Limerick Sovereigns wrote: »

I have considered the idea of building and licencing a 25m or 50 m range when the kids are reared and semi-retirement becomes an option. I have been passively scouting for a location as I travel the region while working.

I think that the Castlebridge range in Wexford might be a model that could be replicated and improved. Basically, its a disused industrial building (maybe an abattoir) that is well away from any neighbours. This makes noise a non-issue so the only other problems are ventilation and baffles/buttstops. Its not Midlands, but if there was one in every county that currently has nothing it might make a difference. I'm open to correction from those involved, but it can't have cost a king's ransom to get off the ground.

My suggestion for action: Invite interest in starting a project off-line so that a small group of motivated people could design a template for:

1) A small affordable indoor range.
2) A small affordable outdoor range.

which would meet DoJ standards.

I think that this would be a valuable resource to anyone who wanted to give such a project a go. However, anyone doing so who thinks that they will get rich from it is dreaming. These types of ranges/clubs would just about break even in most locations in my opinion so it would most likely be a labour of love that would benefit the sport rather than an individual. If someone makes a few quid then all the better but you wouldn't want to be trying to pay your mortgage from the subscriptions.

Obviously, the templates would have to be altered to suit any individual site, but the specification would also describe the features to look for in a site or building in the first place.

Is this suggestion worth developing? I would certainly chip in for what little my knowledge is worth.

An indoor 50m range in Ireland, super idea , we would all be spoilt.

Seriously though, easy option would be 40 foot shipping containers welded together, your only downfall would be the restriction in numbers who could shoot. Probably not viable for an ongoing enterprise.

As you said, build costs crazy here and you will not get rich on it, best options would be a block built old warehouse that could be converted.

Probably too expensive for just one person, never mind to run it, this is where a group of like minded people could make a go of it, subject to planning and licensing which is a mountain to climb in itself.

I'll take these both together as there is a lot of crossovers.
As some of ye might know I have been looking at getting something started in a range closer to to the Limerick /Ennis region for the last ten years.As there is literally a desert between Limerick, Galway and up as far as Lough Bo.In short there is a market in this area.

I too have looked at some very suitable buildings, inc my own backyard, where we have an overroofed triple former silage clamp and machinery shed that would have been ideal, and was actually Ok by Mr G from the DOJ.
As well as a quarry up the road from me,and the former factory we owned and built-in Limerick in the 1960s, now developed into a fine massive warehouse facility and machine park. All of the owners were sold on the idea at first,but then within thinking of it were off it and didn't want to know within 48 hours.

What killed me on my own property was the entranceway traffic turning right is turning blind on the main road where we have enough boy racers and heavy trucks coming down from a quarry. And of course, we cant modify the entrance,as it is a listed feature, with a listed gate lodge in the way. Ah, the joys of living in a listed country house.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

One of the many troubles with these plans is money, planning permission and the hassles with it, then getting all 3 parties of CC , AGS, and DOJ to sing in the same hymn sheet So this idea of getting real estate first,is going to be a major problem.
Hence I think the idea of the "portable shooting range" is going to be the solution to this on a county level. I
t's a lot easier to rent off someone, or even buy a bit of land for a container park than a range, usually in some industrial part of a city or town, so there will be traffic and parking and noise anyway in some shape or form.

It's not a permanent structure as it is on a trailer, nor is it wired to power as it has it's own genny, Soundproof, Modular so you can add or subtract units which come in nice easy to work with figures,10,20,40 feet. Got an idea too for making these four-bay shooting. two standing, two kneeling, sitting /prone, making it also disabled/wheelchair friendly.
Pretty easy to construct bullet traps for it as well, and clean them too. A lot easier to move about with a truck and a lifter than try moving an installed range or the like once the landowner gets cold feet and your lease is up.

What sort of money are you looking at. Depending on your skillsets and how much you do and splash out on materials,[steel mostly]. I'd estimate the price of a good 2nd hand jeep 15/20k for a 40 footer.

I'm a firm believer in this case", if you build it they will come" in the area I've mentioned. You are not out a huge amount if they don't for some reason, and if it does take off and you are at a "please take a number" crowd every day you are open, buy /build another container, and put it besides,on top of the other.:)

Once we get an approved design by the DOJ. IE specs, steel required etc. There is then an approved standard design for all of these portable ranges to be built on. They won't be pretty, but if they get people shooting or having a place to drop in and pop off a few rounds after work, or wanting to check their zeros rather than spend a couple of hours driving to ranges on their days off...Wouldnt that be a good thing?

If you are wondering why I'm giving away a potential business idea here.
I Don't care!! I want people out shooting with the least hassle to them logistically and legally. There will be plenty of a market for everyone, and it is still a sufficient investment and hassle and paperwork involved to get this going. You still have to found a club as it stands, and that's a job in itself.

So please have at it someone if you want to.:)

yubabill wrote: »

I'm as guilty as anyone of posting political stuff on here, so I'll give my hot take on your question.

For me, it started with hunters getting attacked in online forums by antis, where we found that if we stuck together, we could achieve something.

Then we got the semi-auto thing from Martin Callinan and co., which led to a public hearing (linked in the previous posts) which again achieved something of a stalemate, at least and not an outright crackdown.

The latest was the EU firearms directive, which involved many of us contacting politicians directly. And again, we saw a compromise of sorts.

And so we arrive here, with the lead ban proposal. Another political thing.

Really, I don't want politics and shooting intertwined.

It would be lovely if we could just go about our business as many of us have done for decades, without incident.

Personally, I think that we should mellow on the politics side apart from the lead ban.

When I was 10 and my ol man bought me my 410.
I wish he had included a note or talk in it stating:
"If you take up this gun as your fathers and grandfathers did.I want you to know that in 40 years time you will spend many hours arguing, discussing, planning and spending a lot of your time on a thing called "the internet" on a "laptop" about the politics and dealing with politicians and people who have a problem with you owning this gun, and a few different types you will own in 30 years time and hunting. You will be involved in court cases, gambling your money on unsure outcomes to be congratulated and censored in equal measures. You will meet politicians, judges and lawmakers in equal measures in person to discuss and plan this topic both here and abroad. You will become one tough opinionated, no compromise, no backdown SOB with few friends, an acid tongue and a cynical attitude to all things and men, and spend as much time doing this as going hunting. Do you really want to have this gun?"::pac:

The simple fact is, whether you like it or not anymore if you want to own guns or shoot them you have to get political and discuss the politics these days.
If you want a quiet non-political hobby. Take up stamp collecting,or Bonzai gardening I guess.
Politics and shooting, hunting and gun-owning have been to me just as much a part of this as shooting and gutting a deer. Just part of the messy bit that's unavoidable.:)

But now my own dad, in his 60's, having always been a sports fanatic, especially Olympics and athletics, had said he always liked biathlon, but had never held a rifle. Once restrictions ease, I'm hoping to bring him up and show him the ropes!

I was just looking at some biathlon shooting. What they do is amazing considering their HR is about 185 BPM and they shoot standing and from off their elbows. I suggest you might do this for your father as this is something I had planned to do once the ranges open back up - it's just for fun. The prone biathlon targets are 45mm in diameter, the standing are 115mm. I was going to draw them out on paper with a compas and have a go myself at hitting them, all be it with about one third of the heart rate and relaxed.

Regarding shooting at steel as mentioned above - silhouettes are shot on steel targets and it's allowed. It's .22LR only and the sil's themselves are housed in their own little enclosure that catches the bullets - it's great craic and highly recommended. It may not be exactly what you're after but it's at least getting closer so give it a go if you ever get the chance at a range that has them.

GooseB wrote: »

I was just looking at some biathlon shooting. What they do is amazing considering their HR is about 185 BPM and they shoot standing and from off their elbows. I suggest you might do this for your father as this is something I had planned to do once the ranges open back up - it's just for fun. The prone biathlon targets are 45mm in diameter, the standing are 115mm. I was going to draw them out on paper with a compas and have a go myself at hitting them, all be it with about one third of the heart rate and relaxed.

That's a great idea, I might just do that!! I've only focussed on groups myself, other than getting a close zero, I've never really gone for bullseye's.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

2 Generations n my fam.From different sides of the Western world.
One in prewar1914 Imperial Germany, thru Weimar and WW2 and postwar Germany up to today.
The other side , Depression-era NYC and NJ although leaning more towards the fishing as it was cheaper to do , thru WW2 and post-war America.
Done because it was necessary to feed yourself and the fam in any way possible. rather than a "sport"

Irrespective of how we got into it,it is still a lifestyle choice. Anything that involves you surrendering your privacy and scrutiny by Govt and LE who decide if you are worthy of possessing such and whether you can participate in it cant be classified as a hobby.Does anyone know of any other sport that you would be scrutinised as much because of your equipment? I can't.

My grandfather (mother's dad) was stationed in Israel, I think, somewhere in the middle East anyway, for ww2, with some artillery group. One of the really big units fell on him, broke his legs, so he was sent home. He never talked about it, only heard after he passed, which at that time I was not even a teenager yet. It's one of my big regrets never getting to ask him about it.

GooseB wrote: »

Regarding shooting at steel as mentioned above - silhouettes are shot on steel targets and it's allowed. It's .22LR only and the sil's themselves are housed in their own little enclosure that catches the bullets - it's great craic and highly recommended. It may not be exactly what you're after but it's at least getting closer so give it a go if you ever get the chance at a range that has them.

Wasn't Nicholas Flood shooting centerfire silhouette? Where were they at that?

As part of the PR side of things we could try get the assistance of “Fieldsports Ireland” Fieldsports Britain have gone to their MPs and pass stuff about the Antis on to the Police. Just as part of it. They may have more of an idea about how to go about it.

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

The YouTube channel? His videos are very high quality and he has a very large subscriber base so that would be a good way to reach a wide audience. Yeah I agree, the Brits have gone through this before and would know what and what not to do.

Not that I have anything to do with them I just watch but Fieldsports Britain has a news segment so maybe if there was one on the Irish one it would be one way of spreading the word about issues arising and they would maybe get out to a wider audience quicker.

On that topic WhatsApp groups (or similar) should be set up with one member of all clubs who should pass around any information or with a region I think (or my experience in the past is) that if a club doesn’t attend a meeting then that information is not passed on to that club and so there are a lot of people that hear nothing about it.

One of the biggest problems re shooting and how it is viewed by the wider public is that it is only heard of when some sh1tehead goes and starts shooting raptors for god only knows why.
It will be on radio and news and it's near impossible to get people to believe that it's only the local dope doing it and it's not looked on as normal or ok by 99.9% of firearm owners.
Also there is no point in trying to convince people shooting Foxes is needed it's doomed to failure and no amount of facts and figures re shooting for conservation of ground nesting birds will convert them.Fox are too fecking cute and furry for people to agree on controlling them,and as someone who shoots a few each year I'm always slightly sad when I walk up on a shot fox in their full orange/red coat as they are a beautiful animal.
Sadly I think that unless you own land and have a herd number or are a member of a range the days of people getting firearms to walk around a few farmers fields and take some game will be a thing of the past in maybe a decade.
Most people's view of guns is an Americanised version which is so far from our situation it's a meaningless comparison.

dto001 wrote: »

With all the conservation things that clubs do this should be promoted. And clubs should document all the good they do and the various groups (nargc etc) shout promoted it.
There should also be something like what, I think, the BASC do in the uk and visit schools and show what it’s all about.
The problem is with all the ideas that have come up here how do we implement them?

FIK NARGC was doing a schools programme to counter ICABS a few years back? Dunno were both orgs then removed from the classrooms as being indoctrination?

Yes indeed doing things on a club level and getting shooting orgs to post about them is a good thing, but we have to be prepared for the emotive and irrational counter wails.

A stronger social media presence on YT would be a good start for Irish shooting.

How would you start something like that? Do you just fire up videos? I think that it should be done as a whole , target shooting, hunting, Fishing, ferreting, greyhounds, fox hunting, falconry, etc all together in one to show we are basically one. United we stand!!

Also there’s a lot of the irrational stuff as Grizzly says but it has to be countered with the good we do?

In respect to the clubs they also have to get away from the parish mentality and work together between them. Club membership is too small now a days not too.

dto001 wrote: »

How would you start something like that? Do you just fire up videos? I think that it should be done as a whole , target shooting, hunting, Fishing, ferreting, greyhounds, fox hunting, falconry, etc all together in one to show we are basically one. United we stand!!

Also there’s a lot of the irrational stuff as Grizzly says but it has to be countered with the good we do?

In respect to the clubs they also have to get away from the parish mentality and work together between them. Club membership is too small now a days not too.

I would think its needs to be far more professional than that, a proper trained Public relations person, be very careful whats put up, present it properly etc. The only well done videos of Irish shooting i see done are those done By Jason Doyle, and thats on an English channel.