Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2020/2021 - see Mod Note in OP [18/11/20]

TheCitizen · 12-10-2020 04:45AM

sugarman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/1315402841192837122

Looks like Brighton have refused to re release Connolly.

I wouldn’t blame Brighton but aren’t they under obligation to do so? Hard to make sense of the chaos this week

Brock Turnpike · 12-10-2020 06:23AM

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Mick McCarthy's four games were against tough opposition in Euro Groups with fans in attendance. The Swiss and Danes are good teams. Georgia away never easy.

Stephen Kenny's had three games in a pretty boring Nations League with no crowd in attendance. Bulgaria are a poor side. Finland are decent but we shouldn't be losing at home to them. Wales were as bad today as i've seen them in a long time and looked disinterested. Slovakia are not the team they were and were a long way off full strength and didn't have the bonus of a raucous home crowd to cheer them on in the play off.

It's hard to compare and contrast because of the difference in strength of opposition, crowds etc.

I literally said this in the first line of the post.

And reducing the Georgia game to "Georgia away is never easy" is very reductive. I could've included the Georgia home game instead, which we won but had less possession, one shot more than them, and a 78% pass success. But thought it was better to show the more recent games under Mick in which he had had time to get his mark on the team.

pjohnson · 12-10-2020 06:25AM

Obafemi has no future under Kenny hes been snubbed enough at this point so no point bringing him up.

I think with the changed eligibility rules he can still declare for Nigeria to get an international career. He did however seem pretty definite in declaring for Ireland which sucks for him

Brock Turnpike · 12-10-2020 06:46AM

Obafemi stuff coming up again despite the fact he's barely kicked a ball this season for his club.

Unearthly · 12-10-2020 06:54AM

Got caught out by the Stephen Kenny sacked thread title :pac:

pjohnson · 12-10-2020 07:35AM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Obafemi stuff coming up again despite the fact he's barely kicked a ball this season for his club.

Like that'd make a difference to Kenny.

Chalk McHugh · 12-10-2020 08:51AM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

I literally said this in the first line of the post.

And reducing the Georgia game to "Georgia away is never easy" is very reductive. I could've included the Georgia home game instead, which we won but had less possession, one shot more than them, and a 78% pass success. But thought it was better to show the more recent games under Mick in which he had had time to get his mark on the team.

Stats can be interesting but they remind me of the mini skirt: they show a lot but sometimes hide some vital parts.

yourdeadwright · 12-10-2020 09:38AM

One things that really annoys me with international football is when we play a game and lose or draw and people say "well we are heading in the right direction " or " we played nice football"

The lads only meet up once every few months train together for average of two days before games, There not "heading in any direction " they are what they are for 90 minutes and then its back to clubs for a few months .Then reset and start again with 2 days prep for the next international fixture,

The only time you get to work properly with the squad is if you qualify for a tournament that's when you get time together

International football is about results end of story ,
We are currently as bad as we where under McCarthy just in a different way ,

Id rather take our style under Trap if it meant getting to tournaments ,

pgj2015 · 12-10-2020 09:44AM

watched the game last night, they didnt do too badly but just cant score. But id rather watch good passing football and loose than watch long ball rubbish where we score from a header from a corner or free kick.

yourdeadwright · 12-10-2020 09:52AM

pgj2015 wrote: »

watched the game last night, they didnt do too badly but just cant score. But id rather watch good passing football and loose than watch long ball rubbish where we score from a header from a corner or free kick.

Obviously its a personal preference so there's no right or wrong but I could deal with football that's poor on the eye if its more effective,

But there's also the chance it won't be anymore effective ,

elefant · 12-10-2020 09:55AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Obviously its a personal preference so there's no right or wrong but I could deal with football that's poor on the eye if its more effective,

But there's also the chance it won't be anymore effective ,

Our previous football wasn't more effective, though. The last time we scored more than 1 non-own goals in a competitive game was over 20 matches ago.

The bar is so low that just stringing some passes together and creating some chances that aren't hopeful crosses or set pieces in a 0-0 draw is, indeed, heading in the right direction.

pgj2015 · 12-10-2020 09:59AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Obviously its a personal preference so there's no right or wrong but I could deal with football that's poor on the eye if its more effective,

But there's also the chance it won't be anymore effective ,

True, its like when I play 5 a side, I much prefer short passing and patience than long ball and rushing things.

weldoninhio · 12-10-2020 10:00AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

One things that really annoys me with international football is when we play a game and lose or draw and people say "well we are heading in the right direction " or " we played nice football"

The lads only meet up once every few months train together for average of two days before games, There not "heading in any direction " they are what they are for 90 minutes and then its back to clubs for a few months .Then reset and start again with 2 days prep for the next international fixture,

The only time you get to work properly with the squad is if you qualify for a tournament that's when you get time together

International football is about results end of story ,
We are currently as bad as we where under McCarthy just in a different way ,

Id rather take our style under Trap if it meant getting to tournaments ,

We're a lot worse than we were under McCarthy.

Chalk McHugh · 12-10-2020 10:03AM

I admire Kenny for having the courage of his convictions to play a more easy on the eye passing game and it is better to watch than some of the route one football played under previous managers.

Is it all about getting to major tournaments for a big jolly up every few years if the football on display is a hard watch? For me it's not. I'd rather we embrace this new style and try and create a culture of better ball players with more attention to skill, touch and creativity.

My worry is things wont go too well for Stephen and whenever he departs we will get a new big name foreign coach in once again who will consign all this 'passing and possession' football to the past and revert to the old 'up and at em' and 'put em under pressure' football that everyone outside of our island seems to think is all we are capable or good at. And the green chutes and seeds that Kenny was seeking to nurture will never get a chance to bloom and us Irish will be put in our box and how dare we try and embrace a game most other countries are now efficiant at?

The_Kew_Tour · 12-10-2020 10:04AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

We're a lot worse than we were under McCarthy.

How?

yourdeadwright · 12-10-2020 10:13AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

We're a lot worse than we were under McCarthy.

Really I think we are similar in terms of result . as I said as bad but a different kind of bad

I know your all sick of hearing it but we need 2 CF's , We playing nice football with 4 3 3 but we are not getting enough people in the box,

Goals have been and will be our problem for the foreseeable

yourdeadwright · 12-10-2020 10:20AM

Itsallbaoutgetitngt

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

I admire Kenny for having the courage of his convictions to play a more easy on the eye passing game and it is better to watch than some of the route one football played under previous managers.

Is it all about getting to major tournaments for a big jolly up every few years if the football on display is a hard watch? For me it's not. I'd rather we embrace this new style and try and create a culture of better ball players with more attention to skill, touch and creativity.

My worry is things wont go too well for Stephen and whenever he departs we will get a new big name foreign coach in once again who will consign all this 'passing and possession' football to the past and revert to the old 'up and at em' and 'put em under pressure' football that everyone outside of our island seems to think is all we are capable or good at. And the green chutes and seeds that Kenny was seeking to nurture will never get a chance to bloom and us Irish will be put in our box and how dare we try and embrace a game most other countries are now efficiant at?

Its about getting to tournaments END OF !!!!!!!!

Regardless of how the senior team play I don't buy into creating a culture of how to play for younger players,

Most of our under 21 and senior players don't play in the country, they learn how to play and learn from the culture at there clubs,

For me Senir football is about using what you have to maximum the chance of getting results,

If you want to change the culture of Irish football you start with the kids up and down the country , School's of excellence and so on, It won't start with the Senior level

Chalk McHugh · 12-10-2020 10:26AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Itsallbaoutgetitngt

Its about getting to tournaments END OF !!!!!!!!

Regardless of how the senior team play I don't buy into creating a culture of how to play for younger players,

Most of our under 21 and senior players don't play in the country, they learn how to play and learn from the culture at there clubs,

For me Senir football is about using what you have to maximum the chance of getting results,

If you want to change the culture of Irish football you start with the kids up and down the country , School's of excellence and so on, It won't start with the Senior level

I agree. That's what needs to happen.

yourdeadwright · 12-10-2020 10:37AM

sugarman wrote: »

Such rubbish, ALL football is about results. Players get to know management over the windows and learn to know what they want and expect from them in their certain roles within a system. They don't just suddenly forget it all the very minute they leave camp.

There certainly is less time to be chopping and changing and introducing a complex system. It's why most international teams play a basic 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 because they don't have the time to be working on the likes of 3-5-2.

Kenny isn't doing anything revolutionary or complicated here. No more than Mick was. They both picked basic shapes and systems with defined roles for players and stuck with it throughout.

Mick's was 4-2-3-1 with emphasis on defense to sit deep and take our chances on the break and from set plays. He wanted a target man to hold up the ball to allow the midfield to come into play. He wanted balls played out to the wingers to whip crosses into the box for target men to get on the end of.

All Kenny has done build on that by adjusting the shape to 4-3-3 to have the wide men play higher up the field and has allowed everyone more a little more freedom to get forward in general play. To hold onto the ball a little better and to use it a little better. Nothing exactly too complex.

By the end of this window our players will have had 5 games in 5 weeks with him. In an average season pre Covid, that would be the same for the majority of our players at thier clubs at this stage of the season who aren't involved in European football.

As for the Trap remark, even Traps system wouldn't work today with the squad we have available. He was heavily reliant on a goal poacher like Keane, a hold up man like Doyle, wingers like McGeady and Duff and a wall of a defense with Dunne and O'Shea at the heart of it.

Your right its not complex at all how can it be in such a short time,
That's my point its not enough time to really build anything you just have to be pragmatic and take the players you have and try get the best you can from that,

I wasn't having a go at Kenny or any manger, I was saying the notion that the team will drastic improve from one international to the next is nonsense they won't , We will continue to struggle to get goals,

To say 5 games in 5 weeks with International teams is like your average pre-season is nonsense
Pre-season with clubs they focus on all day every day consecutively what there rolls and jobs are its completely different

Nunu · 12-10-2020 11:02AM

Connolly joins Idah back in squad.

Wuff Wuff · 12-10-2020 11:07AM

Nunu wrote: »

Connolly joins Idah back in squad.

if either of them scores they should whip out a measuring tape and measure 2 metres apart and sit on the ground as a celebration

gormdubhgorm · 12-10-2020 11:08AM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Is this still from the one time you watched him play a year ago for the U21’s, which I think was his second ever game with that team?

He is still quite raw, but would say far from headless. Looks to know exactly what he’s meant to be doing at Southampton.

Really hope he gets a loan deal before the 16th, as Walcott joining Southampton will hurt his playing time.

Well, I would be delighted if he proves me wrong. But, it says a lot that Southampton signed Walcott. I agree he would be better off going down a level to the championship to get game time. It did Brewster no harm. Get the confidence going and the fitness up.

roverjoyce · 12-10-2020 11:19AM

Team has to have a few changes - I know we need a result but need to try out 4/5 others and this is not weakening the team

Travers

Doherty - We know want Randolph can do
Duffy
O'Shea
Stevens

Molumby
Knight
Hourihane/Hendrick - Either - both have played everything so far

Connolly
Idah
Horgan - Impressed off the bench and have to reward form

gormdubhgorm · 12-10-2020 11:21AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Really I think we are similar in terms of result . as I said as bad but a different kind of bad

I know your all sick of hearing it but we need 2 CF's , We playing nice football with 4 3 3 but we are not getting enough people in the box,

Goals have been and will be our problem for the foreseeable

Lack of penetrative forward passes is a major problem as well. Has to happen for this style to work.

Only thing is Ireland has no John Giles or Liam Brady. I hope, Ireland get some sort of goal v Finland. Preferably a striker from open play - not a set piece. Badly need it.

Personally I think all this passing from side to side for the sake of it is useless. Idea is to create angles and chances. Then even even if chances are created what is the point if no one finishes them?

I can't see things improving for a long time. Real worry is that commentators and analysts are feeling sorry for Kenny. Tone is of pity, and hope against hope.
Niall Quinn (forever the optimist) was predicting a flood of Ireland goals once they get one!

SomethingElse · 12-10-2020 11:27AM

roverjoyce wrote: »

Team has to have a few changes - I know we need a result but need to try out 4/5 others and this is not weakening the team

Travers

Doherty - We know want Randolph can do
Duffy
O'Shea
Stevens

Molumby
Knight
Hourihane/Hendrick - Either - both have played everything so far

Connolly
Idah
Horgan - Impressed off the bench and have to reward form

I'm not sure we've seen enough of Randolph at LB yet to be honest

dr.kenneth noisewater · 12-10-2020 12:01PM

roverjoyce wrote: »

Team has to have a few changes - I know we need a result but need to try out 4/5 others and this is not weakening the team

Travers

Doherty - We know want Randolph can do
Duffy
O'Shea
Stevens

Molumby
Knight
Hourihane/Hendrick - Either - both have played everything so far

Connolly
Idah
Horgan - Impressed off the bench and have to reward form

No need to change GK. I'd say Long will start a CB. McCarthy will start as he's stayed with the squad you'd imagine. Think that front 3 will/should start(might go with Brady over Horgan though)

Arthur Daley · 12-10-2020 12:14PM

Yeah, stick Horgan in, he did well enough off the bench yesterday. Actually dribbled a bit and went at them. Badly needed skills in short supply it would seem.

Arthur Daley · 12-10-2020 12:20PM

The benefit of the 'passing from side to side' is the ball is doing the work. One thing I'm interested in seeing is benefit in stamina and less tiredness from increased possession. That probably helped in Extra Time the other night, Ireland finished the game stronger than they may have done with a kick and rush regime.

Didn't win the game for Ireland, we know this, but players should be fresher at the end of matches in general.

BonnieSituation · 12-10-2020 12:25PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Lack of penetrative forward passes is a major problem as well. Has to happen for this style to work.

Only thing is Ireland has no John Giles or Liam Brady. I hope, Ireland get some sort of goal v Finland. Preferably a striker from open play - not a set piece. Badly need it.

Personally I think all this passing from side to side for the sake of it is useless. Idea is to create angles and chances. Then even even if chances are created what is the point if no one finishes them?

I can't see things improving for a long time. Real worry is that commentators and analysts are feeling sorry for Kenny. Tone is of pity, and hope against hope.
Niall Quinn (forever the optimist) was predicting a flood of Ireland goals once they get one!

Who?

I've seen nothing but optimism and hope tbh.

So go on, who are the naysayers outside of some of the flutes who have been moaning on here about every little thing since the year dot?

weldoninhio · 12-10-2020 12:44PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

How?

His last stint, we had 8 games, 1 loss, 3 wins and 4 draws. We played 2 teams twice (home and away) who would be a tier above us, in Denmark and Switzerland, and drew 3 out of those 4 games.

Kenny so far has had 4 games, all against team of the same tier as us or lower. 0 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses. Slovakia are awful, just got beaten by Scotland. Bulgaria are atrocious and got well beaten by Hungary during the week. Finland are about the same tier as us and we were useless, same with Bale-less Wales.

Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2020/2021 - see Mod Note in OP [18/11/20]

Comments