Ireland & the Single Market post Brexit

ancapailldorcha · 07-01-2021 2:12pm #1

Since Brexit has now occurred and Irish trade with the rest of the EU may encounter logistical issues, I thought a separate thread from the main Brexit discussion may be warranted.

Please feel free to discuss issues with delays, ferries, transport & freight, etc here.

grayzer75 · 07-01-2021 2:19pm

Received this earlier - hauliers will be turned back at Cairnryan if the GMR won't validate on the Scottish side:

Dear Customer,

From 00:01 on Friday 8 January 2021, a GOODS MOVEMENT REFERENCE (GMR) is mandatory to be able to ship from Cairnryan to Larne.

GMRs that fail to validate for whatever reason will result in vehicles having to leave the Port of Cairnryan to rectify the situation.

Register now for your account with BEEMS where:

Transport Operators can:
• Add the GMR to BEEMS
• Link the transport operator, ferry operator, and nominated driver to share GMR status information received from GVMS

Drivers will receive:
• Notification to proceed to check in at the ferry terminal
• Notification if an inspection is required or not prior to disembarking
• A link to a mobile-friendly web page where they can view movement full status

Please note GMRs are not required from Larne to Cairnryan until 1 July 2021.

weemcd · 07-01-2021 2:20pm

I live in Belfast and the M&S around the corner to me was half full last night.

Almost zero fresh fruit or veg
Almost no chicken
Only about a quarter of the usual stock of fish

Most other supplies seemed to be OK, as far as dry goods, bread, frozen stuff. But it certainly did not look good. They were in the process of restocking shelves so maybe I got in at a bad time, but I'm not filled with confidence things would be much better today...

grayzer75 · 07-01-2021 2:35pm

weemcd wrote: »

I live in Belfast and the M&S around the corner to me was half full last night.

Almost zero fresh fruit or veg
Almost no chicken
Only about a quarter of the usual stock of fish

Most other supplies seemed to be OK, as far as dry goods, bread, frozen stuff. But it certainly did not look good. They were in the process of restocking shelves so maybe I got in at a bad time, but I'm not filled with confidence things would be much better today...

As regards fresh foods a lot of the supply chain is still out of sync from a transport point of view. It'll take weeks before it stabilises properly and everyone gets to grips with the documentation requirements.

Brussels Sprout · 07-01-2021 2:55pm

Anyone bought anything from amazon.co.uk this year? What sort of extra charges are there now?

Sam Russell · 07-01-2021 3:03pm

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Anyone bought anything from amazon.co.uk this year? What sort of extra charges are there now?

I want to buy from Amazon.

If I put in amazon.ie I get redirected to amazon.co.uk which is not what I want.

If I log into amazon.de I can find product, but I am not sure of delivery cost, and the same applies to amazon.fr as well.

Now I suspect that the goods will be sent from Sarl, wherever that is.

Is there anyway of contacting Amazon and finding out what the score is?

Some of their product comes from China, some from the UK and some from Europe, but it appears to be impossible to be certain where it will actually come from and therefor the nasty surprise of extra charges on delivery.

Until I am certain, I am certain I will not be ordering.

Dymo · 07-01-2021 3:07pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I want to buy from Amazon.

If I put in amazon.ie I get redirected to amazon.co.uk which is not what I want.

If I log into amazon.de I can find product, but I am not sure of delivery cost, and the same applies to amazon.fr as well.

Now I suspect that the goods will be sent from Sarl, wherever that is.

Is there anyway of contacting Amazon and finding out what the score is?

Some of their product comes from China, some from the UK and some from Europe, but it appears to be impossible to be certain where it will actually come from and therefor the nasty surprise of extra charges on delivery.

Until I am certain, I am certain I will not be ordering.

What's your problem with ordering from amazon.co.uk ? There is no Irish Amazon.

I've orderd 4 times this year from Amazon I paid the duty costs but didn't have to pay UK VAT so not a big difference

sink · 07-01-2021 3:07pm

On 27th December I bought from Amazon.de from a third party seller, which unbeknownst to me were shipping from the UK. I've just received notification that my parcel is undeliverable and I will receive a full refund pending the return of the goods to the shipper. Frankly I think they should return my money immediately since the goods never even left the UK. My guess is the never filled out a customs declaration and probably don't know how.

Sam Russell · 07-01-2021 3:14pm

Dymo wrote: »

What's your problem with ordering from amazon.co.uk ? There is no Irish Amazon.

I've orderd 4 times this year from Amazon I paid the duty costs but didn't have to pay UK VAT so not a big difference

I want to know the cost before I order, not when I get Mr. Postie at my door, demanding money.

I think it is proper that Amazon at least makes it known where the goods are coming from and that duty/VAT is liable (or not) on delivery.

[I know Amazon charges Irish VAT, but that is not my point].

L1011 · 07-01-2021 3:17pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Now I suspect that the goods will be sent from Sarl, wherever that is.

Next to LLC and near Ltd

Sam Russell · 07-01-2021 3:41pm

L1011 wrote: »

Next to LLC and near Ltd

Does not solve my issue, only more confusing.

For example, if I purchase from amazon.de, could they ship it from the UK with the peril of duty and VAT to be added on delivery?

What control have I got over this?

I will not order until I know this.

Hurrache · 07-01-2021 4:51pm

Saw this today which I suspect will catch many out. I've had a fair bit of equipment delivered from them myself over the last year, and I checked this morning and see that when you go as far as the basket the summary will tell you it includes VAT, but without an actual VAT amount in the breakdown, and no message that you will be liable for tax upon delivery.

https://twitter.com/Noelle_OC/status/1347158625278636034

Tropheus · 07-01-2021 8:28pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Saw this today which I suspect will catch many out. I've had a fair bit of equipment delivered from them myself over the last year, and I checked this morning and see that when you go as far as the basket the summary will tell you it includes VAT, but without an actual VAT amount in the breakdown, and no message that you will be liable for tax upon delivery.

Saw that one earlier on Twitter. I presume he didn't pay VAT in the UK or at least shouldn't have if he's being charged Irish VAT on entry. Should UK retailers not be charging us UK VAT or is it up to us to claim it back?

I think holding off ordering from the UK for the moment is good advice until this becomes clearer.

Nody · 07-01-2021 8:53pm

Tropheus wrote: »

Saw that one earlier on Twitter. I presume he didn't pay VAT in the UK or at least shouldn't have if he's being charged Irish VAT on entry. Should UK retailers not be charging us UK VAT or is it up to us to claim it back?

I think holding off ordering from the UK for the moment is good advice until this becomes clearer.

The vendor can charge VAT if they want; it's free profit for them however as they get it back at the end of the year (this was done in many airports for example). He may however have been caught in a double whammy, they charged VAT before 1st Jan correctly (still in EU rules) but due to delivery after he's then liable for VAT in Ireland. I'd guess as a company they might be able to reclaim it somehow but for an individual I'd guess you'd be up a piss creek without recourse or have a long fight over it.

Gerry T · 07-01-2021 8:54pm

combat14 wrote:

just seen - looks prices here will go up...

As said this will mean alternative suppliers in the irish market yo fill the gap, hence keeping money in IRL. I dont see a down side

Gunmonkey · 07-01-2021 8:56pm

Amazon have this page, some info there.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=GCXL3PUGPE5UU8PD&pf_rd_r=1QRF8TQQP9VFEB4RW6Q3&pf_rd_p=f79ef303-031d-4ccc-b9f1-a18b1c4db3c6&pd_rd_r=b741f125-f557-4f2a-a863-d44e7b3e34d1&pd_rd_w=f33TU&pd_rd_wg=BERyd&ref_=pd_gw_unk

This part sounds like you might avoid a double tax issue, but who knows how it will shake out.

For deliveries of goods sold or fulfilled by Amazon to the Republic of Ireland, Amazon.co.uk will calculate the applicable VAT and Import Fees during the checkout process, as follows:

Enzokk · 07-01-2021 9:16pm

Nody wrote: »

I think you got it backwards; it will be towards WTO terms instead as they "give their companies a chance to be more competitive with less regulation to hold them back".

If companies lose money the answer is to put more barriers up? Sure for the uneducated this may be the answer, but for how long will the political class be able to ignore the people who starts suffering due to their decisions?

Sam Russell · 07-01-2021 9:23pm

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Amazon have this page, some info there.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=GCXL3PUGPE5UU8PD&pf_rd_r=1QRF8TQQP9VFEB4RW6Q3&pf_rd_p=f79ef303-031d-4ccc-b9f1-a18b1c4db3c6&pd_rd_r=b741f125-f557-4f2a-a863-d44e7b3e34d1&pd_rd_w=f33TU&pd_rd_wg=BERyd&ref_=pd_gw_unk

This part sounds like you might avoid a double tax issue, but who knows how it will shake out.

I do not understand why Amazon cannot direct Irish customers to either the .de or .fr sites as a default. If all Irish sales were from one or other, delivery could be streamlined and the cost of delivery could become reasonable. When customs paperwork is taken into account, it should be better for them - after all, it should be seamless.

Well, it is one week into full Brexit, so early days.

paul71 · 07-01-2021 9:49pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I want to buy from Amazon.

If I put in amazon.ie I get redirected to amazon.co.uk which is not what I want.

If I log into amazon.de I can find product, but I am not sure of delivery cost, and the same applies to amazon.fr as well.

Now I suspect that the goods will be sent from Sarl, wherever that is.

Is there anyway of contacting Amazon and finding out what the score is?

Some of their product comes from China, some from the UK and some from Europe, but it appears to be impossible to be certain where it will actually come from and therefor the nasty surprise of extra charges on delivery.

Until I am certain, I am certain I will not be ordering.

Sarl = société à responsabilité limitée

Same as Limited Company in English = Ltd.

Sam Russell · 07-01-2021 10:07pm

paul71 wrote: »

Sarl = société à responsabilité limitée

Same as Limited Company in English = Ltd.

I thought the French was SA = société anonyme for PLC.

L1011 · 07-01-2021 10:10pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I thought the French was SA = société anonyme for PLC.

PLC and Ltd are not the same, though.

paul71 · 07-01-2021 10:23pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I thought the French was SA = société anonyme for PLC.

Public Limited Companies, Private Limited Companies, Single member Limited companies, Companies Limited by shares, Companies Limited by Guarantee. Ltd is a catchall as is Sarl.

[Deleted User] · 07-01-2021 10:41pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I thought the French was SA = société anonyme for PLC.

It’s a Luxembourg registered company.

Larbre34 · 07-01-2021 10:51pm

Infini wrote: »

Wonder if they'll have the cop on to redeploy these ships to Rosslare - France.

No point, the Port at Rosslare is now over its capacity, both in terms of berthing docks and marshaling yards for trucks.

One bad stormy day will eff up the schedule big style.

Hurrache · 07-01-2021 11:05pm

Tropheus wrote: »

Saw that one earlier on Twitter. I presume he didn't pay VAT in the UK or at least shouldn't have if he's being charged Irish VAT on entry. Should UK retailers not be charging us UK VAT or is it up to us to claim it back?

I think holding off ordering from the UK for the moment is good advice until this becomes clearer.

It's from Microsoft so not what you'd say is a UK retailer as they have an Irish online store.

She purchased the items last year, when you buy from Microsoft you've always been charged Irish VAT, they just ship from the UK.

I reckon it's an error from MS and/or UPS, but it's bizarre that from this point they seem not to be Irish VAT registered.

I went as far as checkout using my last order from them and it's working out more expensive this time around when you factor VAT and duty in, seems to be a cock up on their behalf.

Widdensushi · 07-01-2021 11:09pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

No point, the Port at Rosslare is now over its capacity, both in terms of berthing docks and marshaling yards for trucks.

One bad stormy day will eff up the schedule big style.

Go from cork?

Imreoir2 · 07-01-2021 11:13pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

No point, the Port at Rosslare is now over its capacity, both in terms of berthing docks and marshaling yards for trucks.

One bad stormy day will eff up the schedule big style.

It already sails from Rosslare though, right? They would just be shifting their existing capacity from the UK sailing to a continent sailing.

BorneTobyWilde · 07-01-2021 11:28pm

Weird that businesses can't get their head around the customs . They're in business.

WHEN is he VAT payable on an imported load ????/ At what point is that VAT collected, or is it just put into accounts with the company that is importing, and they do their vat return as normal calculating in that VAT ?

paul71 · 07-01-2021 11:36pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Weird that businesses can't get their head around the customs . They're in business.

WHEN is he VAT payable on an imported load ????/ At what point is that VAT collected, or is it just put into accounts with the company that is importing, and they do their vat return as normal calculating in that VAT ?

Vat is paid at point of entry to the customs in order to release a shipment, the VAT is then reclaimed on the Bi Monthly VAT return.

BorneTobyWilde · 07-01-2021 11:50pm

paul71 wrote: »

Vat is paid at point of entry to the customs in order to release a shipment, the VAT is then reclaimed on the Bi Monthly VAT return.

Then how is it paid, not up to the driver of a truck to pay it surely, he's only the driver. How do they decide value of the load ?

paul71 · 08-01-2021 12:01am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Then how is it paid, not up to the driver of a truck to pay it surely, he's only the driver. How do they decide value of the load ?

From invoice value with description of the goods and tariff codes, the VAT rate applicable is determined from the tariff codes and customs produce a SAD with the VAT value. Sometimes a customs agent if appointed by the importer will pay, other times the importer will pay.

I think larger importers may have sums on deposit with customs.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/customs-procedures/general-overview/single-administrative-document-sad_en

A SAD is a single administrative document.

Ireland & the Single Market post Brexit

Comments