2020 French Open

EagererBeaver · 11-10-2020 7:55pm

Girly Gal wrote: »

Certain to add more only if he stays injury free around RG time, I don't think he'll win another slam outside RG, though not beyond him either. If he stays injury free he could add another 2 or 3 FOs,. after that time will catch up with him.

Guy has won two of the last four US Opens like.

11-10-2020 8:03pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

But you drew a direct comparison between the final in Melbourne 2019 and today's match, claiming that Novak beat him faster.

The context of that match is important, as I pointed out. Nadal has just beaten a much better version of Djokovic than Djokovic did Nadal (obviously through no fault of his own) in Melbourne.

.

Nadal himself drew a direct comparison to that match in Australia today :pac:

He didn't say anything about "not supposed to get to the final" there.

If it's good enough for Nadal to make the comparison, I feel ok doing it!

"Congrats to Novak for another great tournament. Sorry for today, you know. In Australia he killed me a couple of times ago. Today was for me, that’s part of the game. We’ve played plenty of times together: one day wins one, another day wins the other. So just all the best for the future, Novak."

Girly Gal · 11-10-2020 8:04pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Guy has won two of the last four US Opens like.

You could say the same about Federer and the AO, but, I don't see him winning another. In my opinion I don't think Rafa will win outside of RG, but, that's just my opinion, but, wouldn't be that surprised if I was proved wrong either.

Augme · 11-10-2020 8:33pm

Rafa isn't going to be a favourite or even second favourite in another slam outside of RG. I'd have novak and thiem ahead of him in australia and the US. Novak and federrer (very hard to call though as it is difficult to gauge where Roger is at now) ahead in wimbledon. I think the up and coming players will close the gap more on those surfaces too.

C__MC · 11-10-2020 9:14pm

I dont know I think Rafael Nadal is capable of winning another slam outside of paris
Hes had a decent run in aus prob left 2017 behind him and his recent Wimbledon record is fairly good, 2018 v novak also should have been his.
Four titles in flushing meadows

Why wasn't Wimbledon rescheduled?

C__MC · 11-10-2020 9:16pm

tanko wrote: »

True and Nadal beat Federer in the Wimbledon final of 2008, probably the greatest match of all time.
I don't think Federer has ever beaten Nadal in the French Open.

No he hasn't Nadal battered peak Federer a few times there, 08 was prob Nadal's greatest win in Paris

lostcat · 11-10-2020 9:36pm

C__MC wrote: »

I dont know I think Rafael Nadal is capable of winning another slam outside of paris
Hes had a decent run in aus prob left 2017 behind him and his recent Wimbledon record is fairly good, 2018 v novak also should have been his.
Four titles in flushing meadows

Why wasn't Wimbledon rescheduled?

If someone else beats Djokovic in another slam, he has every chance to be honest

dominatinMC · 11-10-2020 10:27pm

Some very disingenuous remarks on Nadals inability to win slams off clay in the future. Here is a guy who has made a career out of overcoming adversity. Even today - unfavourable conditions, heavy tennis balls, roof closed, arch-nemesis unbeaten all year, but he goes along and utterly destroys him. Back in the early phase of his career, people said he would never win off clay, so what does he do - become the youngest Career Grand Slam winner in the Open Era. People have written him off, saying his body would be crippled from his playing style - he has now won more slams (6) than anyone else in their thirties. Now some are saying he won't win off clay but Nadal, as he has all throughout his career, will prove them wrong.

I think he could win 1/2 USO before he's done, and maybe sneak an Aussie/Wimbledon too. Recent results have shown he is always in the business end of slams. As for French, he's a lock, and will more than likely end-up with the most GS when all is said and done - much to the chagrin of the Federer fanclub I'd say..

walshb · 11-10-2020 10:39pm

dominatinMC wrote: »

Some very disingenuous remarks on Nadals inability to win slams off clay in the future. Here is a guy who has made a career out of overcoming adversity. Even today - unfavourable conditions, heavy tennis balls, roof closed, arch-nemesis unbeaten all year, but he goes along and utterly destroys him. Back in the early phase of his career, people said he would never win off clay, so what does he do - become the youngest Career Grand Slam winner in the Open Era. People have written him off, saying his body would be crippled from his playing style - he has now won more slams (6) than anyone else in their thirties. Now some are saying he won't win off clay but Nadal, as he has all throughout his career, will prove them wrong.

I think he could win 1/2 USO before he's done, and maybe sneak an Aussie/Wimbledon too. Recent results have shown he is always in the business end of slams. As for French, he's a lock, and will more than likely end-up with the most GS when all is said and done - much to the chagrin of the Federer fanclub I'd say..

Spot on. In a nutshell, it will take a very very good performance to stop him winning 2/3/4 more slams..

Same for Nole.

It looks like the two of them may have the next 12-18 months as the favorites for the next 4-6 slams..

The real strong emerging talent is just not up to it..

Nole and Nadal are two monsters of the game...

Australia I’d make Nole only a slight favorite. Thiem and Nadal neck and neck to win it behind Nole...

Augme · 11-10-2020 10:44pm

C__MC wrote: »

I dont know I think Rafael Nadal is capable of winning another slam outside of paris
Hes had a decent run in aus prob left 2017 behind him and his recent Wimbledon record is fairly good, 2018 v novak also should have been his.
Four titles in flushing meadows

Why wasn't Wimbledon rescheduled?

Generally father time catches up with people very quickly and it can be quite sudden. Federer is very much a rarity. Add in Nadals injury history and it only makes it harder for him, then also add in the younger players developing and improving too.

Not impossible, but the odds are against him imo and they are only going to go one way. His best chance will definitely be this year's AO though, especially off the back of this performance. But his last win there was 2009 too so who I wouldn't exactly be heavily favouring him.

There's no lights in wimbledon which made it very difficult to reschedule given the us open was in September. Not feasible to go any later I to the year and even then with the virus it was hard to know how it would all go.

walshb · 12-10-2020 10:36am

Augme wrote: »

But his last win there was 2009 too so who I wouldn't exactly be heavily favouring him.

.

But he would be very close to being the favorite....yes, he has not won it since 2009, but has been in a a few finals, and the two from 2012 and 2017 were razor close 5 set losses.....both epic matches

The point that is being made, is that he is always there or thereabouts at the end, giving him that chance to add more slams..

walshb · 12-10-2020 10:39am

C__MC wrote: »

No he hasn't Nadal battered peak Federer a few times there, 08 was prob Nadal's greatest win in Paris

In the 16 FOs from 2005 to 2020 I think Nadal only lost two matches.....Nole in 2015 and Soderling in 2009.....?

dominatinMC · 12-10-2020 10:54am

walshb wrote: »

In the 16 FOs from 2005 to 2020 I think Nadal only lost two matches.....Nole in 2015 and Soderling in 2009.....?

Yep, and the Djokovic defeat came during Nadal's worst ever year on tour and all-round low point. 2016 he withdrew due to injury.

lostcat · 12-10-2020 11:15am

dominatinMC wrote: »

Yep, and the Djokovic defeat came during Nadal's worst ever year on tour and all-round low point. 2016 he withdrew due to injury.

that kind of stuff isn't really relevant, he showed up, he got beat ( same goes for all players, if course)

JuanBerrosa · 12-10-2020 11:56am

C__MC wrote: »

Unbelievable by Nadal I didn't see that coming tbh

Stakes are high next January in Oz

You didn't see that coming ???

How could you possibly not see it coming ?
This is literally the only competition that you can look 5 years into the future with 100% CERTAINTY that Nadal will be the champion.

I am amazed the way people are surprised that a 34 year old Nadal, muscles bursting and sweat pouring continues to power through French Opens without dropping a set - are surprised.

This was obvious to anyone who remotely likes tennis that Nadal would win this.

I wonder who will win the 2021/22/23/24 French Opens ??

Nadal

Only in 2025 can we go from 100% certain to 90% certain that Nadal will be the champ.

The game is a mess, the new guys are worse than useless.
Sampras and Ivanisevic could dust off their racquets and beat most of these new chumps.

Girly Gal · 12-10-2020 1:57pm

JuanBerrosa wrote: »

You didn't see that coming ???

How could you possibly not see it coming ?
This is literally the only competition that you can look 5 years into the future with 100% CERTAINTY that Nadal will be the champion.

I am amazed the way people are surprised that a 34 year old Nadal, muscles bursting and sweat pouring continues to power through French Opens without dropping a set - are surprised.

This was obvious to anyone who remotely likes tennis that Nadal would win this.

I wonder who will win the 2021/22/23/24 French Opens ??
Nadal

Only in 2025 can we go from 100% certain to 90% certain that Nadal will be the champ.

The game is a mess, the new guys are worse than useless.
Sampras and Ivanisevic could dust off their racquets and beat most of these new chumps.

I agree the younger guys are poor and seem to be waiting for the big 3 to retire rather than upping their game and pushing them into retirement. It's a sad state of affairs that a crocked and well past it Federer is as likely to win a slam as the younger guys next year and I don't rate his chances highly.
You might be exaggerating with Nadal winning the next 5 FOs, I think if he stays injury free 3 are definitely possible, but, surely at that stage some younger guy, even someone we're not aware of now will come along and challenge him in Paris.
If he does do what you're saying it'll be an absolute farce for tennis- great achievement for Nadal (and not his fault)- but it would be extremely bad for the game.

12-10-2020 2:47pm

surprised anyone actually replied to that post tbh

on Nadal - whatever about his age - he was amazing yesterday - pretty much flawless in the first 2 sets.

Nobody would have beaten him.

lostcat · 12-10-2020 8:32pm

glasso wrote: »

surprised anyone actually replied to that post tbh

on Nadal - whatever about his age - he was amazing yesterday - pretty much flawless in the first 2 sets.

Nobody would have beaten him.

He was flawless for two sets, it was as good a final performance as I have seen to be honest.

Djokovic, however, didn't do himself any favours. I see he was mid 40%s with his first serve in the first set, which wouldnt have won the set against an average nadal, let alone nadal in god mode.
that he was too banboozled to stop drop shotting when it was obvious that it wasn't having the desired effect was also poor (if i remember correctly he did the same thing in the final he lost against Stan, continually drop shotting to adverse affect).

he wasn't going to win yesterday with the way Nadal came out, but he should have been able to keep it tight. the manner of the loss will shake him up a bit i would think.

12-10-2020 8:54pm

lostcat wrote: »

He was flawless for two sets, it was as good a final performance as I have seen to be honest.

Djokovic, however, didn't do himself any favours. I see he was mid 40%s with his first serve in the first set, which wouldnt have won the set against an average nadal, let alone nadal in god mode.
that he was too banboozled to stop drop shotting when it was obvious that it wasn't having the desired effect was also poor (if i remember correctly he did the same thing in the final he lost against Stan, continually drop shotting to adverse affect).

he wasn't going to win yesterday with the way Nadal came out, but he should have been able to keep it tight. the manner of the loss will shake him up a bit i would think.

he was well beaten but if you were watching the match it was actually competitive in a weird way - even the first 2 sets.

as I had the stat yesterday he actually hit more winners than Nadal in the first 2 sets.

and the the first 8 or 10 drop-shots were actually very effective against Nadal - the ones after that not so much.

Djokovic will get over that fairly quickly I think - he's in that sort of space the last couple of years - getting to the French final already shows that the US debacle didn't mark him.

Tbh aside from that moment which cost him he'd have the US Open and if Wimbledon had happened probably would have taken that too (by far the most likely to do so). So only coming away with 1 slam out of 3 that he would have had.

Could be decisive in the total slam number stakes.

He'll certainly be motivated for Australia.

That's why Nadal was even more of a determined beast than usual in the final I think yesterday - knows that Djokovic is (for the moment) the force on the other surfaces so wasn't going to relinquish his hold on RG.

Hector Savage · 12-10-2020 8:58pm

walshb wrote: »

Nole and Rafa are not winning this slam!!!

Hector Savage wrote: »

Just stuck €20 on Nadal @2.5 on bwin ... money in the bank, I usually don't bother betting on him in the French as odds are 1.00001 , but they are just throwing money away here, pity I don't have more cash to spare!!

Hector Savage wrote: »

The first half of this post is 100% true, and the second half is 100% false.

a beautiful ying and yang symmetry ..

I knew it would happen and didn't put more on, ah well hindsight is the perfect science !

Hector Savage · 12-10-2020 9:01pm

JuanBerrosa wrote: »

You didn't see that coming ???

How could you possibly not see it coming ?
This is literally the only competition that you can look 5 years into the future with 100% CERTAINTY that Nadal will be the champion.

I am amazed the way people are surprised that a 34 year old Nadal, muscles bursting and sweat pouring continues to power through French Opens without dropping a set - are surprised.

This was obvious to anyone who remotely likes tennis that Nadal would win this.

I wonder who will win the 2021/22/23/24 French Opens ??
Nadal

Only in 2025 can we go from 100% certain to 90% certain that Nadal will be the champ.

The game is a mess, the new guys are worse than useless.
Sampras and Ivanisevic could dust off their racquets and beat most of these new chumps.

Spot on, but I wouldn't say that many, but for sure he will win another 2 or 3 French opens, and perhaps the odd USO or AO.

25 slams is very achievable for him.
I can't wait to see the media tho when he is still challenging for the FO at 40 - will they finally admit that this is a bit odd to say the least ?

Girly Gal · 12-10-2020 9:42pm

We're going from a golden generation of men's tennis to possibly the weakest generation ever. If the younger guys were even of the normal expected standard, Djokovic and Nadal wouldn't be as dominant as they are. Guys in their mid twenties should be able to outlast guys in their thirties regardless of how good sport science has become in increasing sports careers, the younger guys also have this benefit so it shouldn't be a factor.
The younger guys need at a minimum to match the effort and dedication of Nadal and Djokovic.
The only one who seems to be doing this is Thiem and he's just not good enough, others like Tsitsipas, Zverev and Medvedev probably have the weapons to hurt Nadal and Djokovic but aren't applying themselves enough.
Djokovic is the example they should follow, in the early part of his career he often gave in or retired when matches were going against him, he completely turned himself inside out in order to get to the level required to compete with Nadal and Federer to a point where he began to dominate them, he is now probably the strongest player mentally in the game with only Nadal at the same level.
The younger guys have to step it up, Nadal and Djokovic aren't simply going to step aside, the younger guys will have to push them aside.
While it's great to see Nadal, Djokovic and even Federer play each other, it's bad for the game long term if Djokovic and Nadal continue to dominate the game over the next few years.

12-10-2020 10:11pm

Girly Gal wrote: »

We're going from a golden generation of men's tennis to possibly the weakest generation ever. If the younger guys were even of the normal expected standard, Djokovic and Nadal wouldn't be as dominant as they are. Guys in their mid twenties should be able to outlast guys in their thirties regardless of how good sport science has become in increasing sports careers, the younger guys also have this benefit so it shouldn't be a factor.
The younger guys need at a minimum to match the effort and dedication of Nadal and Djokovic.
The only one who seems to be doing this is Thiem and he's just not good enough, others like Tsitsipas, Zverev and Medvedev probably have the weapons to hurt Nadal and Djokovic but aren't applying themselves enough.
Djokovic is the example they should follow, in the early part of his career he often gave in or retired when matches were going against him, he completely turned himself inside out in order to get to the level required to compete with Nadal and Federer to a point where he began to dominate them, he is now probably the strongest player mentally in the game with only Nadal at the same level.
The younger guys have to step it up, Nadal and Djokovic aren't simply going to step aside, the younger guys will have to push them aside.
While it's great to see Nadal, Djokovic and even Federer play each other, it's bad for the game long term if Djokovic and Nadal continue to dominate the game over the next few years.

They will be beaten. It's actually good in a way that Djokovic and Nadal (we will see outside of RG) can still operate at a high level.

It will push some of the younger guys to raise up their standard to be able to do it.

They will get better and Djokovic and Nadal will, for all their skill and experience (and supreme mental strength) won't be able to resist them in the end.

Might not be 2021 as Djokovic is still mobile and strong.

He's not long 33 for flip's sake (end of May) - he's not an OAP

And there have been feck all tournaments this year so it's like a rest year

The longevity of tennis players has been on an upward trend in the last 10 to 15 years so it's not so surprising.

People live longer in general and they will be retired long enough. Also you have the total slam number driving them on.

And as said these are just the best 3 tennis players ever, not some 1 week at number jobs. Hardly shocking that they are still very good if they have the motivation to stick at it.

It's a bit of a boring point at this stage imo

It will happen when it happens.

lostcat · 12-10-2020 10:59pm

i think 2020 as the gap year will suit the younger guys rather than Nadal/Djokovic/Federer.

the old guys got a year older, the younger guys got a year stronger (Tsitsipas is unlikley to fade that much in a fifth set next September, Djokovic is unlikely to finish a fifth set quite as stongly, etc.)

i've said this before, but once the the three lads are gone for a year, a lot of the other guys seem to be in or around the same level, the matches will be competitive and we will hopefully be happy enough.

Skinner and a couple of other teenagers looks like they will be fun to watch.

just saw someone point out elsewhere that if nadal wins one more French Open, he will have as many FOs as Sampras has total Slams. Insane.

Chivito550 · 12-10-2020 11:33pm

lostcat wrote: »

i think 2020 as the gap year will suit the younger guys rather than Nadal/Djokovic/Federer.

the old guys got a year older, the younger guys got a year stronger (Tsitsipas is unlikley to fade that much in a fifth set next September, Djokovic is unlikely to finish a fifth set quite as stongly, etc.)

i've said this before, but once the the three lads are gone for a year, a lot of the other guys seem to be in or around the same level, the matches will be competitive and we will hopefully be happy enough.

Skinner and a couple of other teenagers looks like they will be fun to watch.

just saw someone point out elsewhere that if nadal wins one more French Open, he will have as many FOs as Sampras has total Slams. Insane.

You can also say that Sampras has as many Wimbledon titles as Nadal has Wimbledon/US/Australian titles combined.

Hector Savage · 13-10-2020 7:37am

Chivito550 wrote: »

You can also say that Sampras has as many Wimbledon titles as Nadal has Wimbledon/US/Australian titles combined.

Exactly, it's a very top heavy slam count, right now - Federers 20 is more impressive than Nadals it's more distributed.

However this will change , I expect Nadal to be able to win one more AO and 3/4 more FOs..

And then he will be the only man to have won them all at least twice....

very depressing.

Rob2D · 13-10-2020 8:48am

Girly Gal wrote: »

Guys in their mid twenties should be able to outlast guys in their thirties regardless of how good sport science has become

They can. They just usually lose before that.

Experience is hard to beat. That medical science has this talent and experience hanging around for longer than ever before. Such experience will beat a pair of fresh legs most days.

Girly Gal · 13-10-2020 10:16am

Rob2D wrote: »

They can. They just usually lose before that.

Experience is hard to beat. That medical science has this talent and experience hanging around for longer than ever before. Such experience will beat a pair of fresh legs most days.

Tsitsipas faded badly in the last set against Djokovic, so he clearly isn't able to outlast Djokovic, regardless of sport science the younger guys should at the very least be able to outlast Djokovic and Nadal. Experience is important but, if the other guy is fresher than you it won't count in the long run, after all Federer is more experienced than anyone, but, he simply runs out of steam now if the match gets extended

There's a strong possibility we'll be having the same conversation in 2 years time, still waiting for the younger guys to mature. I hope I'm wrong and the younger guys begin to dominate at grand slam level in the next 18 months. Djokovic and Nadal shouldn't be as dominant as they are at this stage of their career regardless of their greatness and experience or sport science. Of course I'd expect them to be very competitive and win the odd slam, but, not almost completely dominance.

The younger guys appear to be waiting for Djokovic and Nadal to retire rather than upping their own game.

Joe_ Public · 13-10-2020 10:33am

The real barrier is mental, i would think anyway. These guys all came up when the aura of the big 3 was in full swing and i wonder if any of them ever truly believed they could smash it. If they did, they were very soon disabused of the notion. Over time that aura gradually diminishes and the fear factor goes. Osaka beating williams, refusing to be intimidated while the latter pulled all kinds of stunts at FM couple of years back, was the date, i think, that serenas fear factor was finally cancelled out. Younger generation led by Sinner and others, will show them less respect and begin to believe more but maybe a couple of years down the line yet.

13-10-2020 1:06pm

Tennis is a combination of agility, power, skill, experience and mental strength.

All 5 go to make up the perfect tennis player match-winning machine.

The younger guys might have more of the first 2 compared to Djokovic and Nadal but less of the next 2 and definitely less of the last attribute.

2020 French Open

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