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Proposals for football championship restructure

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  • #2
    recyclebin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,498 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    Who came up with that muck? I agree with 8 teams per province but it should be based on geography, not some convoluted system.


  • #3
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    recyclebin wrote: »
    Who came up with that muck? I agree with 8 teams per province but it should be based on geography, not some convoluted system.

    Yeah. Ulster would have to lose one. Cavan makes the most sense.

    I would do it like this if the provinces have to have 8 teams each.

    Ulster: Antrim, Armagh, Derry, Donegal, Down, Fermanagh, Monaghan, and Tyrone.

    Connacht: Clare, Galway, Leitrim, London, Longford, Mayo, Roscommon, and Sligo.

    Munster: Carlow, Cork, Kerry, Laois, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford, and Wexford.

    Leinster: Cavan, Dublin, Kildare, Louth, Meath, Offaly, Westmeath and Wicklow.

    New York can join the Tier 2 championship.


  • #4
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    ^^^

    I'd agree with those groupings in general, except I'd have Westmeath in Connacht rather than moving Clare there. Munster doesn't need to "lose" a county anyway (even though it would be brought back up to eight with the addition of other ones), but Leinster does.

    I'd also consider just calling the new competitions North, South, East and West, instead of sticking with the names of the provinces. But I suppose that would just lead to cries that they're doing away with the Ulster Championship/Connacht Championship/etc. after all.....


  • #5
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,699 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    my head hurts reading those proposals

    Could we see the provincial championships maybe become named competitions instead of 'Ulster Championship, Munster Championships etc' Ulster Championship- The Cormac Mcanallen Cup, Munster Championship- The Paidi O Se Cup etc

    Bit farcical seeing say Leitrim playing in a Munster championship


  • #6
    henke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭henke


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    my head hurts reading those proposals

    Could we see the provincial championships maybe become named competitions instead of 'Ulster Championship, Munster Championships etc' Ulster Championship- The Cormac Mcanallen Cup, Munster Championship- The Paidi O Se Cup etc

    Bit farcical seeing say Leitrim playing in a Munster championship

    Yeah that is my issue with it too. Some counties may not want to play in a provincial championship when the county is part of a different province. Granted Galway play in the Leinster hurling Championship but Galway isn't in Leinster it's still in Connacht.

    I can get it with New York and London as there aren't situated in any Irish province.

    I don't know it's a hard one to work out. Regionaled would make sense but it would be a mindset change for Donegal to want to win the North Cup or Mayo to win the West Cup. Giving them names as you suggested might give it a better sell and it's not as tightly coupled to the provinces or regions so you could move teams around.


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  • #7
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    henke wrote: »
    Yeah that is my issue with it too. Some counties may not want to play in a provincial championship when the county is part of a different province. Granted Galway play in the Leinster hurling Championship but Galway isn't in Leinster it's still in Connacht.

    I can get it with New York and London as there aren't situated in any Irish province.

    I don't know it's a hard one to work out. Regionaled would make sense but it would be a mindset change for Donegal to want to win the North Cup or Mayo to win the West Cup. Giving them names as you suggested might give it a better sell and it's not as tightly coupled to the provinces or regions so you could move teams around.

    Galway only play in Leinster because no other county in Connacht is strong in hurling. Same for Antrim. They are onto something with the League format and I don't think this any county will care about this Tier 2 if it is treated as a minor reward for a team which finishes 4th in their group.


  • #8
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,699 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Some laugh for someone like Louth if they won the Munster title, parades of people on the streets of Dundalk/Drogheda etc celebrating winning a Munster title


  • #9
    willabur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭willabur


    I'd like an interpretation of how NFL do it. 32 teams. 8 divisions of 4 based on geographic proximity. 2 leagues of 16 teams
    You play everyone in your own division - 3 games
    You play everyone in one neighbouring division within your league - you change the division (3 possibilities) you are matched with each year - 4 games
    You play everyone in a division from the other league - again this rotates around (8 possibilities) 4 more games

    Thats 11 games in a standard season with local rivalry building up with frequent games and the novelty of playing different teams from different parts of the country every year

    Then play offs from there


  • #10
    Rossvet
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Rossvet


    When I hear suggestions of "putting" Countues into other "Provinces" and still calling them Connacht or Munster I check the calendar to see if its April the 1st.

    The Provinces are what they are and if the Provincial Championships remain they should only be for teams in their own Provinces.
    Antrim, Longford or Westmeath are NOT in Connacht.
    London the one exception who have been part of Connacht for nearly 50 years.

    What connection if any between the Provincials and All Irelands is a matter for debate and decision by the GAA.

    Personally I'd favour the 4 Provincial Champions and 12 highest place League teams play for the All Ireland.
    The rest plus NY play for the Tailteann Cup


  • #11
    henke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭henke


    Rossvet wrote: »
    Personally I'd favour the 4 Provincial Champions and 12 highest place League teams play for the All Ireland.
    The rest plus NY play for the Tailteann Cup

    Would that not even devalue the provincials even more so? If Donegal/Tyrone have aspirations to win an AI why would they go all out win 3 or 4 matches of an Ulster Championship as they would be already be guaranteed a last 16 place in the AI series based on their league position. Dublin and Kerry would probably still win their provinces though so would have teams who finish in the lower half of Div 2 getting in the round of 16. I don't know if an extra round there would do much I could see a lot of hammerings. Suppose it has already happened at last 8 stages also.


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  • #12
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    The idea of putting preliminary losers in to other "provinces" was floated a few years ago.

    It was stupid then and remains stupid.

    Lets take Carlow for example.

    Lose Leinster preliminary to Louth
    Then get shipped to Connacht or Munster to lose a quarter final there more then likely
    And then get shipped to the Tommy Murphy Cup Version 2.0 to lose there

    What value is that to Carlow ?

    Feck all to if you ask me

    Would it not be better for Carlow to start a championship at the own level and if they are good enough they get promoted out of it and if they are poor they get relegated from it.
    Instead f this non stop tweaking and dropping teams into second chance competitions that they have little or no interest in competing in when there are crops to be harvested.


  • #13
    henke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭henke


    Yeah makes no sense. Carlow, geographically is in Leinster and am sure would love to win a Leinster Championship but there is nil chance of it happening. After being knocked out of it, I can't see why then they would want to and play in a Province they aren't geographically even in with the same nil chance of winning it.


  • #14
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    Connecting the League to Championship was a good idea but having the Tier 2 champions promoted to Division 2 instead of the second placed team is stupid.

    Just have two divisions of 16 split into 2 groups of 8. Same format as the one we had in 2000s with semi-finals and finals in Croke Park. All of the Div 1 teams (except for the four relegated teams) qualify for the Championship. The 4 teams promoted from Div 2 also qualify. Use the double-elimination format for the Championship.

    Or keep the 4 divisions of 8 and just have teams in Div 1, top 6 in Div 2, and promoted teams from Div 3 qualify for the Championship.

    I'm not convinced about a Tier 2 championship. It would be fine if it were a separate competition and had a clear pathway to Tier 1. Both of the proposed formats don't allow for that.


  • #15
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    I honestly don't understand why there's such opposition to a Tier 2 competition in the first place, if you look at things this way:

    Every county in Ireland runs its club competitions on a tiered basis - senior, intermediate, junior, etc. - and nobody would expect any different.

    If any county did suddenly declare it was just going to run just one competition for all clubs, no matter what level they were at, there'd be uproar. Junior and intermediate sides who wouldn't have a hope against the top senior sides would be furious, and would rather stay in a lower tier championship they might have a chance of winning, than just become whipping boys for the top sides in senior.

    Similar in inter-county hurling. The different tiers are there for good reason. If suddenly there was to be just one competition, for the Liam McCarthy Cup, there'd be uproar at the ludicrous situation where you could have the likes of Longford drawn against Kilkenny, or Leitrim against Galway.

    But go to inter-county football, and the complete opposite applies. Everybody expects to be allowed play at the same level, no matter how far off the pace of the top sides they are, and no matter how little hope they have of ever winning anything.

    Granted, there's not the same level of disparity in inter-county football as there is in hurling. But that's easily solved by having just two tiers in football, rather than the five that apply in hurling.


  • #16
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    Uncle Pierre wrote: »
    I honestly don't understand why there's such opposition to a Tier 2 competition in the first place, if you look at things this way:

    Every county in Ireland runs its club competitions on a tiered basis - senior, intermediate, junior, etc. - and nobody would expect any different.

    If any county did suddenly declare it was just going to run just one competition for all clubs, no matter what level they were at, there'd be uproar. Junior and intermediate sides who wouldn't have a hope against the top senior sides would be furious, and would rather stay in a lower tier championship they might have a chance of winning, than just become whipping boys for the top sides in senior.

    Similar in inter-county hurling. The different tiers are there for good reason. If suddenly there was to be just one competition, for the Liam McCarthy Cup, there'd be uproar at the ludicrous situation where you could have the likes of Longford drawn against Kilkenny, or Leitrim against Galway.

    But go to inter-county football, and the complete opposite applies. Everybody expects to be allowed play at the same level, no matter how far off the pace of the top sides they are, and no matter how little hope they have of ever winning anything.

    Granted, there's not the same level of disparity in inter-county football as there is in hurling. But that's easily solved by having just two tiers in football, rather than the five that apply in hurling.

    Nothing wrong with a second tier but none of the proposed formats are good. Clubs separate their championships and have promotion/relegation between them. Clubs don't lose in Senior and then get one more game at Junior level.


  • #17
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Utter nonsense, im totally against the provincial cships being a pathway to the AI Series but id still rather the current system than this mish mash job. Some counties could be playing in a different prov cshsip every year :rolleyes:

    The second proposal i just dont get at all:confused: Do the prov cshsips allow a path to the AI o r what?? :confused:


  • #18
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Hawkeye9212 wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1104/1175994-gaa-plans-to-retain-provinces-in-new-football-format/

    The GAA are looking at two proposals for championship restructure. The article lays out both in detail. I think I would prefer the provincial format myself. The league proposal is too messy.

    That is such rubbish.


  • #19
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    So not only do they make a hames of the championship, they also plan on destroying the league, which is clearly the superior competition.

    I don't even know where to begin with this crap and all to keep a "provincial championship". The one thing we want rid of we are keeping a stupid version of it.


  • #20
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,699 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    With the All Ireland finals even earlier in this proposal, no doubt they will send some of the best young players to the states/australia to promote the game on J1s etc. Some teams will be finished intercounty by mid May


  • #21
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    So not only do they make a hames of the championship, they also plan on destroying the league, which is clearly the superior competition.

    I don't even know where to begin with this crap and all to keep a "provincial championship". The one thing we want rid of we are keeping a stupid version of it.
    The provincial championships are not what many want rid of. And they shouldnt be got rid of.
    PTH2009 wrote: »
    With the All Ireland finals even earlier in this proposal, no doubt they will send some of the best young players to the states/australia to promote the game on J1s etc. Some teams will be finished intercounty by mid May
    They wont send anyone. People choose of own accord to go on J1s....


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  • #22
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    The provincial championships are not what many want rid of. And they shouldnt be got rid of.

    Eh, okay. If you insist.


  • #23
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    With the All Ireland finals even earlier in this proposal, no doubt they will send some of the best young players to the states/australia to promote the game on J1s etc. Some teams will be finished intercounty by mid May

    Have the AIF on Paddy's day sure. I mean, is there any thought process of what the end goal that they want is?

    Everything just seems to be change for changes sake.

    And we haven't gotten into what backdoors will be discussed. :)


  • #24
    Hawkeye9212
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Hawkeye9212


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    The provincial championships are not what many want rid of. And they shouldnt be got rid of.

    They wont send anyone. People choose of own accord to go on J1s....

    Keep them but they shouldn't decide who takes part in the AIC.


  • #25
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Hawkeye9212 wrote: »
    Keep them but they shouldn't decide who takes part in the AIC.
    They can. I can see why they shouldnt but if not part of AIC they cant be put off to the side and played at start/end of year. Play them on other weekends in between all ireland series/competition.
    But i would include them in the AIC. It has been part of the games forever and the link should still be maintained even if its just barely kept.


  • #26
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    They can. I can see why they shouldnt but if not part of AIC they cant be put off to the side and played at start/end of year. Play them on other weekends in between all ireland series/competition.
    But i would include them in the AIC. It has been part of the games forever and the link should still be maintained even if its just barely kept.

    Seriously? Play a meaningless competition alongside the AI cship? No serious team would give it a second thought


  • #27
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Seriously? Play a meaningless competition alongside the AI cship? No serious team would give it a second thought
    Why do so many people think it would be meaningless. It would be only chance for many counties to win something. you are still playing for the cups/competitions with their hundred plus years of history etc etc.
    There could be additional rewards put in place for winners.


  • #28
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Why do so many people think it would be meaningless. It would be only chance for many counties to win something. you are still playing for the cups/competitions with their hundred plus years of history etc etc.
    There could be additional rewards put in place for winners.

    If a team is going well in the cship they are not going to risk players in some secondary competition which is what the provs will be, Might be attractive for the lesser teams but any win would be devalued by the fact that the bigger teams not taking it seriously. We even see it in the league, once relegation has been avoided for most teams in Div 1 thats thats the main goal, not winning it


  • #29
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    If a team is going well in the cship they are not going to risk players in some secondary competition which is what the provs will be, Might be attractive for the lesser teams but any win would be devalued by the fact that the bigger teams not taking it seriously. We even see it in the league, once relegation has been avoided for most teams in Div 1 thats thats the main goal, not winning it
    They may they may not especially if you have rarely or only occasionally won a provincial title.


  • #30
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    They may they may not especially if you have rarely or only occasionally won a provincial title.

    We'll agree to differ then.


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  • #31
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    They can. I can see why they shouldnt but if not part of AIC they cant be put off to the side and played at start/end of year. Play them on other weekends in between all ireland series/competition.
    But i would include them in the AIC. It has been part of the games forever and the link should still be maintained even if its just barely kept.

    SO you want to add in extra games now? I thought it was all about player welfare and club games that we are changing the competitions?

    Keep the Provincials as an early in the year competition. Get them far and away from the AI.


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