New Worldwide Handicap System

Seve OB · 02-11-2020 10:13AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

We've had a mixed bag of those. Some included, some omitted. By rights, a NR in a strokeplay competition shouldn't be recorded as NR, but as a DQ: Failing to hole out in strokeplay. (Rule 3.3c).

It's definitely a work in progress at the moment. Missing scores seem to be coming in, but others still missing and (confusingly) ones that were there are now missing...

DQ or NR, doesn’t make a difference. They are going to continue, so they need to be included.

Also noticed that when you click on a score, unlike golfnet, you now see your actual round details. All existing ones are *** but I would assume that is because the info was lifted from golfnet which didn’t break down the round. I guess we will be able to see our round breakdown in the future here.

Incidentally, I’m on the iPad this morning, Safari again. I’m just seeing as far as the AG column now. Seems like the site is not responsive or something

ChippingSodbury · 02-11-2020 10:16AM

4.8 down to 4.0 without hitting a shot

BigChap1759 · 02-11-2020 10:23AM

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

4.8 down to 4.0 without hitting a shot

Is that not a

?

bigeasy · 02-11-2020 10:23AM

kennethrhcp wrote: »

hey lads, I moved clubs in Nov 2019 but only my 10 qualifying scores from 2020 are showing on Golf Ireland (all results were linked on GolfNet). So it means my handicap is only calculated off 3 best scores instead of 8.

I don't want to be annoying the wrong person with this as I'm sure everyone is crazy busy with it. would it be my club handicap sec I get onto?

I’m the same moved clubs in June , old club scores haven’t transferred yet . Only 9 scores on WHS. hopefully 2019 scores will transfer over . I’m going too leave a week until I annoy someone

kennethrhcp · 02-11-2020 10:29AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Have you played more than 10 since you changed club?

no, just the 10 qualifying since the lockdown

kennethrhcp · 02-11-2020 10:30AM

bigeasy wrote: »

I’m the same moved clubs in June , old club scores haven’t transferred yet . Only 9 scores on WHS. hopefully 2019 scores will transfer over . I’m going too leave a week until I annoy someone

ya no rush in chasing it up really

fearruanua · 02-11-2020 10:41AM

kennethrhcp wrote: »

ya no rush in chasing it up really

yeah we got an email for the club last night asking us not to contact the handicap secretary as they would be carrying out a handicap review themselves over the coming weeks to find out any anomalies.

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 10:45AM

Seve OB wrote: »

DQ or NR, doesn’t make a difference. They are going to continue, so they need to be included.

Only in the sense that you're getting a high proportion of NRs (usually a trigger for review) when they should be a DQ.

fearruanua · 02-11-2020 10:45AM

sorry if this question has been asked before but........
will winter golf (placing everywhere and 15 hole competitions) count towards your handicap under the new system? When and if we get back in december they will be the only competitions we have until early march.

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 10:46AM

kennethrhcp wrote: »

no, just the 10 qualifying since the lockdown

Afaik, you should ask for the records to be combined. It's a stupid 'feature' of the GUI system that you get a new number when you change clubs and your handicap record from the old club doesn't follow you as a result. Imo this should be automatic, but it isn't.

fred funk }{ · 02-11-2020 10:47AM

fearruanua wrote: »

sorry if this question has been asked before but........
will winter golf (placing everywhere and 15 hole competitions) count towards your handicap under the new system? When and if we get back in december they will be the only competitions we have until early march.

No.

fred funk }{ · 02-11-2020 10:52AM

HDID now showing new handicap, albeit not exactly the same as GolfIreland.

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 10:53AM

Announcement from Handicap Master:

We will be sending out instructions for the new HandicapMaster software very shortly.

We are currently awaiting confirmation that the WHS handicapping server is fully up and running.

We are advised that Golf Union data conversion overnight work is still ongoing.

Software update instructions will be emailed when we have confirmation that the WHS service is fully operational.

This applies to clubs in England, Wales and Ireland.

Salvadoor · 02-11-2020 10:54AM

So is course rating redundant then?

the playing handicap for singles will be: HI * (Slope/113)*95%?

Hoboo · 02-11-2020 10:56AM

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

I have a DQ in my last twenty and it is not included. Its not a big deal.

I would expect that going forward (when we start entering scores next year) DQs will be included for consistency. Otherwise i could enter an NR and my poor score would not be included in my HI calculation. Or do I miss something?

This explains it.

https://www.whs.com/articles/2020/net_double_bogey.html

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 10:56AM

Salvadoor wrote: »

So is course rating meaningless then?

the playing handicap for singles will be: HI * (Slope/113)*95%?

No. It's used in calculating your score differential which is used for your handicap index. SD = (AGS-CR-PCC) * (113/SR).

PabloAndRoy · 02-11-2020 10:57AM

Salvadoor wrote: »

So is course rating redundant then?

the playing handicap for singles will be: HI * (Slope/113)*95%?

Course Rating is for calculating the Handicap Differential and thus the HI.

PabloAndRoy · 02-11-2020 11:02AM

Hoboo wrote: »

This explains it.

https://www.whs.com/articles/2020/net_double_bogey.html

That's not quite the same as Disqualified (DQ) though.

Seve OB · 02-11-2020 11:07AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Only in the sense that you're getting a high proportion of NRs (usually a trigger for review) when they should be a DQ.

Eh no I wouldn’t actually, I always try to finish out no matter what.
It’s a strokes comp, there are lots of them. They form part of your most recent 20 rounds. So they might not always form be one of your best 8 scores (though in my example above it does & I have had cuts in the past from NR scores) but they will also cause other scores to drop out.
In strokes it is regular that a high proportion of the field will at some stage blow up and not feel it worthwhile going back to the tee because they lost a ball they might usually find, or they couldn’t be bothered hitting a third ball off the tee etc, sure I’ve regularly seen lads not finish out on later holes because there is no point in tapping in for a 7 or whatever. This is not going to change.

What happened in the past was you’d stick a 0 in on the hole. I would fully intend on doing that in the future and not just throw in a net double because that’s what the handicap tells us to do. Would I stick a 6 down instead of an 8 on the par 4 where I’ve no shot, no. Why? Because I didn’t score it. I fully expect the new system to make the necessary adjustments similar to the old clause 19 adjustment.

PabloAndRoy · 02-11-2020 11:14AM

Seve OB wrote: »

Eh no I wouldn’t actually, I always try to finish out no matter what.
It’s a strokes comp, there are lots of them. They form part of your most recent 20 rounds. So they might not always form be one of your best 8 scores (though in my example above it does & I have had cuts in the past from NR scores) but they will also cause other scores to drop out.
In strokes it is regular that a high proportion of the field will at some stage blow up and not feel it worthwhile going back to the tee because they lost a ball they might usually find, or they couldn’t be bothered hitting a third ball off the tee etc, sure I’ve regularly seen lads not finish out on later holes because there is no point in tapping in for a 7 or whatever. This is not going to change.

What happened in the past was you’d stick a 0 in on the hole. I would fully intend on doing that in the future and not just throw in a net double because that’s what the handicap tells us to do. Would I stick a 6 down instead of an 8 on the par 4 where I’ve no shot, no. Why? Because I didn’t score it. I fully expect the new system to make the necessary adjustments similar to the old clause 19 adjustment.

That is the key point on the DQs.

Also for stroke play, just putting down a net double is not correct surely. If i have an eleven then it is 11. The net double might be 8, but isn't that only for handicapping purposes via the adjusted gross?

TheFarneyman · 02-11-2020 11:18AM

Casual rounds
From 2nd November 2020, you will now be able to return casual rounds of golf for handicap purposes by pre-registering your round as an acceptable score before you go out and play. If you are playing at a course other than your home club then you can still pre-register your score.

So am I right in saying that we can enter casual rounds over the "winter months" and our handicap can be adjusted accordingly?????

Hoboo · 02-11-2020 11:19AM

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

That's not quite the same as Disqualified (DQ) though.

No, just for NR's. If you enter NRs you'll get the double bogey score.

Pages 45-47 in this guide might answer your question, maybe not.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Guidance-on-the-WHS-Rules-of-Handicapping-as-applied-within-GBI.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjThpeD3uPsAhViaRUIHfwfAtoQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1y5xGERQbAa-2weVrhs4AT

kennethrhcp · 02-11-2020 11:22AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Afaik, you should ask for the records to be combined. It's a stupid 'feature' of the GUI system that you get a new number when you change clubs and your handicap record from the old club doesn't follow you as a result. Imo this should be automatic, but it isn't.

it's combined on golfnet & 2 lads moved clubs with me late last year & their old rounds have picked up on golf ireland so must be a little glitch with mine. will wait a few weeks to see if rectifies itself

PabloAndRoy · 02-11-2020 11:26AM

Hoboo wrote: »

No, just for NR's. If you enter NRs you'll get the double bogey score.

Pages 45-47 in this guide might answer your question, maybe not.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Guidance-on-the-WHS-Rules-of-Handicapping-as-applied-within-GBI.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjThpeD3uPsAhViaRUIHfwfAtoQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1y5xGERQbAa-2weVrhs4AT

Page 44 - DQ acceptable scores:

3.3(c) Failure to hole out in stroke play: Adjust using NDB to produce an acceptable score

So these type of DQs should be included in WHS.

spacecoyote · 02-11-2020 11:33AM

TheFarneyman wrote: »

Casual rounds
From 2nd November 2020, you will now be able to return casual rounds of golf for handicap purposes by pre-registering your round as an acceptable score before you go out and play. If you are playing at a course other than your home club then you can still pre-register your score.

So am I right in saying that we can enter casual rounds over the "winter months" and our handicap can be adjusted accordingly?????

Would assume that they still have to be played under qualifying conditions and off the correct tee placing to apply.

So if there is placing, etc... it wouldn't meet the requirement for inclusion

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 11:39AM

Seve OB wrote: »

Eh no I wouldn’t actually, I always try to finish out no matter what.
It’s a strokes comp, there are lots of them. They form part of your most recent 20 rounds. So they might not always form be one of your best 8 scores (though in my example above it does & I have had cuts in the past from NR scores) but they will also cause other scores to drop out.
In strokes it is regular that a high proportion of the field will at some stage blow up and not feel it worthwhile going back to the tee because they lost a ball they might usually find, or they couldn’t be bothered hitting a third ball off the tee etc, sure I’ve regularly seen lads not finish out on later holes because there is no point in tapping in for a 7 or whatever. This is not going to change.

What happened in the past was you’d stick a 0 in on the hole. I would fully intend on doing that in the future and not just throw in a net double because that’s what the handicap tells us to do. Would I stick a 6 down instead of an 8 on the par 4 where I’ve no shot, no. Why? Because I didn’t score it. I fully expect the new system to make the necessary adjustments similar to the old clause 19 adjustment.

This is the rule:

3.3 Strokeplay: (c) Failure to Hole Out
You must hole out at each hole in a round. If you fail to do so, you must correct that mistake before making a stroke to begin another hole or, for the final hole of the round, before returning your scorecard.
If you do not correct the mistake in that time, you are disqualified.

As you say you return your card, by definition it's not a NR. A DQ score can be counted for handicap purposes, and the missing hole score can be assessed at nett double bogey, making it a fully valid score for handicap purposes. A NR where the card is not returned, doesn't provide a score that can be assessed for handicap purposes. Under CONGU, that's a 0.1, under WHS it's a round that pushes other rounds off your record. I'm not sure that these should be considered since it's a method of manipulating your handicap. In saying that, I don't actually know if this is being done under WHS or not. But imo it should be.

gypsy79 · 02-11-2020 12:19PM

Just checked mine and one score that was previously included has disappeared

I can see that it has moved to unprocessed away scores

Also it does appear there may still be an issue surrounding 9 hole scores

Rikand · 02-11-2020 01:27PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

This is the rule:

As you say you return your card, by definition it's not a NR. A DQ score can be counted for handicap purposes, and the missing hole score can be assessed at nett double bogey, making it a fully valid score for handicap purposes. A NR where the card is not returned, doesn't provide a score that can be assessed for handicap purposes. Under CONGU, that's a 0.1, under WHS it's a round that pushes other rounds off your record. I'm not sure that these should be considered since it's a method of manipulating your handicap. In saying that, I don't actually know if this is being done under WHS or not. But imo it should be.

People who want to cheat, will cheat. Theres just nothing you can do about it

If you played off 10 and lost 3 balls off the first tee and blanked the hole and then had 17 pars, then I feel it should definitely affect your handicap.

You cant have it both ways and I think it should benefit the golfer that is trying to improve themselves as a priority, rather than hinder the cheat

ChippingSodbury · 02-11-2020 01:34PM

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

4.8 down to 4.0 without hitting a shot

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Is that not a ?

No...

Seriously though, I had a few good rounds this year and was fairly consistent. Having said that, I went from 5.8 to 4.5 so I thought it would have already been factored in. I suppose you could also say I haven't hit a shot that wasn't 100% perfect in more than 3 weeks!!

I still have the title of "best golfer in the house" which is very important (but he's getting closer...)

prawnsambo · 02-11-2020 01:38PM

Rikand wrote: »

People who want to cheat, will cheat. Theres just nothing you can do about it

If you played off 10 and lost 3 balls off the first tee and blanked the hole and then had 17 pars, then I feel it should definitely affect your handicap.

You cant have it both ways and I think it should benefit the golfer that is trying to improve themselves as a priority, rather than hinder the cheat

I think you're agreeing with me. I'm saying the situation you outline above should be included as DQ, but with the scratched hole set at nett double bogey and used for handicap purposes. No returns are where a card isn't returned, so no score for handicap purposes. Imo, they shouldn't be included.

New Worldwide Handicap System

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