What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

mick087 · 27-01-2021 09:13AM

McGiver wrote: »

Give me officially sources else I report you for trolling.

If you feel what i have said is untrue then report me.

27-01-2021 09:16AM

McGiver wrote: »

Brexiters can't open the EU commission website?

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/SPEECH_21_211

You may wish to call Mr Keersmaecker if unsure.

The above press release I hope stops these speculations. We the EU, funded development of the AZ vaccine, we signed a contract and preordered 300M doses. AZ is now reneging on that contract. End of the story.

I actually feel embarrassed for you

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 27-01-2021 09:21AM

mick087 wrote: »

The EU have simpley let its citizens down.
When other countries was ordering the EU was negotiating a deal for a vaccine being made not for profit.
Even though this vaccine was cheap they still needed to be seen to be getting a better deal.
Even now this Oxford vaccine has still not been approved by the EU.
They are having a meeting Friday to discuss .What are these people doing?

We are 3 months behind the UK in buying the vaccine this is simlply just not good enough.

The factory is moving location there is no conspiracy theories no other country is getting our share. All other countries will also face a delay.

The EU was slow to order and now slow to approve its use.
Once again there is no accountability from the EU selected commission. Everyone else is to blame but them, A total utter shambles.

Why did this only become news on Friday all of a sudden though? Why hasn't it been mentioned for weeks/months?

noodler · 27-01-2021 09:22AM

It's a good thing we didn't pay Astra all the money upfront.

The CEO interview made alot of sense I have to say. Some people are definitely forgetting that their one has been done on a NFP basis.

Pete_Cavan · 27-01-2021 09:25AM

mick087 wrote: »

The EU have simpley let its citizens down.
When other countries was ordering the EU was negotiating a deal for a vaccine being made not for profit.
Even though this vaccine was cheap they still needed to be seen to be getting a better deal.
Even now this Oxford vaccine has still not been approved by the EU.
They are having a meeting Friday to discuss .What are these people doing?

We are 3 months behind the UK in buying the vaccine this is simlply just not good enough.

The factory is moving location there is no conspiracy theories no other country is getting our share. All other countries will also face a delay.

The EU was slow to order and now slow to approve its use.
Once again there is no accountability from the EU selected commission. Everyone else is to blame but them, A total utter shambles.

AZ committed to a particular delivery schedule at the time of contract signing (or possibly even before that as an understanding had already been reach, without full contract signing). AZ were fully aware of their other commitments to other customers at that time of EU contract signing.

When the EU signed relative to the UK is irrelevant, AZ made specific commitments to the EU at that time. If AZ couldn't meet those commitments at the time of signing, they shouldn't have signed up or had schedules adjusted accordingly.

This is a clear breach of contract, simple as that. Waffling on about the EU signing after UK is just a smokescreen for those looking to have a go at the EU and/or distract from the UKs dismissal handling since the start of the pandemic.

Red Silurian · 27-01-2021 09:33AM

Another phone call due today on the matter between the commission and AZ

From my reading, the commission is suggesting that AZ used EU funds to build supply for non-EU states and AZ haven't really said anything... Could be an interesting few days ahead of us

mick087 · 27-01-2021 09:46AM

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Why did this only become news on Friday all of a sudden though? Why hasn't it been mentioned for weeks/months?

Its a very good question and one that id like to know the answer to myself.

fly_agaric · 27-01-2021 09:50AM

noodler wrote: »

The CEO interview made alot of sense I have to say. Some people are definitely forgetting that their one has been done on a NFP basis.

Would tend to credit the Oxford researchers rather than the friendly multinational drug company with that.

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote:

Why did this only become news on Friday all of a sudden though? Why hasn't it been mentioned for weeks/months?

Yes, this all seems to have emerged very suddenly in the news, I mean the vaccine is expected to be approved for use very, very soon in the EU.

Without getting into all the "rah rah GB great/EU bad - Hail Brexit" bollox that poisons discussion...why hasn't it come out publically before that the company is having problems?

It seems they are quite a way off being able to supply the numbers of doses they promised.

LollipopJimmy · 27-01-2021 09:51AM

Did anybody expect a company named after an Opel to be reliable?

mick087 · 27-01-2021 09:58AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

AZ committed to a particular delivery schedule at the time of contract signing (or possibly even before that as an understanding had already been reach, without full contract signing). AZ were fully aware of their other commitments to other customers at that time of EU contract signing.

When the EU signed relative to the UK is irrelevant, AZ made specific commitments to the EU at that time. If AZ couldn't meet those commitments at the time of signing, they shouldn't have signed up or had schedules adjusted accordingly.

This is a clear breach of contract, simple as that. Waffling on about the EU signing after UK is just a smokescreen for those looking to have a go at the EU and/or distract from the UKs dismissal handling since the start of the pandemic.

I accept all this about AZ BUT

Why was the EU 3 months behind other countries ordering?
Why has the EU still not approved the cheap oxford vaccine?

Waffling on about contracts dont tell me why we was not first or second to order the vaccine. We was slow to order and are slow to approve its use.

We was sitting around negotiating to buy a non for profit vaccine at 3 quid a pop and trying to get this for for less.

As we was doing this other countries was buying.

AZ will not it seems have all the vaccines not only for us but every other country who ordered. The countries that got in first was correct to do so. The EU have messed up that is not waffle

Dempo1 · 27-01-2021 09:58AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

AZ committed to a particular delivery schedule at the time of contract signing (or possibly even before that as an understanding had already been reach, without full contract signing). AZ were fully aware of their other commitments to other customers at that time of EU contract signing.

When the EU signed relative to the UK is irrelevant, AZ made specific commitments to the EU at that time. If AZ couldn't meet those commitments at the time of signing, they shouldn't have signed up or had schedules adjusted accordingly.

This is a clear breach of contract, simple as that. Waffling on about the EU signing after UK is just a smokescreen for those looking to have a go at the EU and/or distract from the UKs dismissal handling since the start of the pandemic.

Not so, AZ CEO stating quite clearly and categorically the contract states "to the best of their ability" in relat to delivering of vaccines.

I find it hard to understand how the EU or any entity could expect a company to copper fasten a definitive date of delivery for a product that at the time was still in development let alone approved, it's just beggars belief from a contractual point of view.

This company had contracts elsewhere, is it seriously being suggested by the EU that AZ were not permitted to commence deliveries to countries who have already approved its vaccine use.

The supply issue is the issue, THE EU can have its tantrums, threaten, make wild accusations etc, I for one know how that's going to end.

fly_agaric · 27-01-2021 10:07AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Not so, AZ CEO stating quite clearly and categorically the contract states "to the best of their ability" in relat to delivering of vaccines...

The supply issue is the issue, THE EU can have its tantrums, threaten, make wild accusations etc, I for one know how that's going to end.

If people want to sneer at Europa links or the public statements by EU commission, well the company CEO would not seem to be an impartial source on the matter.

I don't think anyone knows how this will end.

Hopefully the EU will be able to extract some retribution on our behalf if we've been swindled. That would be to all our benefit.

Pete_Cavan · 27-01-2021 10:08AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Not so, AZ CEO stating quite clearly and categorically the contract states "to the best of their ability" in relat to delivering of vaccines.

I find it hard to understand how the EU or any entity could expect a company to copper fasten a definitive date of delivery for a product that at the time was still in development let alone approved, it's just beggars belief from a contractual point of view.

This company had contracts elsewhere, is it seriously being suggested by the EU that AZ were not permitted to commence deliveries to countries who have already approved its vaccine use.

The supply issue is the issue, THE EU can have its tantrums, threaten, make wild accusations etc, I for one know how that's going to end.

"To the best of their ability" doesn't mean you can send vaccines elsewhere. If they have the ability to supply more vaccines to the EU, which seems to be the case, then they are clearly required to do that. Diverting supply elsewhere is not acting "to the best of their ability".

Pete_Cavan · 27-01-2021 10:17AM

mick087 wrote: »

I accept all this about AZ BUT

Why was the EU 3 months behind other countries ordering?
Why has the EU still not approved the cheap oxford vaccine?

Waffling on about contracts dont tell me why we was not first or second to order the vaccine. We was slow to order and are slow to approve its use.

We was sitting around negotiating to buy a non for profit vaccine at 3 quid a pop and trying to get this for for less.

As we was doing this other countries was buying.

AZ will not it seems have all the vaccines not only for us but every other country who ordered. The countries that got in first was correct to do so. The EU have messed up that is not waffle

I haven't seen it suggested that the delay was due to trying to get it for less. I assume you don't know that to be the case either seeing as you ask "why was the EU 3 months behind other countries ordering". They may have wanted to assess all the research to ensure the newly created product that they were about to pay €1bn for actually does what it says on the tin.

Part of the delay with the approval is with info submitted by AZ. If issues were to arise due to shortcutting the approvals process, fast approval wouldn't look so smart.

noodler · 27-01-2021 10:37AM

fly_agaric wrote: »

Would tend to credit the Oxford researchers rather than the friendly multinational drug company with that.

Eh, ok?

Doesn't really change the fact that the NFP status removes a motivation for some of the things they are being accused of.

Call me Al · 27-01-2021 10:42AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

"To the best of their ability" doesn't mean you can send vaccines elsewhere. If they have the ability to supply more vaccines to the EU, which seems to be the case, then they are clearly required to do that. Diverting supply elsewhere is not acting "to the best of their ability".

The EU have stated very directly that they paid
€€€€ specifically so that supply issues wouldn't arise come licensing approval.
So they (we) have a legitimate right to know why this isn't the case. A shrug of the shoulders on the part of AZ really isn't good enough.

Pete_Cavan · 27-01-2021 10:52AM

Call me Al wrote: »

The EU have stated very directly that they paid
€€€€ specifically so that supply issues wouldn't arise come licensing approval.
So they (we) have a legitimate right to know why this isn't the case. A shrug of the shoulders on the part of AZ really isn't good enough.

Yes, its possible, even likely, that nobody would be receiving this vaccine had the EU not pumped money upfront into its development and manufacture. The EU funded them and now they have let the EU down.

Donald Trump · 27-01-2021 10:53AM

If it is shown that EU pre-paid supplies were instead shipped to other buyers then the AZ management should be done for at least theft.

If there are other charges for endangering public health or similar, they should be tacked on as well

Tenzor07 · 27-01-2021 10:56AM

Well, what's the next steps here for the EU, nationalizing the company on an emergency basis so they meet the agreement with the EU for supply of the vaccine?

https://www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-cancels-steering-board-meeting-with-eu/

mick087 · 27-01-2021 10:58AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I haven't seen it suggested that the delay was due to trying to get it for less. I assume you don't know that to be the case either seeing as you ask "why was the EU 3 months behind other countries ordering". They may have wanted to assess all the research to ensure the newly created product that they were about to pay €1bn for actually does what it says on the tin.

Part of the delay with the approval is with info submitted by AZ. If issues were to arise due to shortcutting the approvals process, fast approval wouldn't look so smart.

Im sure your aware the world is in crisis' time like this call for emergency measures IMO the EU seems to of let us down.

mick087 · 27-01-2021 11:01AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Well, what's the next steps here for the EU, nationalizing the company on an emergency basis so they meet the agreement with the EU for supply of the vaccine?

https://www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-cancels-steering-board-meeting-with-eu/

Nationalizing such companies is an excellent idea but unless every country did the same they would just pack up and move.

The Vaccine should of been a world wide effort with equal roll out from day 1 but a bit to late in the day now i think.

Donald Trump · 27-01-2021 11:06AM

mick087 wrote: »

Nationalizing such companies is an excellent idea but unless every country did the same they would just pack up and move.

The Vaccine should of been a world wide effort with equal roll out from day 1 but a bit to late in the day now i think.

For a poster that is consistently anti-EU in almost every post related to covid (or Brexit), it seems strange that you would be suggesting countries handing over control of something like this to an as-yet-unformed pan-global body to tell them what to do ...............

Tenzor07 · 27-01-2021 11:09AM

mick087 wrote: »

Nationalizing such companies is an excellent idea but unless every country did the same they would just pack up and move.
The Vaccine should of been a world wide effort with equal roll out from day 1 but a bit to late in the day now i think.

Just seems Bizarre under the circumstances that this sort of "petulance" is happening with one of the big pharma companies, shows you the power they have over the world..

When a company is holding the key to preventing further economic/social/human damage to the World, then surely all commercial concerns should be abandoned and Wartime levels of production should be in place...

In World war 2 factories were commandeered to make munitions, with the 100,000 of thousands who've died due to Covid I think it's time to step up here and get this vaccine production into overdrive..

Pete_Cavan · 27-01-2021 11:10AM

mick087 wrote: »

Im sure your aware the world is in crisis' time like this call for emergency measures IMO the EU seems to of let us down.

AZs own words;

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/astraz/media-centre/press-releases/2020/astrazeneca-to-supply-europe-with-up-to-400-million-doses-of-oxford-universitys-vaccine-at-no-profit.html

AstraZeneca has reached an agreement with Europe’s Inclusive Vaccines Alliance (IVA), spearheaded by Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands, to supply up to 400 million doses of the University of Oxford’s COVID-19 vaccine, with deliveries starting by the end of 2020.

Note that is dated 13 June 2020. Two months before the contract was signed, they agreed to deliveries starting by the end of 2020. They were clearly working to that schedule before the contract was actually signed. If timeline had changed by the time of contract signing in August, AZ should have had amendments made. Clearly AZ are letting the EU down and almost certainly breaching the contract.

brickster69 · 27-01-2021 11:13AM

Pointless talking about the terms of the contract that we do not know or probably will not see.

However the EU in effect had a deal agreed with AZ a month after the UK which would of put it further ahead than now.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/coalition-of-countries-aims-to-keep-covid-19-vaccine-manufacturing-in-europe/

Then it was decided the EU itself would handle negotiations on behalf of the bloc as a whole. They then spent an extra two months accomplishing the same result.

Hurrache · 27-01-2021 11:14AM

mick087 wrote: »

Im sure your aware the world is in crisis' time like this call for emergency measures IMO the EU seems to of let us down.

Why are you still pushing this when you've been smacked in the face by reality on this thread alone for days?

mick087 · 27-01-2021 11:15AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

For a poster that is consistently anti-EU in almost every post related to covid (or Brexit), it seems strange that you would be suggesting countries handing over control of something like this to an as-yet-unformed pan-global body to tell them what to do ...............

Such times like this emergenices measures are required Europe is in a mess with the virus.
IMO the world does seem to be pinning its hope on this Oxford vaccine this seems to be cheap and easier to transport. Again IMO the EU is not handling this well.

Russman · 27-01-2021 11:16AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Not so, AZ CEO stating quite clearly and categorically the contract states "to the best of their ability" in relat to delivering of vaccines.

I find it hard to understand how the EU or any entity could expect a company to copper fasten a definitive date of delivery for a product that at the time was still in development let alone approved, it's just beggars belief from a contractual point of view.

This company had contracts elsewhere, is it seriously being suggested by the EU that AZ were not permitted to commence deliveries to countries who have already approved its vaccine use.
.

Yes, absolutely. That's what the EU paid for, apparently. Just because the EU weren't ready to accept delivery of the purchased goods, doesn't mean they can be sold elsewhere. Obviously if that's what actually transpired.

mick087 · 27-01-2021 11:17AM

Hurrache wrote: »

Why are you still pushing this when you've been smacked in the face by reality on this thread alone for days?

If one don't agree does one be silent?

MrMusician18 · 27-01-2021 11:17AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Just seems Bizarre under the circumstances that this sort of "petulance" is happening with one of the big pharma companies, shows you the power they have over the world..

When a company is holding the key to preventing further economic damage to the World, then surely all commercial concerns should be abandoned and Wartime levels of production should be in place...

In World war 2 factories were commandeered to make munitions, with the 100,000 of thousands who've died due to Covid I think it's time to step up here and get this vaccine production into overdrive..

The problem with commandeering resources is that in a global supply chain, there is nothing stopping others from doing the exact same thing.

Action like the above I would imagine would slow, if not completely halt production.

It will be interesting to see what the EU does do. If the EU fails here, or does appear to be laggards, I guess the institutions fear that it could give rise to legitimate anti-EU sentiment.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Comments