Rugby Journo's

Tim Robbins · 30-11-2020 1:53pm #1

Had a strange morning and actually fell for the click bait and read the journalist's marks out of ten for various players.

Does anyone know if this guy ever even played Rugby? He refers to someone in the front row as if he's petulant teenager and there's zero technical analysis and apparently James Ryan is injured and Stockdale could be world class.

Really starting to think that not just this journalist but other journalists from the same newspaper are really struggling to keep up with the modern game. So then started wondering have any of them played it?

I see these articles regarding Ireland's lineout crisis and then I don't see any mention how England closed the gap cleverly when Ireland called a full lineout, how Itoje cleverly used his outside arm illegally or how England also missed a few lineouts?

Anyway before I finish this little rant, I would suggest newspapers should now go the same way as most professional teams. You have specialist journo's to cover the different aspects of the game. So, one for scrums, one for lineouts, one for backs, one for defense, one for the ref. Now if that's too much, fine then amalgamate. At least for big internationals and Heineken cup weekends the analysis should be more detailed and show a bit more understanding of the game.

Dog Botherer · 30-11-2020 1:58pm

a free bit of advice i would offer to anyone who consumes sports media: don’t read the ****ing player ratings. they’re intentionally written to court controversy and drive clicks. don’t waste your time.

mr_edge_to_you · 30-11-2020 2:16pm

Incidentally, I thought Neil Francis' column in the Sunday Indo yesterday was very good.

Zzippy · 30-11-2020 2:23pm

Neil Francis and Ewww McK are the main reason I refuse to read the Indo/Sindo. And yes, player ratings are pure clickbait, to be ignored at all costs.

The Lost Sheep · 30-11-2020 2:32pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Had a strange morning and actually fell for the click bait and read the journalist's marks out of ten for various players.

Does anyone know if this guy ever even played Rugby? He refers to someone in the front row as if he's petulant teenager and there's zero technical analysis and apparently James Ryan is injured and Stockdale could be world class.

Really starting to think that not just this journalist but other journalists from the same newspaper are really struggling to keep up with the modern game. So then started wondering have any of them played it?

I see these articles regarding Ireland's lineout crisis and then I don't see any mention how England closed the gap cleverly when Ireland called a full lineout, how Itoje cleverly used his outside arm illegally or how England also missed a few lineouts?

Anyway before I finish this little rant, I would suggest newspapers should now go the same way as most professional teams. You have specialist journo's to cover the different aspects of the game. So, one for scrums, one for lineouts, one for backs, one for defense, one for the ref. Now if that's too much, fine then amalgamate. At least for big internationals and Heineken cup weekends the analysis should be more detailed and show a bit more understanding of the game.

Do you ever come in to threads and discuss just the rugby. always starting threads like this...
No papers or any other site can afford or would want to have specialist journalists for areas like that. Can you name any sport that has journalists all under one stable covering different areas.
The general public doesnt want that much detail certainly not every article from one person on scrum/defence/lineouts.
What detail do you want?

Dog Botherer wrote: »

a free bit of advice i would offer to anyone who consumes sports media: don’t read the ****ing player ratings. they’re intentionally written to court controversy and drive clicks. don’t waste your time.

Yep. Journalists or at least most of them think same. Did a sports journalism course a few years back and tutors were asked and said the same.

Zzippy wrote: »

Neil Francis and Ewww McK are the main reason I refuse to read the Indo/Sindo. And yes, player ratings are pure clickbait, to be ignored at all costs.

Franno always good for a laugh. McKenna is horrid even though has a point sometimes on the sport.

Dog Botherer · 30-11-2020 2:46pm

don’t mind McKenna’s writing, as long as it’s not on the subject of rugby.

razorblunt · 30-11-2020 3:19pm

Who's ratings are these?

They're always the equivalent of those "best World XI" you'd doodle on the back of your copybook in school. Just nonsense.

FACECUTTR · 30-11-2020 3:51pm

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Incidentally, I thought Neil Francis' column in the Sunday Indo yesterday was very good.

Get out

thomond2006 · 30-11-2020 3:55pm

I really hate clickbait so I'll start a thread to bring attention to it?

That sounds a bit mean, but I don't know how else to put it...

If you want good journalism in 2020, you have to pay for it. Give money to the writers/bloggers/vloggers etc. whose views you value or find honest.

Do not, under any circumstance, draw attention to those you find dishonest. If someone is just out to look for rage bait, don't feed it. Don't share links. Don't send replies on social media. Starve it of the virtual oxygen it's looking for.

30-11-2020 4:48pm

Dog Botherer wrote: »

don’t mind McKenna’s writing, as long as it’s not on the subject of rugby.

I think he is a complete loon with a huge chip on his shoulder. Deeply unpleasant individual.

Dog Botherer · 30-11-2020 5:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think he is a complete loon with a huge chip on his shoulder. Deeply unpleasant individual.

won’t deny that he has a chip on his shoulder. but then again his articles on rugby, like those of other seemingly random journos, have no real journalistic merit. much like the player ratings it’s manufactured drama. everything is about clicks these days and controversy is an easy method to drive engagement up. it allows people to monetise indulging their ugliest sentiments and it’s a scourge in modern media.

now, on the other hand, McKenna has done great journalistic work, particularly in Brazil. unfortunately, that is not what he’s known for.

FrannoFan · 01-12-2020 11:17am

anyone who can publish a marks out of 10 minutes after the final whistle clearly hasn't put any thought into it. They drive clicks/comments/debate but are the worst form of "journalism"

made the same mistake of clicking one and had to read how Quinn Roux didn't shore up our lineout for which he was selected and similar drivel. my own fault.

Tim Robbins · 01-12-2020 4:17pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

I really hate clickbait so I'll start a thread to bring attention to it?

That sounds a bit mean, but I don't know how else to put it...

If you want good journalism in 2020, you have to pay for it. Give money to the writers/bloggers/vloggers etc. whose views you value or find honest.

Do not, under any circumstance, draw attention to those you find dishonest. If someone is just out to look for rage bait, don't feed it. Don't share links. Don't send replies on social media. Starve it of the virtual oxygen it's looking for.

We all like to read about Rugby but sometimes there is not much good to read. I'd love if the journo's who have more time than me to put into analysis could tell me things that either weren't obvious or weren't much better than what two lads watching the match in a bar who don't know that much about the sport would say about it.

That is the standard "the journalist" is at. A few lads at the bar, a few cliches, a bit of google and the odd controversial view that can't be backed up. One of them played a bit rugby back in the day, a few others are gaa heads and they just mumble stuff out over beers and that is basically what you are now reading in most of the newspapers.

Murray Kinsella is miles ahead of most of them - can they not step up?

Dog Botherer · 01-12-2020 4:21pm

until there’s a financial incentive for them to produce better content they’ll keep the easy money outrage machine churning. that’s just capitalism.

gourcuff · 01-12-2020 4:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think he is a complete loon with a huge chip on his shoulder. Deeply unpleasant individual.

the main thing he talks about is international rugby losing some of its credibility with imported players joining the team.. dont think its that far off, soccer has similar issues, alot of the irish soccer team were english born and bred.. kind of loses the point..

The Lost Sheep · 01-12-2020 4:28pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

We all like to read about Rugby but sometimes there is not much good to read. I'd love if the journo's who have more time than me to put into analysis could tell me things that either weren't obvious or weren't much better than what two lads watching the match in a bar who don't know that much about the sport would say about it.

That is the standard "the journalist" is at. A few lads at the bar, a few cliches, a bit of google and the odd controversial view that can't be backed up. One of them played a bit rugby back in the day, a few others are gaa heads and they just mumble stuff out over beers and that is basically what you are now reading in most of the newspapers.

Murray Kinsella is miles ahead of most of them - can they not step up?

I dont think the majority of fans want it though. Otherwise there might be more who do cover sport like Murray.
Murray writes for an online only publication.

Zeugnis · 01-12-2020 4:34pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Murray Kinsella is miles ahead of most of them - can they not step up?

Word.

But most of the punditry in other media (OTB etc) is garbage as well, repetitive, and focused on pressing Leinster/Munster buttons. Contemporary sports media may be more jarring for the motivated spectator because it is designed for audience maximisation (and is thus not too technical), while the nerds frequent forums/streams/podcasts where granular analysis is the tone.

thomond2006 · 01-12-2020 4:39pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

We all like to read about Rugby but sometimes there is not much good to read. I'd love if the journo's who have more time than me to put into analysis could tell me things that either weren't obvious or weren't much better than what two lads watching the match in a bar who don't know that much about the sport would say about it.

That is the standard "the journalist" is at. A few lads at the bar, a few cliches, a bit of google and the odd controversial view that can't be backed up. One of them played a bit rugby back in the day, a few others are gaa heads and they just mumble stuff out over beers and that is basically what you are now reading in most of the newspapers.

Murray Kinsella is miles ahead of most of them - can they not step up?

Rugby is not a billion dollar industry like rugby, soccer or baseball where someone can make good/great money producing content for diehards.

For the most part, people want to be entertained rather than informed. Getting people to react can sell. If clickbait stuff and "hot take" media was ignored by the public, it would go out of existence.

I recommend this TedX talk by Eric Bischoff, whose job was to write storylines to get a reaction from an audience.

https://youtu.be/n2RCT6Li4UQ

Former Former Former · 01-12-2020 4:42pm

I mean, it's not clickbait though, is it.

You click on a link that says "Ireland player ratings", you got player ratings. By definition, they're totally subjective. Not sure what the issue is tbh.

Tim Robbins · 01-12-2020 4:53pm

Zeugnis wrote: »

Word.

But most of the punditry in other media (OTB etc) is garbage as well, repetitive, and focused on pressing Leinster/Munster buttons. Contemporary sports media may be more jarring for the motivated spectator because it is designed for audience maximisation (and is thus not too technical), while the nerds frequent forums/streams/podcasts where granular analysis is the tone.

Well I am glad I am not the only person who thinks that. Yeah it's total garbage when you have lads who don't know that much about the game telling you about it. Could any of these lads coach or ref a J4 match?

Liam Tolan could but he gets ridiculously technical it's like he can't differentiate from something big and something small and his writing can come across as verbose and incoherent.

phog · 01-12-2020 5:25pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Rugby is not a billion dollar industry like rugby

I think this needs an edit

01-12-2020 8:00pm

phog wrote: »

I think this needs an edit

Shut up Buer

The Lost Sheep · 01-12-2020 8:19pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Well I am glad I am not the only person who thinks that. Yeah it's total garbage when you have lads who don't know that much about the game telling you about it. Could any of these lads coach or ref a J4 match?

Liam Tolan could but he gets ridiculously technical it's like he can't differentiate from something big and something small and his writing can come across as verbose and incoherent.

There's plenty who do know a lot about the game who couldnt coach or ref at j4 or any other level.

Losty Dublin · 02-12-2020 2:41pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There's plenty who do know a lot about the game who couldnt coach or ref at j4 or any other level.

I think it was Derek Bevan but one of the old Welsh ref's spoke at an ARLB meeting once and said that he could gladly whistle and call 101 internationals at a hat drop but he wouldn't have had a clue in a million years on how to take on a junior game.

Tim Robbins · 08-12-2020 9:18pm

A good word for "the journalist": the ultracrepidarian

Faugheen · 08-12-2020 9:33pm

Murray Kinsella isn’t a journalist. He’s an analyst, and probably the best in the business.

aloooof · 08-12-2020 9:38pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Murray Kinsella isn’t a journalist. He’s an analyst, and probably the best in the business.

I don't yhink he means Muray Kinsella:

Tim Robbins wrote: »

...and there's zero technical analysis...

Former Former Former · 08-12-2020 10:06pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

A good word for "the journalist": the ultracrepidarian

What's really going on here?

Tim Robbins · 09-12-2020 1:00pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

What's really going on here?

"the journalist": the ultracrepidarian

I am not referring to Murray Kinsella with that expression.

sydthebeat · 09-12-2020 1:09pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

"the journalist": the ultracrepidarian

.

in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

"journalists" write for their audiences

The Lost Sheep · 09-12-2020 1:18pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I think it was Derek Bevan but one of the old Welsh ref's spoke at an ARLB meeting once and said that he could gladly whistle and call 101 internationals at a hat drop but he wouldn't have had a clue in a million years on how to take on a junior game.

And?
Referring to Tims point could any pundits ref a J4 game. Most couldnt but then again most fans and many players wouldnt either.

Faugheen wrote: »

Murray Kinsella isn’t a journalist. He’s an analyst, and probably the best in the business.

He is a journalist and from a post on another side from someone in the know he has looked to get into analyst positions with pro clubs in past and not got a look in.

Rugby Journo's

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