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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Antique Firearms

  • 29-11-2020 7:25pm
    #1
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭


    Just a few questions about antique firearms. Firstly, do I need an import license to import them. Secondly, is there a caveat in the legislation that prevents the Garda from just saying that every antique firearm needs a license, or do they have discretion to say what is and isn't allowed. I'm familiar with the 2 paragraphs on the Garda website so any help would be greatly appreciated.


Comments

  • #2
    juice1304
    Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭juice1304


    You are allowed anything that doesn't shoot a metallic cartridge. It has to be original not a reproduction. Yes you need an import licence and authorization to have it.


  • #3
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    The guideline changed a while back, it's anything that isn't a unitary cartridge. This means some metallic cartridges like the early Sharps, Westley Richards Monkey Tails, Smiths and so on are actually okay.
    That's the Dept of Justice guideline anyway, the legislation itself doesn't define antique afaik.
    Of course, you'll still see Irish auction houses and individuals openly selling stuff that's antique but doesn't meet the guidelines like pinfires and black powder rifles and nobody seems to care.
    I'm sure people have bought old guns in NI and not realised that not only do they need a licence for that big bore black powder rifle from the 1870s, they need a restricted licence.

    (This is in no way me saying go and break the law, just an observation)


  • #4
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    A funny story/word of warning. Those old muzzle loaders were often "put by" left loaded. A neighbor of ours years ago bought a hunk of rust as a bit if a fixer upper project for a wall hanger. He went at the action end with a blowtorch. BOOM!

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #5
    keith s
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭keith s


    Meanwhile, some are bringing all sorts in haha: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1210/1183616-mortar-launcher/


  • #6
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    keith s wrote: »
    Meanwhile, some are bringing all sorts in haha: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1210/1183616-mortar-launcher/
    "This was part of a routine customs profile check, but the officers suspicions were also raised when a mortar launcher was declared on importation documentation" :rolleyes:


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  • #7
    keith s
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭keith s


    expectationlost wrote: »
    "This was part of a routine customs profile check, but the officers suspicions were also raised when a mortar launcher was declared on importation documentation" :rolleyes:

    See, paperwork is imported or I mean important!


  • #8
    sasta le
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭sasta le


    Why did the declare it if it was something illegal?


  • #9
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    A mortar launcher? Sounds dangerous, I'd hate to have an entire mortar launched at me.


  • #10
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    sasta le wrote: »
    Why did the declare it if it was something illegal?

    Probably because they didn’t realise that under Irish legislation the item that’s considered an expensive ornament elsewhere is still a prohibited weapon.

    In the context of Northern Ireland, deactivated or not, a vintage Russian mortar tube, base plate and sights would still be of some value to some terrorist organizations.


  • #11
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Why would they bother importing something that they improvised years ago to great effect, and has been refined to a superior weapon by Afghanis,Iraqis and Syrians in the last 20 years in countless garage workshops from Armagh to Kandahar?
    The sights are really nothing more than an optical clinometer, of which you can get a phone app to do the job just as well, and has been seen to be used in Syrian vids of lads setting up their DIY mortars.
    The traverse and elevation mechanism would be more helpful if you were planning something where you have the ability to have an observer to call in your impacts... The tube is the least bit as it is a bit of pipe with a firing pin in it, and the baseplate is just a big lump of steel plate with an eye bolt to hold the tube.
    Plus,if this was deacted,it will have a hole in the tube half the size of the tube diameter down at the firing pin area. You can buy DEacted LAWs72 in Europe, knew one guy who used to keep all his drawings, blueprints plans and sketches rolled up in one in his office and used it as a transporter to clients,or old panzerfausts or bazookas that are made inert like this...minus any explosive or propellant as well of course.

    The biggies would be the bombs and their fuzes and how to produce those cheaply and in mass production that are accurate enough too. That would be more worrisome.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • #12
    keith s
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭keith s


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Why would they bother importing something that they improvised years ago to great effect, and has been refined to a superior weapon by Afghanis,Iraqis and Syrians in the last 20 years in countless garage workshops from Armagh to Kandahar?
    The sights are really nothing more than an optical clinometer, of which you can get a phone app to do the job just as well, and has been seen to be used in Syrian vids of lads setting up their DIY mortars.
    The traverse and elevation mechanism would be more helpful if you were planning something where you have the ability to have an observer to call in your impacts... The tube is the least bit as it is a bit of pipe with a firing pin in it, and the baseplate is just a big lump of steel plate with an eye bolt to hold the tube.
    Plus,if this was deacted,it will have a hole in the tube half the size of the tube diameter down at the firing pin area. You can buy DEacted LAWs72 in Europe, knew one guy who used to keep all his drawings, blueprints plans and sketches rolled up in one in his office and used it as a transporter to clients,or old panzerfausts or bazookas that are made inert like this...minus any explosive or propellant as well of course.

    The biggies would be the bombs and their fuzes and how to produce those cheaply and in mass production that are accurate enough too. That would be more worrisome.

    Hahaha Grizzly,
    There's a fine line between explaining how something works and providing detailed steps to DIY..
    I'll have a look for the schematics!


  • #13
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    keith s wrote: »
    Hahaha Grizzly,
    There's a fine line between explaining how something works and providing detailed steps to DIY..
    I'll have a look for the schematics!

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Go right ahead!!... it is common knowledge in the public domain and has been for decades...Google is your friend on how mortars work,and on how to improvise them, or build them to fire battery style.

    SHOCK !!!
    You can actually DOWNLOAD AND READ the manuals on how to operate, maintain, and fire them too, courtesy of the US army, and the Libary of Congress. And if you did want to build your own, the US Army 1969 improvised munitions manual TM 31/10 or the Anarchists cookbook has plenty of advice on them....As well as plenty on all sorts of fun stuff.

    Trouble is...Some of those plans and processes are faked, or inherently dangerous, or deliberately kinked in the mechanic's dept,to prevent or just outright kill idiots who would try making those.
    So that unless you are a full-blown chemist, a Special Forces NCO giving a lecture on improv weaponry,or a mechanic well up on firearms or US ordinance. You will at best kill yourself and some fellow guerrillas,or at worst mutilate yourself like the [in]famous Kurt Saxon did when he tried mixing one of those formulas.He lost 3 fingers on his right hand and 2 on his left,mixing 2 chemicals in a film canister size container!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #14
    keith s
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭keith s


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Go right ahead!!... it is common knowledge in the public domain and has been for decades...Google is your friend on how mortars work,and on how to improvise them, or build them to fire battery style.

    SHOCK !!!
    You can actually DOWNLOAD AND READ the manuals on how to operate, maintain,and fire them too,courtesy of the US army.

    Lol.

    Tinternet is amazing alright.
    The whole 3d printed firearms is an interesting space as well. (no I don't have a 3d printer :D )


  • #15
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    82 MM ? Pfft, the Ira were doing mortars in Calor gas bottle calibre. "Dear chief super could i get a restricted licence for a bottle of gas, the gaff is freezing".


  • #16
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Funny story, when the IRA were down in Columbia teaching FARC guerrillas how to make mortars it was in the papers when they got caught. My gf at the time was reading it in the paper. I was like yea complicated enough stuff making homemade mortars. And she said:

    If it’s complicated why are they trying to teach guerrillas?
    To me a couple of seconds to twig she was thinking of silverbacks.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #17
    keith s
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭keith s


    Feisar wrote: »
    Funny story, when the IRA were down in Columbia teaching FARC guerrillas how to make mortars it was in the papers when they got caught. My gf at the time was reading it in the paper. I was like yea complicated enough stuff making homemade mortars. And she said:

    If it’s complicated why are they trying to teach guerrillas?
    To me a couple of seconds to twig she was thinking of silverbacks.

    :O :D:D


  • #18
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    meathstevie wrote: »
    In the context of Northern Ireland, deactivated or not, a vintage Russian mortar tube, base plate and sights would still be of some value to some terrorist organizations.

    It would make sense if the laws in NI itself weren't so much more relaxed than here.


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