Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

16-11-2020 03:31PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Isn't there a happy medium? Someone who likes one or the other but isn't a fan of the other without having to be tagged as self loathing?

Absolutely.

Thelonious Monk · 16-11-2020 03:35PM

I like watching rugby sometimes but I don't really like listening to BOD and the other ex rugby players who seem to dominate the media when talking about it, I can't think of any rugby pundit I like, they just seem to bang on about the same tours and old matches over and over, especially on Newstalk. So I usually avoid all that and tune in at kick off, well as soon as Ireland's call ends as that makes my ears bleed. Does that make me a terrible person?

Tell me how · 16-11-2020 03:57PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I like watching rugby sometimes but I don't really like listening to BOD and the other ex rugby players who seem to dominate the media when talking about it, I can't think of any rugby pundit I like, they just seem to bang on about the same tours and old matches over and over, especially on Newstalk. So I usually avoid all that and tune in at kick off, well as soon as Ireland's call ends as that makes my ears bleed. Does that make me a terrible person?

No. I fall in to the same category in relation to BOD and the OTB outside broadcasts on rugby, but I think it's how we communicate or share such a view. Saying it in passing is fine, it's relevant information in some conversations and topics but if we go out of our way to complain about something specifically, then we can't really complain if people get defensive.

Your original comment on the sound of Tommy Walsh's voice was probably such a comment. You don't have to like him, or the sport, but, when starting a conversation or a discussion in such a way, I think it's understandable that people would react.

16-11-2020 05:01PM

Tell me how wrote: »

No. I fall in to the same category in relation to BOD and the OTB outside broadcasts on rugby, but I think it's how we communicate or share such a view. Saying it in passing is fine, it's relevant information in some conversations and topics but if we go out of our way to complain about something specifically, then we can't really complain if people get defensive.

Your original comment on the sound of Tommy Walsh's voice was probably such a comment. You don't have to like him, or the sport, but, when starting a conversation or a discussion in such a way, I think it's understandable that people would react.

What he said.

I think your comments were intended to antagonise but not sure you thought through how exposed you would leave yourself.

Anyway, nothing to get excited about. We all have different likes and interests.

Spent many a night in Dalymount as a neutral, just enjoying my fix of live football.

CatFromHue · 16-11-2020 05:01PM

I like BOD when he's doing his weekly review. The weekly review slot I think is fairly good in fairness too. Toland, Wood, and BOD work well together and then there's Andy Dunne as well.

The roadshows have run their course for me at this stage. They've become a bit tired with a lot of the same people on them.

Thelonious Monk · 16-11-2020 05:40PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I like BOD when he's doing his weekly review. The weekly review slot I think is fairly good in fairness too. Toland, Wood, and BOD work well together and then there's Andy Dunne as well.

The roadshows have run their course for me at this stage. They've become a bit tired with a lot of the same people on them.

And the same laddish stories which I just find boring at this stage.
I do like that Australian guy they have on, I haven't heard him in a while, he was on the panel for the WC in 2019 on TV3, even just for his accent alone, it's hilarious.

RugbyLover123 · 16-11-2020 05:41PM

Very few rugby players that retire and go straight into punditry or media become an instant hit. They are still way to close to many involved to be in any way critical. A prime example was Rob Kearney on Virgin Media 2 weeks ago for the France game. He was petrified of saying anything negative and as a result effected his analysis.

Same goes for BOD, who is still clearly good mates with Sexton, and will very rarely say a bad word.

Another poster mentioned they only seem to talk about the same thing. I would tend to agree but it can be difficult not to when there is only 5 professional teams on the island to discuss. It definitely doesn’t help that they have the same person in Alan Quinlan talking about them twice a week. One voice on a smallish subject matter twice a week is overkill imo. The lack of coverage of the other nations and Southern Hemisphere could be improved. Often the Matt Williams and ROG pieces are the best as that’s when the subject can branch out from the repetitive discussion of Munster’s style of play or the lack of dogs in the Irish team.

Tell me how · 16-11-2020 05:44PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I like BOD when he's doing his weekly review. The weekly review slot I think is fairly good in fairness too. Toland, Wood, and BOD work well together and then there's Andy Dunne as well.

The roadshows have run their course for me at this stage. They've become a bit tired with a lot of the same people on them.

I really liked and respect Brian for his rugby talent, I've always just found his analysis to be too inclined to find a positive spin on something and to go with that. I'm somewhat indifferent to Toland and Wood and find Alan Quinlan entertaining but not specifically insightful either.
Much rather Ronan O'Gara's analysis since he retired.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

And the same laddish stories which I just find boring at this stage.
I do like that Australian guy they have on, I haven't heard him in a while, he was on the panel for the WC in 2019 on TV3, even just for his accent alone, it's hilarious.

Matt Williams, I enjoy him also.

17-11-2020 07:10AM

Anyone any thoughts on David Meyler as a pundit? I've listened to him plenty of times now and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but have come to the conclusion that he's all talk and no substance.

I can't recall any genuine bit of insight he has offered of late that has made me think or challenged my perceptions. He sounds the part at times and thinks highly of himself but to be honest on the discussion last night on the Ireland situation, Joe Molloy ran rings around him and called him out on a few things he said.

On the other hand, when I'm listening to Damien Delaney I nearly always learn something new and come away from the conversation with something to think about. Damien really knows and thinks about the game, and is brilliant at calling on his own experiences to support a point, and rarely just spots cliches for the sake of filling air time.

Thelonious Monk · 17-11-2020 07:45AM

I dont mind meyler but the chat between him and the host last night about ireland went on forever and bored me to tears. Didn't have a solid opinion really. Wales said after the match Ireland always give you a hard game, and as Joe said, they would say that even if we're bloody awful.
Maybe he's not long enough out of the squad to be a good pundit on the team.

Did you smash it · 17-11-2020 08:41AM

Did ye hear Stephen Ward yesterday morning? Meyler didn’t offer much but he at least seemed to care. Stephen ward just continuously said “obviously” and “well that’s the manager’s decision”

Thelonious Monk · 17-11-2020 09:55AM

Why do footballers love saying obviously so much? Robbie Keane just couldn't help himself with that word.

Did you smash it · 17-11-2020 10:21AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why do footballers love saying obviously so much? Robbie Keane just couldn't help himself with that word.

I asked Robbie this when I met him at the donnycarney horse fair. His argument was that it’s got three syllables so obviously he thinks it’s a word that impresses people when they hear it.

Before you ask the above didn’t happen.

Pauliedragon · 17-11-2020 10:34AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I dont mind meyler but the chat between him and the host last night about ireland went on forever and bored me to tears. Didn't have a solid opinion really. Wales said after the match Ireland always give you a hard game, and as Joe said, they would say that even if we're bloody awful.
Maybe he's not long enough out of the squad to be a good pundit on the team.

I don't mind him either but he is a bit on the fence. I always think the issue with pundits like that are they are not long retired so they are buddies with half the players they are commenting on so are slow to criticise or be objective. It's like the Man U lads on sky, Ole is never wrong. If I had my way no pundit would comment on a team/player they've played with but obviously that'll never happen.

Did you smash it · 17-11-2020 10:54AM

Gary Breen was the closest to calling this from the off. The media, and a lot of fans who take their opinion from the media because they are weak minded, hyped up Kenny as the man to change Irish football’s mentality and bring us into modern football. Now we are discovering the realities of modern football. That our players aren’t at the level to create through passing while whitstanding the pressing game modern teams play.

Breen said that people seemed to think Kenny was going to come in with a magic wand and have our player do things they don’t do for their clubs or for Ireland. That the young players were going to be immediately at ease playing for Ireland when it’s becoming clear the young players for now are some of our weakest players in the team and will need 2 years and 20 caps before they start to blossom.

Kenny is probably an ok, bog standard manager, managing ok, bog standard players for a country with an ok, bog standard history as a football nation.

Thelonious Monk · 17-11-2020 11:28AM

Did you smash it wrote: »

Kenny is probably an ok, bog standard manager, managing ok, bog standard players for a country with an ok, bog standard history as a football nation.

And that's just where we're at right now. Heading towards minnow status! None of these youngsters may amount to anything, they usually don't. I still can't bear to watch Big Sam or Neil Warnock come in and watch us hoofing the ball around for the rest of my life though, I don't mind SK being there for a few years.

Higgins5473 · 17-11-2020 11:39AM

Did you smash it wrote: »

Gary Breen was the closest to calling this from the off. The media, and a lot of fans who take their opinion from the media because they are weak minded, hyped up Kenny as the man to change Irish football’s mentality and bring us into modern football. Now we are discovering the realities of modern football. That our players aren’t at the level to create through passing while whitstanding the pressing game modern teams play.

Breen said that people seemed to think Kenny was going to come in with a magic wand and have our player do things they don’t do for their clubs or for Ireland. That the young players were going to be immediately at ease playing for Ireland when it’s becoming clear the young players for now are some of our weakest players in the team and will need 2 years and 20 caps before they start to blossom.

Kenny is probably an ok, bog standard manager, managing ok, bog standard players for a country with an ok, bog standard history as a football nation.

Didn't hear this, do you know if it is on a podcast? I take it, it was from a while ago.

Did you smash it · 17-11-2020 12:10PM

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Didn't hear this, do you know if it is on a podcast? I take it, it was from a while ago.

From a while ago. He didn’t say the thing about the young players, just the magic wand thing.

Brock Turnpike · 17-11-2020 03:47PM

Did you smash it wrote: »

Gary Breen was the closest to calling this from the off. The media, and a lot of fans who take their opinion from the media because they are weak minded, hyped up Kenny as the man to change Irish football’s mentality and bring us into modern football. Now we are discovering the realities of modern football. That our players aren’t at the level to create through passing while whitstanding the pressing game modern teams play.

Breen said that people seemed to think Kenny was going to come in with a magic wand and have our player do things they don’t do for their clubs or for Ireland. That the young players were going to be immediately at ease playing for Ireland when it’s becoming clear the young players for now are some of our weakest players in the team and will need 2 years and 20 caps before they start to blossom.

Kenny is probably an ok, bog standard manager, managing ok, bog standard players for a country with an ok, bog standard history as a football nation.

Mick McCarthy loyalist Gary Green? We'll colour me surprised!!

Feenix · 18-11-2020 12:06AM

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Didn't hear this, do you know if it is on a podcast? I take it, it was from a while ago.

It wont be on a podcast as it didnt happen.

Did you smash it · 18-11-2020 12:30AM

Feenix wrote: »

It wont be on a podcast as it didnt happen.

"I think you've got this dreamy notion Ger that as soon as Stephen Kenny comes in we're going to be expansive, playing through the thirds, peppering the goal.

"I hope that is true, but he doesn't have a CV to warrant thinking that with this group of players."

https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/stephen-kenny-gary-breen-cv-926590

Feenix · 18-11-2020 07:31AM

Did you smash it wrote: »

"I think you've got this dreamy notion Ger that as soon as Stephen Kenny comes in we're going to be expansive, playing through the thirds, peppering the goal.

"I hope that is true, but he doesn't have a CV to warrant thinking that with this group of players."

https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/stephen-kenny-gary-breen-cv-926590

I heard it at the time. He said nothing about young players being the weakest in years etc.

Did you smash it · 18-11-2020 09:02AM

Feenix wrote: »

I heard it at the time. He said nothing about young players being the weakest in years etc.

No one said the young players were the weakest in years.

bike2wkr · 18-11-2020 06:19PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Mick McCarthy loyalist Gary Green? We'll colour me surprised!!

Totally agree. Breen is completely on McCarthy side and negative about Kenny. Fact is Kenny is on alot less money than McCarthy. He's giving the job a good go. Bringing through young players. Would give him the world Cup campaign to see how he goes. Fai are skint anyways.

Did you smash it · 18-11-2020 07:22PM

The problem isn’t with Kenny, Breen, Mick McCarthy or Charlie Haughey.

The problem is with those that allow themselves to be completely carried away because we have a new football manager and they pin their hopes on a flesh and blood human being to work wonders with bog standard players.

Good luck to Stephen Kenny. It’s only football. Ireland aren’t very good and the chances of him being able to change that were always slim despite what some folk in the media lead people to believe.

Tell me how · 18-11-2020 07:26PM

Personaly I've always been sceptical of the influence a national manager has on a team given the limited time to interact with them.

Not saying there should be no manager or just anyone would do but unless they're getting to try completely unrealistic tactics or picking players in absurd positions then how much influence do they really have?

Irish football should (I'm not the first to say this) focus on sustainable grass root structures to get people playing, get decent coaching, get those with potential on to a nationally managed coaching plan while still playing locally and in 2030, you're all of a sudden looking at a very promising U18 team with many having attracted interest from UK clubs and then the benefits come to the national team.

Easy said, very hard to do obviously.

18-11-2020 08:51PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Irish football should (I'm not the first to say this) focus on sustainable grass root structures to get people playing, get decent coaching, get those with potential on to a nationally managed coaching plan while still playing locally and in 2030, you're all of a sudden looking at a very promising U18 team with many having attracted interest from UK clubs and then the benefits come to the national team.

Easy said, very hard to do obviously.

Most of this is actually already in place, with the national player pathway, regionalised centres, restructuring of underage national leagues, coaching pathways etc. Slag off the FAI all we want, but they actually have a lot of good people working in Abbottstown and over the last few years they have got their house in order in this regard, and the fruits are being seen in some of our underage teams now.

The issue with the international manager, as I see it, is that the last few appointments, pre Kenny, have all been made in spite of all this work that is being done. The international team existed in isolation and they were high profile vanity appointments by Delaney, with Trap, Keane-O'Neill and Mick given the remit of qualifying for major tournaments and nothing else. They played a totally different style of football and there was no sense of a connection with the U21 or other underage teams.

This is why Kenny's appointment is important and why we need to stick with him and back what he is doing. He is moving us away from an era that delivered short term gains but for which there was no vision or plan for football overall in this county. Now we have a plan, and Kenny has been tasked with delivering it. In that sense, he has an opportunity to do so much more than anyone that has come before him in the recent past. That may simply be putting the caveman football of the last 30 years in the past but somebody has to do it and I have huge admiration for the bravery and determination with which he is doing it. It's a bigger picture than the quality of the current players and the results; somebody has to grasp the nettle and do what he is doing sooner rather than later. Time will tell if he is the right man for the job.

Higgins5473 · 18-11-2020 09:20PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Most of this is actually already in place, with the national player pathway, regionalised centres, restructuring of underage national leagues, coaching pathways etc. Slag off the FAI all we want, but they actually have a lot of good people working in Abbottstown and over the last few years they have got their house in order in this regard, and the fruits are being seen in some of our underage teams now.

The issue with the international manager, as I see it, is that the last few appointments, pre Kenny, have all been made in spite of all this work that is being done. The international team existed in isolation and they were high profile vanity appointments by Delaney, with Trap, Keane-O'Neill and Mick given the remit of qualifying for major tournaments and nothing else. They played a totally different style of football and there was no sense of a connection with the U21 or other underage teams.

This is why Kenny's appointment is important and why we need to stick with him and back what he is doing. He is moving us away from an era that delivered short term gains but for which there was no vision or plan for football overall in this county. Now we have a plan, and Kenny has been tasked with delivering it. In that sense, he has an opportunity to do so much more than anyone that has come before him in the recent past. That may simply be putting the caveman football of the last 30 years in the past but somebody has to do it and I have huge admiration for the bravery and determination with which he is doing it. It's a bigger picture than the quality of the current players and the results; somebody has to grasp the nettle and do what he is doing sooner rather than later. Time will tell if he is the right man for the job.

That’s a beautiful soliloquy, most of which suggest you haven’t the slightest clue about football.

You are delusional If you think Ireland have been playing “caveman football” for 30 years, whatever the f*ck that is, is it some attempt to coin a phrase? hoofball maybe?

30 years we are playing a useless brand of football, “caveman”...utter tripe.

gormdubhgorm · 18-11-2020 09:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Most of this is actually already in place, with the national player pathway, regionalised centres, restructuring of underage national leagues, coaching pathways etc. Slag off the FAI all we want, but they actually have a lot of good people working in Abbottstown and over the last few years they have got their house in order in this regard, and the fruits are being seen in some of our underage teams now.

The issue with the international manager, as I see it, is that the last few appointments, pre Kenny, have all been made in spite of all this work that is being done. The international team existed in isolation and they were high profile vanity appointments by Delaney, with Trap, Keane-O'Neill and Mick given the remit of qualifying for major tournaments and nothing else. They played a totally different style of football and there was no sense of a connection with the U21 or other underage teams.

This is why Kenny's appointment is important and why we need to stick with him and back what he is doing. He is moving us away from an era that delivered short term gains but for which there was no vision or plan for football overall in this county. Now we have a plan, and Kenny has been tasked with delivering it. In that sense, he has an opportunity to do so much more than anyone that has come before him in the recent past. That may simply be putting the caveman football of the last 30 years in the past but somebody has to do it and I have huge admiration for the bravery and determination with which he is doing it. It's a bigger picture than the quality of the current players and the results; somebody has to grasp the nettle and do what he is doing sooner rather than later. Time will tell if he is the right man for the job.

Higgins5473 wrote: »

That’s a beautiful soliloquy, most of which suggest you haven’t the slightest clue about football.

You are delusional If you think Ireland have been playing “caveman football” for 30 years, whatever the f*ck that is, is it some attempt to coin a phrase? hoofball maybe?

30 years we are playing a useless brand of football, “caveman”...utter tripe.

Yeah I was going to like it until I read 'caveman football'.

Plus makes me laugh how some people think short passing is the answer.
Wrong! Penetrative forward passing is the answer (long or short) causing danger to teams.
Not tippy tappy sideways and backwards for the sake of it all the time = no threat. Like Georgia!

One of the best players in the world was involved in a Wales goal against Ireland which was not tippy tappy.

Direct ball in - Bale wins header flicked on and Brooks header goal. Simple and effective. There is not only one way of playing. As long it creates problems for opponents it is effective. No matter what the style.

19-11-2020 07:06AM

Higgins5473 wrote: »

That’s a beautiful soliloquy, most of which suggest you haven’t the slightest clue about football.

You are delusional If you think Ireland have been playing “caveman football” for 30 years, whatever the f*ck that is, is it some attempt to coin a phrase? hoofball maybe?

30 years we are playing a useless brand of football, “caveman”...utter tripe.

LOL.

When you're done being angry and mashing your fingers off the key pad and you want to debate or discuss anything I've said then let me know.

Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

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