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4 point goal?

  • 15-12-2020 1:48pm
    #1
    benji79
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭


    I’m not saying I would or not but a lot of people not liking the lack of goals in hurling especially. Only one on Sunday in croke park between both games

    Should the value be increased?

    Even as a trial some year in the league?

    I actually can’t decide would I like it. I’d probably be open to a trial. Goals are a pretty exciting part of our games


Comments

  • #2
    callaway92
    Registered Users Posts: 14,304 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    No. 3 is the optimum amount

    4 would see the game become a goal shootout similar to the 3 pointer in basketball where the three is always the percentage play bar a floater/dunk/layup


  • #3
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Absolutely not, 3 points is perfect. If I was to change anything to do with the scoring I'd award 2 points for a set piece place from the ground, like a sideline cut but I would expand it that any free can be taken from the ground and be worth 2 points, it would stop a lot of fouls around the 21 where people are pulled down to stop the goal, if the attacking team just had to cut the ball over the bar from in front of the goals it would make them think twice.


  • #4
    Starlord_01
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭Starlord_01


    Why fix something that isn't broken?


  • #5
    benji79
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭benji79


    Starlord_01 wrote: »
    Why fix something that isn't broken?

    Many argue it is broken


  • #6
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    benji79 wrote: »
    Many argue it is broken

    There is a lot more broken than the scoring system


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  • #7
    Nalz
    Registered Users Posts: 16,723 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    There is a lot more broken than the scoring system

    Howya Father


  • #8
    crossman47
    Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭crossman47


    A more valuable goal would only encourage more tactical fouling. It would be a no brainer to give away a free for one point to save four.


  • #9
    WesternZulu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    Starlord_01 wrote: »
    Why fix something that isn't broken?

    I think this is a flaw in thinking about hurling in that you're dismissed entirely if you criticise it. Whereas the rule makers in football have been a bit too trigger happy in implementing changes the opposite could be said for hurling.

    The sliothar needs to be heavier for one, it's far too easy to score. Secondly, there needs to be a black card. Those two issues would come ahead of a 4 point goal but that's not to say it doesn't deserve consideration either.


  • #10
    Starlord_01
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭Starlord_01


    WesternZulu wrote: »
    I think this is a flaw in thinking about hurling in that you're dismissed entirely if you criticise it. Whereas the rule makers in football have been a bit too trigger happy in implementing changes the opposite could be said for hurling.

    The sliothar needs to be heavier for one, it's far too easy to score. Secondly, there needs to be a black card. Those two issues would come ahead of a 4 point goal but that's not to say it doesn't deserve consideration either.

    Understandable but OP has mentioned the lack of goals:

    2020 QFs, SFs & F: 15 goals in 5 games: Average 3 per game
    2019: 18 in 5 games: Average 3.6 per game
    2018: 17 in 6 games (replay): Average 2.83 per game
    2017: 12 in 5 games: Average 2.4 per game
    2016: 15 in 6 games (replay): Average 2.5 per game


  • #11
    Aravo
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭Aravo


    crossman47 wrote: »
    A more valuable goal would only encourage more tactical fouling. It would be a no brainer to give away a free for one point to save four.

    If the free given away also resulted in a black card then less likely to give away the free. A good example would have been declan Hannon fouled waterford forward in first half. A goal looked a possibility. No card awarded. Waterford ended up with a pointed free. From a limerick point of view it worked out well. This scenario happened a few times in championship thus year.

    2 points for sideline
    Black card for cynical foul
    Then see if a 4 point goal is required after that.


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  • #12
    benji79
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭benji79


    In regards to cynical play etc I’d love something that wasn’t down to ref’s judgement. Could cause more confusion with some refs giving it, others not. No consistency

    I’d like some rule that was clear cut. I don’t know how to figure it out or implement something but a situation where everyone including players, management, spectators, officials knew what was going to happen


  • #13
    arctictree
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭arctictree


    Clareman wrote: »
    Absolutely not, 3 points is perfect. If I was to change anything to do with the scoring I'd award 2 points for a set piece place from the ground, like a sideline cut but I would expand it that any free can be taken from the ground and be worth 2 points, it would stop a lot of fouls around the 21 where people are pulled down to stop the goal, if the attacking team just had to cut the ball over the bar from in front of the goals it would make them think twice.

    I think a long time ago (30s, 40s), some players used to cut close in frees over the bar. I'm not sure if its still allowed, sure why not....


  • #14
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    arctictree wrote: »
    I think a long time ago (30s, 40s), some players used to cut close in frees over the bar. I'm not sure if its still allowed, sure why not....

    It is allowed, just not done because it's a lot easier to lift and strike


  • #15
    Deskjockey
    Registered Users Posts: 833 ✭✭✭Deskjockey


    crossman47 wrote: »
    A more valuable goal would only encourage more tactical fouling. It would be a no brainer to give away a free for one point to save four.

    Good point. It's the unintended consequences of these rule changes that would need to be teased out.


  • #16
    I see sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    Make the posts narrower?


  • #17
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    I see sheep wrote: »
    Make the posts narrower?

    or just the gap between the posts?

    Might be expensive to change


  • #18
    Davys Fits
    Registered Users Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Davys Fits


    Why change anything when you have glaring problems already. When you try to fix something complex you first fix what you know is wrong before making more changes. Throwing the ball, cynical play, spare hand fouls all need attention. The spare hand is causing almost all these problems.
    And there is nothing manly or tough about pulling and dragging players. It was very rare when we had hard hurling so I dont buy the idea that referees are making the game soft by blowing these kind of fouls.


  • #19
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,366 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    That was the third goalless All Ireland Final after 1999 and 2004, so lack of goals isn't an issue IMO.

    Black cards to stop incessant fouling up the pitch when a defending team regains possession would be a better rule change I think . Kilkenny have been doing it for a number of years, Limerick are now masters of it as well.


  • #20
    Nitrogan
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Nitrogan


    Introduce tackling?


  • #21
    I says
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭I says


    2 points for sideline cut. With technology now a video ref might help make easier decisions. Any foul the ref misses a call can be made in real time to ref on the pitch. Eg red card or that’s a yellow card. Gleeson getting the belt in the balls in the AI case in point.


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  • #22
    French Toast
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭French Toast


    I remember someone mentioned basketball-esque rule of no returning past the halfway line once in the opponents half to combat boring football kick abouts.

    Interesting thought.


  • #23
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,753 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    French Toast wrote: »
    I remember someone mentioned basketball-esque rule of no returning past the halfway line once in the opponents half to combat boring football kick abouts.

    Interesting thought.

    If you are three points up, with two minutes to play, you have earned the right to play keep ball...

    If your team are good at managing possession, more credit to them. It’s an ever more important facet of both football and hurling. Managing situations, game management, being savvy so you can manage the ball/sliotar

    It’s not as if the sport is becoming more negative..it’s the opposite...

    Look at the last few All Ireland football finals and the number of scores...



    2020-31
    2019-34
    2018-33
    2017-35
    2016-31
    2015-21
    2014-23
    2013-29
    2012-26
    2011-25
    2010-31

    Total : 319 scores


    1990-20
    1991-32
    1992-32
    1993-25
    1994-26
    1995-23
    1996-23
    1997-21
    1998-26
    1999-21
    2000-28

    Total : 277 scores

    A total of 42 more scores were scored in all Ireland finals in the last decade more than were scored in a previous decade of finals I’ve randomly picked. Not huge admittedly but still indicative of...

    Better players, better fitness, improved skill sets, better finishing.

    You are four points down with a minute of injury time and a scramble after a 45 enables your team to get a draw ? Not for me.


  • #24
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Agree with the above. Being able to dominate possession and restrict opportunities for opposition is a key part to any team sport.

    Gaelic football is a high octane physical game like NFL, basketball and rugby, and to be able to keep the ball, run down the clock is a brilliant and difficult team skill under huge physical pressure from the opposition. The flaw in gaelic football was that for a few years there was no incentive for negative teams to do other than park the bus. It is completely bankrupt tactic now except against other poor teams.

    And the alternative is not exclusive to Dublin. Mayo play that way as did Tipp and Cavan this year and as have the best club teams like corofin and Crokes of Kilarney in last 5/6 years.

    Any of the alternatives in gaelic football seem to revolve around the positive team having to lump the ball back to a team that is mostly content to sit back, or is unable to attack constructively through turnovers.


  • #25
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I says wrote: »
    2 points for sideline cut. With technology now a video ref might help make easier decisions. Any foul the ref misses a call can be made in real time to ref on the pitch. Eg red card or that’s a yellow card. Gleeson getting the belt in the balls in the AI case in point.

    Why should the ball going out over the sideline award a team a double bonus.
    It's not an award for foul play so should not be treated as special it's just a way to restart out of bounds play


  • #26
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,753 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Cork vs Kerry, next years Munster final.. 67 minutes gone...

    Cork 1-12

    Kerry 1- 19

    Kerry have dominated from virtually minute 1 to minute 67 and enjoy a huge 7 point lead.... yet they are tiring and nervous and aware that in two minutes and two kicks of a ball, they could loose ? Bollocks, 3 points, end of.

    The only thing a four point goal does is increase the chances of weaker teams pulling off an upset...


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