Electrical Heating

Cerco · 28-11-2020 5:56pm

JackieChang wrote: »

Liddle's have oil filled rads at the moment. Electric radiators are all as efficient as each other. The only difference is how quickly it heats up the room and how the heat feels.

And how slowly it cools.....after power off. Though you won’t find that in the specs

Pasteur. · 02-12-2020 12:02am

How are users getting on that have ripped out storage heaters for the new convection heaters

It seems to me to save money you have to operate a hot and cold house(cold when out of the house)

I thought this wasn't recommended for mould etc.

02-12-2020 10:01am

Cerco wrote: »

And how slowly it cools.....after power off. Though you won’t find that in the specs

Yup.

If a radiator heats up quickly when switched on it will cool down quickly when switched off. Alternatively if it heats up slowly when switched on it will cool slowly when switched off.

When it comes to electric heaters there is a seemingly endless supply of misleading sales people that will try to convince people that their offering is “smart”, cost effective and they will also imply that their heaters are more efficient than their competitor’s.

If I was to install an electric heater I would buy a “dumb” oil filled rad and I would make it “smart” by controlling it from a Sonoff. That way I could control the heater from my smart phone, switch it on and off via Google Home, set schedules, set timers, control via room temperature, see the status and room temperature from anywhere. All this for under €100 and it would be no more or less efficient than a €600 “Smart” electrical heater.

Pasteur. · 02-12-2020 10:19am

"Energy Efficient Heating Controls" seems to be the marketing slogan on some heaters I fitted recently

I'm not fully convinced on the switch from storage heating that's going on

First off you're losing the stored heat charged at the night rate

Input and output can be well regulated with modern storage heaters

JackieChang · 02-12-2020 2:50pm

I have an oil filled 1.5kw wall mounted panel radiator (Creda Car100) that has "Eco Start" technology.

I am having trouble figuring out how exactly this is "Eco".

Basically EcoStart turns on the heating before you want it.

For example, I have it set to come on at 9am and turn off at 11am.

It turns itself on at 8am instead, so the room is toasty by 9am. So while I'm asleep the radiator is on. There have been some mornings I've woken up early and it was on at 7.30am.

Is there any way this can be "Eco" and saving me cash? I set it for 2 hours, but seems like it's actually operating for 3 hours.

I might just disable that feature, as I think it could be costing me more.

Pasteur. · 02-12-2020 3:32pm

JackieChang wrote: »

I have an oil filled 1.5kw wall mounted panel radiator (Creda Car100) that has "Eco Start" technology.

I am having trouble figuring out how exactly this is "Eco".

Basically EcoStart turns on the heating before you want it.

For example, I have it set to come on at 9am and turn off at 11am.

It turns itself on at 8am instead, so the room is toasty by 9am. So while I'm asleep the radiator is on. There have been some mornings I've woken up early and it was on at 7.30am.

Is there any way this can be "Eco" and saving me cash? I set it for 2 hours, but seems like it's actually operating for 3 hours.

I might just disable that feature, as I think it could be costing me more.

Sounds very similar to the Faro brand heaters

"Eco" is just a buzzword

ercork · 02-12-2020 4:00pm

JackieChang wrote: »

I have an oil filled 1.5kw wall mounted panel radiator (Creda Car100) that has "Eco Start" technology.

I am having trouble figuring out how exactly this is "Eco".

Basically EcoStart turns on the heating before you want it.

For example, I have it set to come on at 9am and turn off at 11am.

It turns itself on at 8am instead, so the room is toasty by 9am. So while I'm asleep the radiator is on. There have been some mornings I've woken up early and it was on at 7.30am.

Is there any way this can be "Eco" and saving me cash? I set it for 2 hours, but seems like it's actually operating for 3 hours.

I might just disable that feature, as I think it could be costing me more.

I guess it will be dependent on whatever temperature you have set. So if you have told it you want the room to be 20 degrees between 9am and 11am and the room is 14 degrees overnight, it will calculate that it will need to switch itself on at 7.30 to get the room up to temperature by 9.

If it were to only come on at 9 the room would still be cold for a good while so this may not be what you want?

JackieChang · 02-12-2020 5:11pm

ercork wrote: »

If it were to only come on at 9 the room would still be cold for a good while so this may not be what you want?

I wouldn't mind if it came on 15 mins before which would take the chill out of the air, but the place is roasting when I wake up. Who knows what time it switched on this morning. 6am? Makes me very groggy. I'm literally fecked for hours after I wake up. Feels like I'm hungover.

I am waiting for a reply from the manufacturer themselves to see if it does actually save energy "eco" style. But I think I'll just turn off this smart feature, and time it to come on at 8.45 instead of 9am.

ercork · 02-12-2020 5:29pm

JackieChang wrote: »

I wouldn't mind if it came on 15 mins before which would take the chill out of the air, but the place is roasting when I wake up. Who knows what time it switched on this morning. 6am? Makes me very groggy. I'm literally fecked for hours after I wake up. Feels like I'm hungover.

I am waiting for a reply from the manufacturer themselves to see if it does actually save energy "eco" style. But I think I'll just turn off this smart feature, and time it to come on at 8.45 instead of 9am.

If it's that warm then the temperature must be set to 22 degrees or something like that. Reduce it to 18 and that should feel better for a bedroom. Also it will take less time to get the room to that temperature so the heater won't start up so early.

coolperson05 · 20-01-2021 12:47pm

Hi all,
Apologies I know these questions are constantly asked but I was hoping for just some feedback on what people have done. I bought an apartment last year - 15 year old dimplex storage heaters (hall/sitting room) and convections (bedroom). The timers are definitely messed up as they charge from about 4pm to 8pm (varies on the temperature - the devi controller times them on and off, but just not at night). Been trying to get management company to check it out with little success and worried about the electric bills as they should be on night rates. Immersion charges at night fine...It's a work in progress.

Short of all that - is it worth upgrading just to the later dimplex quantum/q rads. I use one of the bedrooms as a home office for the foreseeable so the convector really doesn't cut it. Or would the outlay cost be wasted? Won't stay here forever so don't want the big outlay of heat pumps/underfloor heating. Anyone done a straight swap out for newer models and have results?

Newuser2 · 20-01-2021 8:51pm

coolperson05 wrote: »

Hi all,
Apologies I know these questions are constantly asked but I was hoping for just some feedback on what people have done. I bought an apartment last year - 15 year old dimplex storage heaters (hall/sitting room) and convections (bedroom). The timers are definitely messed up as they charge from about 4pm to 8pm (varies on the temperature - the devi controller times them on and off, but just not at night). Been trying to get management company to check it out with little success and worried about the electric bills as they should be on night rates. Immersion charges at night fine...It's a work in progress.

Short of all that - is it worth upgrading just to the later dimplex quantum/q rads. I use one of the bedrooms as a home office for the foreseeable so the convector really doesn't cut it. Or would the outlay cost be wasted? Won't stay here forever so don't want the big outlay of heat pumps/underfloor heating. Anyone done a straight swap out for newer models and have results?

I think most are swopping out the storage heaters for the
farho and the like, these would be on-demand heating , wall heaters

My thinking was that the Quantum would be better overall , better insulated storage heating

Do you get an electricity bill , is it not possible just to ring the supplier yourself?

coolperson05 · 21-01-2021 12:10am

We do but we’ve noticed the timer change only recently enough (we didn’t use the heaters much until Dec). We don’t have access to the meters so I assumed ESB would be no good as would have to go through management company to check if the timers were right?

The ‘easy’ option is just to swap for newer models. I’m not against storage heaters but wonder if ours are past their prime. And the night electricity is handy for showers, etc

punisher5112 · 21-01-2021 12:16am

If the set up was working correctly you would be saving a lot having the storage heaters heating between 11pm and 8am winter time.

You need to get that sorted straight away.

Clean out the heaters from dust and dirt.

Try run washing, dryer and dishwasher at these times too if possible.

What you should do to get the most out of them is turn the heat output down so it will hold the heat longer and use the boost when needed, obviously open up the vent/heating output as needed.

coolperson05 · 21-01-2021 12:21am

punisher5112 wrote: »

If the set up was working correctly you would be saving a lot having the storage heaters heating between 11pm and 8am winter time.

You need to get that sorted straight away.

Clean out the heaters from dust and dirt.

Try run washing, dryer and dishwasher at these times too if possible.

What you should do to get the most out of them is turn the heat output down so it will hold the heat longer and use the boost when needed, obviously open up the vent/heating output as needed.

Thanks for your reply. Yeah I’ve had storage heaters in a few places and as I said generally happy with them. I am wondering if the timing is an issue - especially cause the outdoor thermostat sets the charging time and if it’s doing it during the day, that’s just wasting away at night. Will follow up. And tips on the convector panel heaters? Cost effective operation? There’s timers but also a cut off when they reach a certain temperature

Newuser2 · 21-01-2021 12:24am

The storage heating is no good for office hours with the timing off whack

I'd say the Quantum would be good for office hours, delay the release of heat until work starts

The Farho seem to be popular but I can't see how they would be cheaper than utilizing the night rate for office hours

Is it worth trying the network if you have an MPRN number

Newuser2 · 21-01-2021 12:33am

I just refreshed my memory on the devireg there

The off peak signal from the meter cabinet is looped across internally to the contact for the night storage contactor

So if the timing is off it can't be the devireg

Unless there was something weird happened with it being wired wrong

Newuser2 · 21-01-2021 12:46am

The devireg outputs at the end of the off peak cycle

That prob means your off peak is from 12-8 pm instead of ~12-8 AM so you'd have to ring someone and get them out

coolperson05 · 21-01-2021 11:09am

Thanks for all that Newuser2. How did you refresh the memory on the Devireg? That AM/PM swap could be right. If there any hard reset I can do? Before I get onto ESB Networks. I have an MRPN so see if I can get any answers. Thanks for your help!

Newuser2 · 21-01-2021 2:43pm

coolperson05 wrote: »

Thanks for all that Newuser2. How did you refresh the memory on the Devireg?

I read the manual lol

I didn't mean refreshing anything it's the ESBN timing that's off not the devireg

countyhouse · 01-09-2021 6:33pm

I propose refurbishing a two story terrace holiday home built in late seventies- heating system.

Have been researching heating systems for the house. One option I would appreciate some advice on, is the use of modern electric storage heaters or electric heaters. What are the various options out there and which is best in our case. Will probably use small stove in the existing open fireplace as a backup. The house must be totally rewired for modern use. This option would provide and alternative to capital outlay for oil/ heat pump which is a non runner due to cost. The house will primarily be for our own use and family.

02-09-2021 7:54am

I would suggest that you avoid electric heating if you have any alternative due to the very high running cost.

Have a read of page one of this thread for more detail.

Jafin · 21-09-2021 3:40pm

Hi, I've just bought an apartment and I want to upgrade the heating. Please treat me like the dumbest person you have ever met because I have absolutely no idea how to go about any of this. At the moment the apartment has those really old, ugly, bulky storage heaters. I have looked up different heaters online and seen a few I like such as the ATC Sun Ray range, the Dimplex Q-Rad and the Dimplex Quantum Storage (reading through the first page it seems like storage is the way to go instead of just getting electric heaters). If I want to get them installed do I just ring an electrician, get him to come to the apartment for a look/quote/advice on which to get and then he'll head off and buy the heaters and remove the old ones and the install the new ones? Or do I have to get like...a specific heating specialist person?

Muahahaha · 21-09-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920113#Comment_117920113

Is your meter a day and night one? If so thats what storage heaters take advantage of, the cheaper night rate electricity. You can find out by looking at the EBB meter, if it is day and night you will see two different unit readings.

Also before you go spending a lot of money replacing the current storage heaters have you looked up how they are used and played around with the input & output controls? I know they are ugly but a lot of people dismiss them becasue they are not using them correctly and then they are not getting the heat from them at the times they need it.

Not saying you are using it incorrectly but you have only just moved in to a new place so Id just be sure that they are useless before you go spending a lot of money to replace them. They may work perfectly fine but the settings are wrong. If them being ugly is the problem you can get covers for them, usually its a wooden structure than then hides them from view and can also be used as a small shelf.

Jafin · 21-09-2021 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920431#Comment_117920431

It's a day and night meter yeah, so I am thinking now I might be better off with storage heaters in the long run. Seems like they're more expensive than electric heaters, but that up front cost would be offset over time since they cost less to run. The ugliness isn't the main thing, it's just that they're very bulky and the rooms aren't particularly big. Newer storage heaters tend to be a bit more compact from what I've seen. I haven't even moved in yet, so I haven't tested them out to be quite honest. I'm not in any particular rush, I could always just see how I go with the heaters over the winter and then do the upgrade next year if I feel the need. I'll pop into the apartment over the next few days and try to familiarise myself with how they work. Thanks for the info.

21-09-2021 6:37pm

The theory is that storage heaters heat up an internal heat sink (like bricks) using cheap rate electricity (at night) and then slowly release the heat during the day when electricity would be charged at a higher (peak) rate. The different rates apply to customers that have "dual tariff" meters.

The common complaint with storage heaters is that when they heat up (off peak times) the house overheats, some describe their homes as being like a sauna at night. This is at a time when it would be better to have the house cooler as people are generally in bed. Then during the peak times they release the heat all too quickly. So by the time people arrive home from work the storage heaters are cold. Then if people turn on heaters in the evening they get billed at the higher rate.

So I am not a fan of storage heaters, even the ones that are described as "smart" or "highly efficient" (all electric heaters are highly efficient).

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup · 24-02-2022 3:22am

why are all the oil-filled standalone heaters around €100 but when they're mounted on a wall they're the bones of €400-€500? is there something different with them, maybe more metal in the wall mounted ones?

the missus wants new electrical radiators and has her heart set on the 400-500 ones, doesn't want to buy a cheaper one online. I admit I can be a bit frugal (or tight) when buying new stuff but I just can't see the advantage that these €400 radiators have over the standalone Dimplex oil filled one I have in my office. I know the 400 ones have apps and fancy stuff that turns off the heat if you leave the room, but it doesn't warrant the price increase.

24-02-2022 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118682622#Comment_118682622

I agree, these units are massively overpriced. A device cost effective device such as a Sonoff TH16 (and possibly a contactor) can be added to any electric heater to enable it to be app controlled.

It is also important to understand that electric heating is the most expensive form of heating when compared to all other methods of heating. This is a fact regardless of what any heater brochure states (some are deliberately very misleading).

kirk. · 01-03-2022 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118682622#Comment_118682622

It's a good question alright and that does seem massively overpriced compared to the standup oil heaters which perform a similar task minus the controls

I fitted a few recently as customer was advised this way

In the right circumstances , adequate insulation etc. i'd lean toward the newer storage heaters which retain and emit the heat better

As 2011 said there's a lot of advertising lingo about energy efficiency

kirk. · 01-03-2022 9:53am

On the pricing they're probably being priced around the same as the storage heating as that's what the market will bear

They're often a replacement for storage heating or an alternative so that probably explains it

Doesn't seem to bear any relation to their real worth in monetary terms

Hoagy · 01-03-2022 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118682622#Comment_118682622

The difference is down to LOT 20 compliance, since 2018 wall mounted heaters must have energy saving controls.

Also means you can't get wall brackets for basic convector heaters anymore.

Dimplex have some info about it here

https://www.dimplex.co.uk/lot-20

Electrical Heating

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