slaughter or harpoon fishing or for industrial or technical purposes provided that they can be used for the stated purpose only;

(c)

are regarded as antique weapons or reproductions of such where these have not been included in the previous categories and are subject to national laws.

Pending coordination throughout the Community, Member States may apply their national laws to the firearms listed in this Section.

IV.

For the purposes of this Annex:

(a)

‘short firearm’ means a firearm with a barrel not exceeding 30 centimetres or whose overall length does not exceed 60 centimetres;

(b)

‘long firearm’ means any firearm other than a short firearm;

(c)

‘automatic firearm’ means a firearm which reloads automatically each time a round is fired and can fire more than one round with one pull on the trigger;

(d)

‘semi-automatic firearm’ means a firearm which reloads automatically each time a round is fired and can fire only one round with one pull on the trigger;

(e)

‘repeating firearm’ means a firearm which after a round has been fired is designed to be reloaded from a magazine or cylinder by means of a manually-operated action;

(f)

‘single-shot firearm’ means a firearm with no magazine which is loaded before each shot by the manual insertion of a round into the chamber or a loading recess at the breech of the barrel;

(g)

‘ammunition with penetrating projectiles’ means ammunition for military use where the projectile is jacketed and has a penetrating hard core;

(h)

‘ammunition with explosive projectiles’ means ammunition for military use where the projectile contains a charge which explodes on impact;

(i)

‘ammunition with incendiary projectiles’ means ammunition for military use where the projectile contains a chemical mixture which bursts into flame on contact with the air or on impact.

You also have to remember, what is likely to be banned or further restricted in the future. Its only a matter of time before one of Angela Merkels "new Germans" from the middle east, goes on the rampage again. Then the eu will look for other things to ban, no telling where the axe will fall.

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

The point of was really to find a way around the magazine capacity limit, so is it possible to license one as a "belt fed rifle" or something like that, because it technically isn't semi-automatic?

Yup, you could...If you lose the semi-auto feature and turn it into a very heavy straight-pull bolt action rifle.
The French had this problem as there are/were a few Resistance war souvenirs of MG42s and the like in some French shooters cabinets, so a conversion to
straight-pull bolt action was the compromise rather than the destruction of historic French artefacts,under the current EU directive.
They do have a sort of pragmatic solution to problems,the French and the "loading device" in relation to belts/links was taken to mean such.

How exactly does the definition work with that? There's a different EU definition for semi-automatic than the Irish one, so which one takes precedent?

The EU as it is a directive that has to be implemented into Irish law.

Is there a dealer that has 7.62x39 in stock and how much does it cost? The firearm I linked was just an example, I wish I had 15 grand to spend on a rifle:D

Couple of "dealer samples" of SKS knocking about...So it must be gettable. Still relatively cheap as there are billions of Russian and Chinese rounds out there.

or something like that, because it technically isn't semi automatic?

I'm a bit lost here, why do you say 'technically isn't semi automatic'?

Does it or does it not reload itself after it fires a round?
Whether blow back, gas operated, a chain gun etc, etc it is a semi automatic. Now if it lever release or MAR style in its function and it met the other EU Regs then it could be ok.

As a EU member state we take our direction from EU directives, theres mechanisms to ensure no constitutional issues and the measures of policing, enforcement and penalties can be down to individual member states.

I think you are chasing moon beams with that interpretation / argument.

Look at a certain court case that was ruled on recently in relation to hot water, glass jugs and too a degree common sense. It basically said that not everything had to be in writing for common sense or practical applications to prevail.

The over arching EU Directive would fall into place pull that loop hole shut.

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

How exactly does the definition work with that? There's a different EU definition for semi automatic than the Irish one, so which one takes precedent?

They are separate documents. The EU document lists prohibitive weapons.
The Irish one defines restricted vrs non restricted. Both apply.

Eg. Under the Irish SI, an AK47 is a restricted firearm, as it only defines non-restricted and everything else.
But an AK is also prohibited under EU law.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yup, you could...If you lose the semi-auto feature and turn it into a very heavy straight-pull bolt action rifle.

I was going to suggest that convert into a MARS action would satisfy the SI.
However it's still too long, so you'd have to chop 20cm or so off the end

cookimonster wrote:

I'm a bit lost here, why do you say 'technically isn't semi automatic'?

Does it or does it not reload itself after it fires a round?
Whether blow back, gas operated, a chain gun etc, etc it is a semi automatic. Now if it lever release or MAR style in its function and it met the other EU Regs then it could be ok.

I think it was just a tongue in cheek look that the SI definition of semi-auto. Which is limited to mag or cylinder.
But as pointed out, not meeting the definition for a semi doesn't put it in the non-restricted category.