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Copper fouling

  • 20-01-2021 1:53pm
    #1
    Half-cocked
    Registered Users Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭


    Just wondering roughly how many shots folks with centre fire rifles get before copper fouling becomes an issue? In my case, with a Howa 1500 .22-250 using 55gr bullets, at about 80-90 shots there is a quite sudden and serious loss of accuracy. A good scrub with copper solvent and I'm back to sub 1" groups at 100 metres. Is this normal?


Comments

  • #2
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    It can be, and quite easily.

    Every bullet deposits copper particles and depending on the land/grooves of your barrel, length, cleaning regime, etc. this deposit can be slow or quick accumulating.

    On a side, but very related, note have you access to a bore scope? If so take a look at the muzzle of your rifle. This will startle you. I consider myself a thorough cleaner as i take hours to clean my rifles when doing a "deep clean". After one such clean, many years back, i noticed a slight imperfection in zero. I fouled the rifle barrel with a few shots, but no change. I got the loan of a bore scope and this is when someone said to start at the muzzle. The copper fouling was substantial at the muzzle but the rest of the bore was spotless.

    The reason for this is my method of cleaning. The process was fine (relatively), but because i was sending all the cleaning products and patches from the action/breach by the time the rod/jag made its way down to the muzzle it was almost dry and hence no cleaning products were getting to the fouling in the last 3 inches of the barrel. After that i altered my cleaning process to soak the bore even going so far as to plug the barrel with an ear plug or similar to make sure the cleaning products stayed within the bore and done their job.

    If i were you i would do a deep, deep clean. In essence you'd be taking the rifle bore back to "factory settings". This would require aggressive and prolonged cleaning. This DOES NOT mean scrub the crap out of your barrel, but rather use the proper cleaners in the right order and let them sit and work. I find a lot of people tend to get bored, myself included, when cleaning and go at cleaning out the chemicals before they're had time to work.

    Clean the rifle bore down to the "bare metal" and give particular attention to the last 3 inches of the bore including the muzzle.

    You can use my guide as a reference if it helps
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #3
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    I thought you got stopped by the guards.


  • #4
    alanmc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭alanmc


    So Cass, when you do your deep clean, do you "fill" the bunged up barrel with solvent and let it sit "muzzle down" as it were?

    I might try this. All my rifles have easily removable barrels making this an easier prospect.


  • #5
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Depends on what you use to clean.

    I used to use a foam, but now a liquid, but even the foam would turn liquid in a short period of time. I would bung the muzzle and allow the rifle to stand muzzle down for a short while (in a plastic tub to avoid spillage and to soak the crown) to make sure it got plenty of solvent, but i wouldn't fill the barrel. Only allow slow dripping inside the bore then place the rifle on a horizontal rest for cleaning. I also used a much smaller caliber (three piece) rod using only one piece of it to agitate the fouling at the muzzle without harming the crown.

    The biggest issue i've found is using the proper solvents for the job and in the right sequence. Don't go for the copper solvent first as there is dirt and carbon build up lining the bore. Clean this out first and when its cleaned out, exposing the copper fouling, then move onto the copper solvent.

    Another good piece of advice is use non brass jags and attachments. Try get proof-positive jags which won't give a false "reading". Scrubbing helps but really shouldn't be necessary when cleaning. The solvent should do the work. The only job the jags/attachments have is to remove the solvents and fouling the solvents have dissolved/loosened.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #6
    alanmc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭alanmc


    Cass wrote: »
    Depends on what you use to clean.

    Another good piece of advice is use non brass jags and attachments. Try get proof-positive jags which won't give a false "reading". Scrubbing helps but really shouldn't be necessary when cleaning. The solvent should do the work. The only job the jags/attachments have is to remove the solvents and fouling the solvents have dissolved/loosened.

    I use the ProShot jags. They seem to made of aluminium or something equally as light. Shouldn't get a false positive from these. Been using the Forrest Foam in the past but recently just using Hoppes #9 for carbon and then M-Pro 7 for copper. Hell, I'm not shooting anything at the moment, so I'm cleaning out if boredom :D Good Dog, I miss going to the range.


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  • #7
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I used to use forrest foam and while I found it a good everyday cleaner i soon found it did not remove everything and moved to Wipe out and other more "harsh" solvents which i only use occasionally.

    For "everyday" cleaning i switched from a "one size fits all" type cleaner because they don't really clean everything to more specific types. I use KG1 for carbon removal, then KG 12 for Copper. I keep cleaning until the patches are wet and clean then use oil and finally meth spirits to wipe out the bore as a finish.

    I used to use Rimfire Blend for my rimfire rifles, but cannot get it anymore so use the wipe out but less frequently.

    The different types of cleaner require more time, but they do a far better job.

    The Wipeout does everything but its harsh. It won't damage the bore but you need to be in a well ventilated area using it as its ammonia based and will give you breathing issues and a headache if you try it indoors.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #8
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The Pro-Shot jags are the same as a proof positive. They won't give false readings so stick with them.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #9
    SVI40
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭SVI40


    Cass,

    Where do/did you get the KG1? My current ammo is leaving a horrible build up of carbon on the slide of my pistol.

    Thanks.


  • #10
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Lakelands and McBrides were my go to, but i haven't bought a bottle in over 3 years (due to covid, my lack of shooting, and having other cleaning products).

    If you find some let me know, but i see none listed on any sites even though they may have it in stock .
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #11
    clivej
    Registered Users Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭clivej


    I use 'Brake and clutch' cleaner to remove carbon. Halfords, Aldi etc. It does what it says it will do. Then K12 to remove any copper fouling.


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  • #12
    SVI40
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭SVI40


    clivej wrote: »
    I use 'Brake and clutch' cleaner to remove carbon. Halfords, Aldi etc. It does what it says it will do. Then K12 to remove any copper fouling.

    Yep, I've tired that, but this carbon is rock hard. I've to scrape of first then some very fine steel wool. Just a pain as it's inside the slide, so difficult to get at.


  • #13
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭jb88


    SVI40 wrote: »
    Cass,

    Where do/did you get the KG1? My current ammo is leaving a horrible build up of carbon on the slide of my pistol.

    Thanks.

    Paddy Carley is the person to contact about KG1 and KG12. He should have plenty of it


  • #14
    SVI40
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭SVI40


    jb88 wrote: »
    Paddy Carley is the person to contact about KG1 and KG12. He should have plenty of it

    Many thanks, I'll give him a shout so.


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