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outline of e-scooter legislation announced

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    #2
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Brilliant, obviously the devil will be in the detail, but sounds good.


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    #3
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    so are they keeping a distinction between eBikes and these new "powered personal transporters" ? Not sure I can see a reason why - if it's designed for a single passenger, with a max of 25 and max power of 250W does it matter whether it has pedals; 1, 2 or 3 wheels etc.

    Under the current legislation (largely unenforced) if you have a throttle on your eBike, it's not legal. Will it be legal under the new regs though, it would effectively be a scooter with pedals. The distinction seems artificial, but I guess we'll see.


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    #4
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Wouldn't mind seeing a strict over 16s only on them
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #5
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    While I'm happy to see you don't need a licence, tax or insurance for these I can't say I agree with them in their current form. They all seem to require one push and the motor does the rest. I never see anyone propelling themselves on them. If I had a legal eBike I'd have to continuously pedal. I don't see how that's entirely different to a throttle bike, unless I'm missing something?


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    #6
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    MOD: This sort of stuff is not welcome here and off topic, take it elsewhere.


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    #7
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    While I'm happy to see you don't need a licence, tax or insurance for these I can't say I agree with them in their current form. They all seem to require one push and the motor does the rest. I never see anyone propelling themselves on them. If I had a legal eBike I'd have to continuously pedal. I don't see how that's entirely different to a throttle bike, unless I'm missing something?

    They seem to be suggesting changes for ebikes too:
    Legislation relating to ebikes

    Under current Irish law, ebikes are not classed as ‘mechanically propelled vehicles’ (MPVs) or as pedal bicycles. Ebikes will now be legislated for using EU standards as a reference point and will be treated mainly in the same way as pedal cycles while the more powerful models of eBike will be treated as light mopeds.


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    #8
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,301 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    bk wrote: »
    They seem to be suggesting changes for ebikes too:
    not really much sign of change there though, at least on 'qualifying' ebikes?
    "Ebikes ... will be treated mainly in the same way as pedal cycles"
    this is the current situation, the only qualifier is 'mainly'

    "while the more powerful models of eBike will be treated as light mopeds."
    this is how the law would currently regard them anyway, maybe the new law will specify some changes or just make it explicit that they need licence/helmet, etc.


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    #9
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Thread cleaned up -- can we keep this about the new regulations and not pet hates etc that people have about scooterists, cyclists or their neighbours etc -- moderator


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    #10
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    not really much sign of change there though, at least on 'qualifying' ebikes?
    "Ebikes ... will be treated mainly in the same way as pedal cycles"
    this is the current situation, the only qualifier is 'mainly'

    "while the more powerful models of eBike will be treated as light mopeds."
    this is how the law would currently regard them anyway, maybe the new law will specify some changes or just make it explicit that they need licence/helmet, etc.

    Yeah, sounds like SPeds might come in like a <125cc moped after the changes.


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    #11
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,301 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    will be interesting to see how they might be differentiated; at the moment, there are a few ways in which an e-bike can fall outside regs; if they provide assistance past 25km/h; if the motor is greater than 250W; or if they provide assistance irrespective of the person pedalling.

    i wonder will they lump all bikes violating at least one of these into the same category? or will there be any attempt to categorise them?


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    #12
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    will be interesting to see how they might be differentiated; at the moment, there are a few ways in which an e-bike can fall outside regs; if they provide assistance past 25km/h; if the motor is greater than 250W; or if they provide assistance irrespective of the person pedalling.

    i wonder will they lump all bikes violating at least one of these into the same category? or will there be any attempt to categorise them?

    If you breach either power or throttle regs you must be type rated by EU regs under 2002/24/EC(+Regulation (EU) No 168/2013). Type rating brings with it all the normal requirements for that class.

    Not sure Ryan can bypass the european standard, just align Irish law with it.



    Interesting question: What would Coilte say if your eMTB is technically a moped. You can't drive a motorbike around Ticknock...


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    #13
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    ED E wrote: »
    .
    Not sure Ryan can bypass the european standard, just align Irish law with it.

    They can bypass it. It has been done with other classes of vehicle.

    EU regs mean nothing. What matters is what is written in Irish domestic law.

    I expect a simple but clear definition of what is legal much like the current definition of a MPV.


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    #14
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    They are putting the current trends on environment issues ahead of personal safety.

    No training??

    No lights or at best zero compliance to current lighting legislation on vehicles.

    Many will not be at the set power limits and easily made to go well over 50kph.

    They amount of near misses I have had with these things in urban areas, with mainly children is not acceptable.


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    #15
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,301 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    No lights or at best zero compliance to current lighting legislation on vehicles.

    Many will not be at the set power limits and easily made to go well over 50kph.
    i don't think that detail has yet been announced. but yes, the law will be useless without enforcement.


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    #16
    seanoge
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭seanoge


    I live in the Uk and have a pre 2016 bike with Throttle. They were made illegal over here about a year later but with Grandfather rights I can still legally ride it. I have looked at newer ones but fail to see how it works with a Hill start. I am 75 so need all the assistance I can get. I am looking to downsize to 20" wheels and send this bike to a Friend in Sligo. I take it it would be illegal for him to ride iT?


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    #17
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,301 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'm not aware of an analogous situation here where it would ever have been legal, my assumption would be that the law would always have stated it's a moped. however, the situation is fluid in that we don't yet know exactly what the new legislation will state on these.


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    #18
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    As far as I know, they would have been classified as a mechanically propelled vehicle (probably moped) under pre-existing legislation. In Ireland, it's not a case that they were made illegal recently. When they became popular, they already fell under a category in a wider vehicle licensing scheme.


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    #19
    seanoge
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭seanoge


    On newer bikes here you are allowed a Throttle that is restricted to 6km(walking Speed).


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