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LGFA Issues

  • 07-12-2020 11:10am
    #1
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭


    I am surprised that there has not been a thread about this.

    https://www.the42.ie/all-ireland-ladies-football-semi-final-venue-controversy-5290451-Dec2020/

    I really feel for both teams here and also their families who did not get to see the game.

    The president of the LGFA was on the radio this morning and defended the situation as best she could but a few issues I think need to be clarified.

    1. When Limerick qualified for the All Ireland semi final then it was becoming clear that there was a very strong chance that the pitch would not be available. However, it was only after they qualified that the issue arose.
    I am not sure if it was a poor communication from Limerick but the issue seems to have been very late arising.
    When that was clear could the LGFA have changed the venue or even the timing of this game?

    2. Pitch situation in Parnell Park was probably very unlucky and its hard to blame the LGFA on this one.

    3. I think bringing the game forward like that - especially on a cold day when a warm up was really important - was a no no. The president of the LGFA mentioned player welfare on the radio this morning - surely bringing it forward like this was contrary to player welfare?

    4. It seems the reason that the reason that the game needed to be brought forward was to accomodate possible extra time and possible penalties - we all know that the chances of it going that far was slim enough so I think the LGFA should have been able to persuade the GAA and Mayo / Tipp to facilitate this and in the unlikely event of extra time then move the bMayo Tipp game from 3:30pm to 4:00pm - not a big deal in my mind.

    5. Coverage. In a year when club games were televised all round the country it really was shameful that some sort of coverage was not possible - could RTE not have faciitated a live stream or was it just so late a notice to setup? Could someone in RTE not have made the decision to televise it and transfer to RTE News Now? They had their cameras setup and ready to go.

    6. This may mean closer integration and that may be best because, if the president of the GAA and the officials had been responsible for this also then the decisions may have been made to facilitate this.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    It was a mess. As anyone familiar with Parnell will know, it is usually off limits in Winter. Ground was heavy all week, and it has poor drainage.

    Not saying it was all down to LGFA - DCB once only let my club and another that a junior hurling final could not be held there 2/3 days before - but you would have imagined that all concerned would have been prepared for a switch much earlier given the weather last week.


  • #3
    kksaints
    Registered Users Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭kksaints


    jimd2 wrote: »
    I am surprised that there has not been a thread about this.

    https://www.the42.ie/all-ireland-ladies-football-semi-final-venue-controversy-5290451-Dec2020/

    I really feel for both teams here and also their families who did not get to see the game.

    The president of the LGFA was on the radio this morning and defended the situation as best she could but a few issues I think need to be clarified.

    1. When Limerick qualified for the All Ireland semi final then it was becoming clear that there was a very strong chance that the pitch would not be available. However, it was only after they qualified that the issue arose.
    I am not sure if it was a poor communication from Limerick but the issue seems to have been very late arising.
    When that was clear could the LGFA have changed the venue or even the timing of this game?

    2. Pitch situation in Parnell Park was probably very unlucky and its hard to blame the LGFA on this one.

    3. I think bringing the game forward like that - especially on a cold day when a warm up was really important - was a no no. The president of the LGFA mentioned player welfare on the radio this morning - surely bringing it forward like this was contrary to player welfare?

    4. It seems the reason that the reason that the game needed to be brought forward was to accomodate possible extra time and possible penalties - we all know that the chances of it going that far was slim enough so I think the LGFA should have been able to persuade the GAA and Mayo / Tipp to facilitate this and in the unlikely event of extra time then move the bMayo Tipp game from 3:30pm to 4:00pm - not a big deal in my mind.

    5. Coverage. In a year when club games were televised all round the country it really was shameful that some sort of coverage was not possible - could RTE not have faciitated a live stream or was it just so late a notice to setup? Could someone in RTE not have made the decision to televise it and transfer to RTE News Now? They had their cameras setup and ready to go.

    6. This may mean closer integration and that may be best because, if the president of the GAA and the officials had been responsible for this also then the decisions may have been made to facilitate this.

    4 and 5 are TV rights issues. For 4 as you say the admittedly unlikely scenario of the women's match going to extra time pushing back the men's semi final would have had a further knock on effect if the men's final would have gone to extra time and penalties particularly when the next programme is another live sport event with a fixed kickoff time. It's very unlikely that it would have happened but I doubt RTE would have wanted to take any chances for a match that they don't have rights for in the women's semi final. This leads onto point 5, TG4 has the rights to the LGFA championships, RTE couldn't broadcast the match even if they wanted to. They possibly could have let tg4 use their cameras but why should they tbh.


  • #4
    Frogeye
    Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Frogeye


    I'm not sure it was a communication issue on the part of limerick county board. Why would you organise a big game for venue that had a a 50:50 shot of not being available?

    Bringing them to dublin was a strange decision in the first place.

    Regards television coverage, not sure I'd say it was shamefull. Disappointing yes but I can only assume that the logistics didn't work out in the time frame allowed. Not sure RTE had their cameras "set up and ready to go" as you say. I imagine RTE were is Croker for hours setting up and running checks for a 3.30pm kick off. If they had to be ready for the ladies game they would have had to be in there way before the decision was made to change the venue.

    Agree they could have pushed the mens game back. This happens all the time in double headers and because the dubs don't get into the hill for kick off! Not sure was this asked of the GAA/Rte?

    There need to be just one organisation for all the games. There are always issues with Ladies football and camogie fixture clashing because they are different organizations . Its a mess.


  • #5
    RonaVirus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭RonaVirus


    jimd2 wrote: »
    I am surprised that there has not been a thread about this.

    Very few people care. It's a niche sport, purporting to something bigger and more important.

    The media try to push it, mostly by focusing the grievances and giving out about how few people watch, mixed with the general "women deserve xyz" trumpet.

    A badminton tournament having to be relocated at short notice due to a burst pipe holds about as much interest for the general public as yesterdays events.


  • #6
    theoneeyedman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Frogeye wrote: »
    I'm not sure it was a communication issue on the part of limerick county board. Why would you organise a big game for venue that had a a 50:50 shot of not being available?

    Bringing them to dublin was a strange decision in the first place.

    Regards television coverage, not sure I'd say it was shamefull. Disappointing yes but I can only assume that the logistics didn't work out in the time frame allowed. Not sure RTE had their cameras "set up and ready to go" as you say. I imagine RTE were is Croker for hours setting up and running checks for a 3.30pm kick off. If they had to be ready for the ladies game they would have had to be in there way before the decision was made to change the venue.

    Agree they could have pushed the mens game back. This happens all the time in double headers and because the dubs don't get into the hill for kick off! Not sure was this asked of the GAA/Rte?

    There need to be just one organisation for all the games. There are always issues with Ladies football and camogie fixture clashing because they are different organizations . Its a mess.

    The cameras etc were there and filming away. There were scores being shared from TG4 (I think it was) before halftime on twitter.

    Where there is a will there's a way, a complete shambles.


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  • #7
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    Frogeye wrote: »
    I'm not sure it was a communication issue on the part of limerick county board. Why would you organise a big game for venue that had a a 50:50 shot of not being available?

    Bringing them to dublin was a strange decision in the first place.

    Regards television coverage, not sure I'd say it was shamefull. Disappointing yes but I can only assume that the logistics didn't work out in the time frame allowed. Not sure RTE had their cameras "set up and ready to go" as you say. I imagine RTE were is Croker for hours setting up and running checks for a 3.30pm kick off. If they had to be ready for the ladies game they would have had to be in there way before the decision was made to change the venue.

    Agree they could have pushed the mens game back. This happens all the time in double headers and because the dubs don't get into the hill for kick off! Not sure was this asked of the GAA/Rte?

    There need to be just one organisation for all the games. There are always issues with Ladies football and camogie fixture clashing because they are different organizations . Its a mess.

    I agree - not trying to blame Limerick - just saying that when they did qualify for a semi (& they were slight favorites) then alternatives should have been looked for.


  • #8
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    RonaVirus wrote: »
    Very few people care. It's a niche sport, purporting to something bigger and more important.

    The media try to push it, mostly by focusing the grievances and giving out about how few people watch, mixed with the general "women deserve xyz" trumpet.

    A badminton tournament having to be relocated at short notice due to a burst pipe holds about as much interest for the general public as yesterdays events.

    Not sure if I would agree with that.

    Big participation increases in ladies GAA, attendance wise it is still lagging behind and they have to work hard to get attendances but it increased a lot last year and I think will become more mainstream in future.


  • #9
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    RonaVirus wrote: »
    Very few people care. It's a niche sport, purporting to something bigger and more important.

    The media try to push it, mostly by focusing the grievances and giving out about how few people watch, mixed with the general "women deserve xyz" trumpet.

    A badminton tournament having to be relocated at short notice due to a burst pipe holds about as much interest for the general public as yesterdays events.

    You cared enough to read and respond to the thread!

    Media with exception of TG4 pay it almost no attention, which is a pity as there is large participation at local level. Far bigger than women's rugby which does get a lot of main stream attention, as does women's soccer.

    As someone who follows it, and who is far from being in tune with extraneous special pleading! - I really don't see women's football doing the sort of whinging you seem to imply.

    Anyway, final should be good between the two modern giant (esses:) ) of the game over last decade and more.


  • #10
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,699 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Well the LGFA rep did say that both county boards gave their blessing for the move. They could have insisted on postponing the game if they couldn't make the throw in. They have to take some responsibility in this as well as the LGFA.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #11
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,699 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    You cared enough to read and respond to the thread!

    Media with exception of TG4 pay it almost no attention, which is a pity as there is large participation at local level. Far bigger than women's rugby which does get a lot of main stream attention, as does women's soccer.

    As someone who follows it, and who is far from being in tune with extraneous special pleading! - I really don't see women's football doing the sort of whinging you seem to imply.

    Anyway, final should be good between the two modern giant (esses:) ) of the game over last decade and more.

    TG4 are the only station showing local sport any sort of recognition. RTE have seemingly given up on nearly all sport with the exception of a few big GAA games and the Rugby.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • #12
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Augme


    JRant wrote: »
    Well the LGFA rep did say that both county boards gave their blessing for the move. They could have insisted on postponing the game if they couldn't make the throw in. They have to take some responsibility in this as well as the LGFA.

    The Galway manager said he agreed to the switch but was fully expecting that they would get sufficient warm up time. The original game had a 130 kick off time but the Galway manager said they were only told very late when they got to the ground and finished in the dressing room that they basically be starting at 1pm.


  • #13
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,993 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Frogeye wrote: »
    I'm not sure it was a communication issue on the part of limerick county board. Why would you organise a big game for venue that had a a 50:50 shot of not being available?

    Bringing them to dublin was a strange decision in the first place.

    Regards television coverage, not sure I'd say it was shamefull. Disappointing yes but I can only assume that the logistics didn't work out in the time frame allowed. Not sure RTE had their cameras "set up and ready to go" as you say. I imagine RTE were is Croker for hours setting up and running checks for a 3.30pm kick off. If they had to be ready for the ladies game they would have had to be in there way before the decision was made to change the venue.

    Agree they could have pushed the mens game back. This happens all the time in double headers and because the dubs don't get into the hill for kick off! Not sure was this asked of the GAA/Rte?

    There need to be just one organisation for all the games. There are always issues with Ladies football and camogie fixture clashing because they are different organizations . Its a mess.

    This has not happened in a a good few years, for a couple of reasons, one is that Dublin no longer pull the crowds they used to a secondly i think everyone got a bit pissed off and said let them be late.

    Actually, check that, this has never actually happened in the history of the GAA ever.
    There has never been a "kick-off" in a GAA match


  • #14
    carq
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭carq


    jimd2 wrote: »
    Not sure if I would agree with that.

    Big participation increases in ladies GAA, attendance wise it is still lagging behind and they have to work hard to get attendances but it increased a lot last year and I think will become more mainstream in future.



    Be interesting to see how many would actually attend if they had to pay.
    Packing croke park full of schoolkids gives a false picture of the sports real popularity.


  • #15
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,699 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Augme wrote: »
    The Galway manager said he agreed to the switch but was fully expecting that they would get sufficient warm up time. The original game had a 130 kick off time but the Galway manager said they were only told very late when they got to the ground and finished in the dressing room that they basically be starting at 1pm.

    That's on the galway manager then. The first question asked should have been "when is throw in" before agreeing to anything. It seems they spent a bit of time faffing around kinnegad at 10:40 when they could have very easily been in CP by midday at the latest.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #16
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,699 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    carq wrote: »
    Be interesting to see how many would actually attend if they had to pay.
    Packing croke park full of schoolkids gives a false picture of the sports real popularity.

    On the flip side, it gives schoolchildren some exposure to the game and might get more involved in clubs. We have to start somewhere.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #17
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    The kids who attend all play so it's become a day out for the clubs. FAI Cup finals are by the way largely made up of freebies and most clubs don't even take them!


  • #18
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,699 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    The kids who attend all play so it's become a day out for the clubs. FAI Cup finals are by the way largely made up of freebies and most clubs don't even take them!

    It also beats the price gouging that goes on for the men's final.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #19
    theoneeyedman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    jimd2 wrote: »
    Not sure if I would agree with that.

    Big participation increases in ladies GAA, attendance wise it is still lagging behind and they have to work hard to get attendances but it increased a lot last year and I think will become more mainstream in future.

    In my experience, the LGFA and county board officials (generally) are more interested in county teams and the big days out, eg their girls winning that all important under 14 all ireland c competition, than increasing grass root participation in any real sense.

    The main reason women's rugby and soccer get decent TV coverage is because RTÉ are obliged to cover it as part of thw international men's package, they won't get rights to one without the other. This doesn't happen with the LGFA, especially since the spilt from the GAA.

    I still can't fathom why that game was brought to Dublin yesterday anyway, there are many pitches between Cork and Galway, even in Limerick, UL have tremendous facilities given that no crowd was attending.


  • #20
    Frogeye
    Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Frogeye


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    This has not happened in a a good few years, for a couple of reasons, one is that Dublin no longer pull the crowds they used to a secondly i think everyone got a bit pissed off and said let them be late.

    Actually, check that, this has never actually happened in the history of the GAA ever.
    There has never been a "kick-off" in a GAA match

    Not sure about that!! this is form 2020.....

    "throw in" was delayed....

    https://www.the42.ie/dublin-kerry-croke-park-3-4982395-Jan2020/


  • #21
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    It's funny the amount of bad press the GAA are getting even though the issues are nothing of their making

    The amount of people who don't realize the associations are separate is frightening


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  • #22
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Frogeye wrote: »
    Not sure about that!! this is form 2020.....

    "throw in" was delayed....

    https://www.the42.ie/dublin-kerry-croke-park-3-4982395-Jan2020/

    If you read the piece, it says that main problem was in cusack.

    I was on the hill for that and like for most matches it was full before the game. Anyone who turns up late for big game won't get a good spot.


  • #23
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,796 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    It's funny the amount of bad press the GAA are getting even though the issues are nothing of their making

    The amount of people who don't realize the associations are separate is frightening

    To borrow a phrase from Brexit, they have a cakeist deal going on. The LGFA organise their own competitions, finance, venues, teams, sponsorship, TV deals etc. but any and all complaints are to be directed at the GAA.


  • #24
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    The lady from the LGFA has come in for a fair bit of flack about this and anyone looking at it rationally would conclude that they are to blame on this.


  • #25
    Utopia Parkway
    Registered Users Posts: 17,291 ✭✭✭✭Utopia Parkway


    jimd2 wrote: »
    The lady from the LGFA has come in for a fair bit of flack about this and anyone looking at it rationally would conclude that they are to blame on this.

    She seems to be blaming Galway.
    When it was suggested that the change of time was actually the big issue, with Galway given so little time to warm up, the LGFA chief replied: "Galway arrived to Croke Park at 12.30 on their buses, and they then proceeded to the dressing-room. They spent quite a bit of time in the dressing-room and then emerged out onto the pitch. They would have had the opportunity to get out onto the pitch earlier had they not spent so much time in the dressing-room.”

    When pressed on whether this meant it was Galway’s fault, Hickey responded: "I said that they could have been out on the pitch earlier. Obviously the time scheduling was tight, and obviously it was a difficulty for us on the day to get the game in there in the first place. There’s no winners or losers in this, unfortunately.


    Galway manager Tim Rabbitt said what happened was a "joke" and "totally unacceptable"
    "We didn't agree to a 1pm [throw-in]," he told RTÉ's Morning Ireland. "We agreed that we would play it, that we would get there as early as we could, once we were given assurances that we were given sufficient time. Whether the game threw in at 1pm or 1.10pm, we weren’t concerned about that once we were given assurances that we could do a proper warm-up and we were properly prepared.

    "That all changed when we got to Croke Park. We were allowed our 14 minutes in the dressing room, which is all you are allowed with the Covid situation at the moment.

    "But the minute we took the pitch, LGFA officials, referee, straight away in our ear. 'Six minutes, you’ve got six minutes to warm up."


  • #26
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    In fairness, 30 minutes to get togged and warm up for a big game, or any game, is a lot of pressure.

    On other hand, Galway travel arrangements seemed to have been a bit shoddy even if the game had gone ahead as scheduled in Parnell.

    You have to have sympathy for the players. none of it their fault.


  • #27
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,186 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    In fairness, 30 minutes to get togged and warm up for a big game, or any game, is a lot of pressure.

    On other hand, Galway travel arrangements seemed to have been a bit shoddy even if the game had gone ahead as scheduled in Parnell.

    You have to have sympathy for the players. none of it their fault.

    Both teams were told of the venue change at 10:50, when Galway were seemingly in Kinnegad. As a person whose done that journey hundreds of times, it doesn't take an hour to get from there to Croke Park on a quiet Sunday morning. So Galway should've been in CP by 12 latest.

    In any case they shouldn't have been leaving arrival so tight even if it hadn't been moved. For major games even at club level you'd be expected to leave to get you there 2 hrs before throw in just in case something happens. The last thing a player needs to be stressing out over is being on time.


  • #28
    Utopia Parkway
    Registered Users Posts: 17,291 ✭✭✭✭Utopia Parkway


    Galway ladies are well used to that journey. They were in the final last year after all. I presume they know what their timings are to leave Galway and arrive at the right time. I can only think there were some communication problems in getting the change of information to all the squad as they drove up.


  • #29
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,770 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Both teams were told of the venue change at 10:50, when Galway were seemingly in Kinnegad. As a person whose done that journey hundreds of times, it doesn't take an hour to get from there to Croke Park on a quiet Sunday morning. So Galway should've been in CP by 12 latest.

    In any case they shouldn't have been leaving arrival so tight even if it hadn't been moved. For major games even at club level you'd be expected to leave to get you there 2 hrs before throw in just in case something happens. The last thing a player needs to be stressing out over is being on time.

    Agreed. Even something as ordinary as a puncture would throw you astray on their time line.


  • #30
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Not sure what this person means about the timeline. Seems like they had plenty of it and spent time messing around once they got to croke park. In Kinnegad at 11 so they were in CP by 12. Seems like complaining cos they lost is all it's based on after terrible organisation.

    https://twitter.com/sinead_farrell7/status/1335956104409444353?s=19


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  • #31
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭dobman88


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    It's funny the amount of bad press the GAA are getting even though the issues are nothing of their making

    The amount of people who don't realize the associations are separate is frightening

    Wow. This actually cant be stressed enough. Its staggering the amount of people with an opinion on this who havent a breeze. GAA, bad. Equality, misogyny, men bad. The LGFA is a ladies organisation with a female at the head of it. Its staggering the amount of misdirected and uninformed nonsense being spouted about this issue.


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