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Level 3 National restrictions - Your Q & A's megathread

  • 06-10-2020 8:11am
    #1
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭


    The rest of us join Dublin and Donegal on Level 3 at midnight tonight

    This thread is where you can ask questions about what it means, and some of the practical issues surrounding the increase in restrictions being brought in


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Comments

  • #2
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,973 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    When will those idiots who aren't wearing masks, gathering in large groups and generally being reckless dickheads ever cop on???


  • #3
    EDit
    Registered Users Posts: 819 ✭✭✭EDit


    Good idea...my question is whether it is a strict “do not travel outside of your county” or whether there is a distance limit alternative. i live in Athlone (on the Westmeath side) but my local PO is on the Roscommon side (~5 mins in the car). Strictly speaking, am i breaking the Level 3 rules by going to that PO?


  • #4
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,973 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    EDit wrote: »
    Good idea...my question is whether it is a strict “do not travel outside of your county” or whether there is a distance limit alternative. i live in Athlone (on the Westmeath side) but my local PO is on the Roscommon side (~5 mins in the car). Strictly speaking, am i breaking the Level 3 rules by going to that PO?

    Essential travel is still allowed


  • #5
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,431 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    EDit wrote: »
    Good idea...my question is whether it is a strict “do not travel outside of your county” or whether there is a distance limit alternative. i live in Athlone (on the Westmeath side) but my local PO is on the Roscommon side (~5 mins in the car). Strictly speaking, am i breaking the Level 3 rules by going to that PO?

    Of course you can. Shopping or the PO are permitted as essential travel.


  • #6
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    When will those idiots who aren't wearing masks, gathering in large groups and generally being reckless dickheads ever cop on???

    Please stick to the topic. There's a dedicated mask thread and the main thread is another place to discuss them. Beyond how requirements may or may not change under Level 3 it's not a topic for this thread


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  • #7
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    We have a hotel break booked in our own county in a few weeks time
    Assuming things don’t escalate further we may go
    However I am still confused by the wording of hotels “services limited to residents”
    Does that mean that the bar and restaurant attached to hotel can serve people who are boiled in to stay only ?
    We would definitely go if that was the case !
    We went over the summer to another hotel in the town when all other pubs were closed and the hotel bar was chaos and a very unpleasant experience !


  • #8
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    km79 wrote: »
    We have a hotel break booked in our own county in a few weeks time
    Assuming things don’t escalate further we may go
    However I am still confused by the wording of hotels “services limited to residents”
    Does that mean that the bar and restaurant attached to hotel can serve people who are boiled in to stay only ?
    We would definitely go if that was the case !
    We went over the summer to another hotel in the town when all other pubs were closed and the hotel bar was chaos and a very unpleasant experience !

    Yes, bar/food for residents only.


  • #9
    airmax87
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭airmax87


    Why exactly arent donegal/dublin at a higher level ?


  • #10
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    airmax87 wrote: »
    Why exactly arent donegal/dublin at a higher level ?

    I believe there's a few other counties (or regions/towns within them) with similar problems now (when measured by new cases /100k people - see https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/).

    That is probably why. They are not quite so "special" any more.
    An attempt at being consistent would require more counties to be moved to "level 4" along side those 2 and it looks like govt. are going with a strategy of keeping as much as possible open around the country for as long as they can.


  • #11
    kksaints
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭kksaints


    Do driving lessons count as essential journey's and will driving tests take place. I have a test in a few weeks time in a different county to the one that I'm currently resident.


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  • #12
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    Despite the fact that everyone keeps calling it level 3, we're not at Level 3.

    The Level 3 plan was published on September 15th and had remained largely unchanged until Monday, with the exception of additions indicating the extra restrictions applying to Dublin and Donegal.

    There have been a couple of significant changes made to it since Sunday and the sections for restaurants and pubs now contain the restrictions which were originally only present at level 4.

    The other main change was the additional of a line to the restriction on weddings to state that guests may not attend a wedding in a different county.

    Some other sections around sport have been rewritten since the original but I think the meaning is largely unchanged.

    I appreciate that it's an evolving situation. But the whole point of having a clearly defined five stage plan is that you can say "we're going to level 3" and everyone knows what that means. If you're going to a particular level but with changes, then that should be highlighted as such, as was done for Dublin and Donegal.

    But by silently rewriting the definition of level 3 the very first time it's been used nationwide, they've just totally undermined it It's actually worse than not having a five stage plan at all, since people are being told we're at level 3 but we have restrictions contradicting what level 3 previously stated. It may as well go in the bin now.

    So there is no 5 stage plan, or level 3, we just have whatever restrictions are put in place on an ad-hoc basis.


  • #13
    ellejay
    Registered Users Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭ellejay


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    I believe there's a few other counties (or regions/towns within them) with similar problems now (when measured by new cases /100k people - see https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/).

    That is probably why. They are not quite so "special" any more.
    An attempt at being consistent would require more counties to be moved to "level 4" along side those 2 and it looks like govt. are going with a strategy of keeping as much as possible open around the country for as long as they can.

    that link is vey interesting, thank you


  • #14
    BraveDonut
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭BraveDonut


    To clarify - is outdoor dining in pubs limited to 15 people for level 3 or is that level 4?

    (Can't imagine anywhere bothering to open at that rate)


  • #15
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    EDit wrote: »
    Good idea...my question is whether it is a strict “do not travel outside of your county” or whether there is a distance limit alternative. i live in Athlone (on the Westmeath side) but my local PO is on the Roscommon side (~5 mins in the car). Strictly speaking, am i breaking the Level 3 rules by going to that PO?




    In June they had a 15km idea for people on county boundaries, they should really clarify this.


  • #16
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    BraveDonut wrote: »
    To clarify - is outdoor dining in pubs limited to 15 people for level 3 or is that level 4?

    (Can't imagine anywhere bothering to open at that rate)

    It was only level at 4 until yesterday, then they changed level 3 from "indoor with additional restrictions" to outdoor with 15 people only.


  • #17
    sphinxicus
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭sphinxicus


    MOH wrote: »

    The other main change was the additional of a line to the restriction on weddings to state that guests may not attend a wedding in a different county.
    Sadly some hotels seem to be turning a blind eye to this addition and are actively suggesting that you provide an address that is within the same county as the hotel.
    MOH wrote: »
    But by silently rewriting the definition of level 3 the very first time it's been used nationwide, they've just totally undermined it It's actually worse than not having a five stage plan at all, since people are being told we're at level 3 but we have restrictions contradicting what level 3 previously stated. It may as well go in the bin now.

    So there is no 5 stage plan, or level 3, we just have whatever restrictions are put in place on an ad-hoc basis.

    You are spot on here. They have amended it too much now. The communication from the govt has been farcical. No wonder people are confused as to what they should/shouldn’t do. I could even understand some of the hotels getting confused (although the example i mentioned was a blatant lets get around the rules incident).

    New Zealand had it spot on with their levels. They published them, they stuck to them regardless of who in the public moaned. In the end it was very slick, if the situation hit the targets set for moving to the next level, it happened and joe public knew what that meant for them.

    The only consistent message ive seen here is, "socially distance, wash your hands, cough etiquette"


  • #18
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Our landlord sends a cleaner around twice a month that we don't really want at the best of times nevermind during a pandemic, are level 3 restrictions enough to tell him to piss off?


  • #19
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,091 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Essential travel is still allowed

    All travel is still allowed, the Guards do not have any power to stop you making your lawful way to whatever place you want.

    They were pulled up on this before for passing off guidelines as the law. They've done it again and the media is endorsing it with the language used.


  • #20
    moonage
    Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭moonage


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    All travel is still allowed, the Guards do not have any power to stop you making your lawful way to whatever place you want.

    They were pulled up on this before for passing off guidelines as the law. They've done it again and the media is endorsing it with the language used.

    I wonder how much of Level 3 is advice and not law.

    Clearly, things like "it is advised ,"it is recommended" are guidelines. For example, are the following the law or guidelines?
    -visitors to private homes and gardens should be limited to a maximum number of 6 from one other household.
    -no social/family gatherings should take place, with exemptions to this for weddings and funerals (see below).
    -no organised indoor gatherings should take place. Organised outdoor gatherings are permitted, up to a maximum of 15 people.


  • #21
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    moonage wrote: »
    I wonder how much of Level 3 is advice and not law.

    Clearly, things like "it is advised ,"it is recommended" are guidelines. For example, are the following the law or guidelines?

    They're laws, or will be shortly - they've issued SIs for all the regional restrictions so far (e.g. SI 352 implemented those restrictions for Dublin).

    I'm not sure about enforcement though. They're all issued under the same of section the 1947 Health Act and that includes "Regulations under this section may provide for their enforcement and execution by officers of the Minister and by health authorities and their officers.....".

    But if the SI itself doesn't specify enforcement measures then I don't know. I can't be bothered trawling through all the amendments since 1947 to see if something was added. Or presumable they could issue a separate SI to cover that.


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  • #22
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users Posts: 84,954 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    BraveDonut wrote: »
    To clarify - is outdoor dining in pubs limited to 15 people for level 3 or is that level 4?

    (Can't imagine anywhere bothering to open at that rate)

    I think no indoor dining only outdoor dining for 15, and with this weather, lovely
    https://forumofgames.com/




  • #23
    deniseedoo
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭deniseedoo


    Due to attend a wedding that will happen while restrictions are in place. My understanding is that a wedding is not an essential journey and says on gov.ie website that guests cannot attend weddings in another county to the one they are resident in.
    Most guests at this wedding would be attending from outside the county (only 25, I know).

    Groom called last night and said the hotel have said not to worry about it, have guests from different counties, they won't be checking that.

    Is this not a breach of restrictions? I know I'm free not to attend and I probably won't, but it is concerning that a hotel is willingly letting a group from at least 6 different counties gather for a whole day.
    Posting out of interest more than anything else, maybe I have it wrong.


  • #24
    MIRMIR82
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭MIRMIR82


    Yes, hotel is in breach 100%


  • #25
    dmakc
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭dmakc


    Under a blanket level approach defining people by their county is a joke to begin with. Let them enjoy their day it was fine only a few days ago.

    If you're not comfortable then don't go. No need to spoil it on everyone else


  • #26
    deniseedoo
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭deniseedoo


    MIRMIR82 wrote: »
    Yes, hotel is in breach 100%

    Seems very unfair on so many other hotels who have had to close because they can't justify opening their doors when there will be restrictions in place on who can visit. Doesn't seem right that another can just decide 'f#$k that.' I know they have lost a lot of money and need the business but at what cost?


  • #27
    wardides
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭wardides


    MIRMIR82 wrote: »
    Yes, hotel is in breach 100%

    Just to play devils advocate, if everyone is booked in to stay at a hotel (aka a resident that day) what are they in breach of? I don't think it is legally up to hotel to check if all the wedding party are coming from the same county. If they are serving alcohol & food to non residents of the hotel then it looks like they are in breach of gov advice.


  • #28
    deniseedoo
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭deniseedoo


    dmakc wrote: »
    Under a blanket level approach defining people by their county is a joke to begin with. Let them enjoy their day it was fine only a few days ago.

    If you're not comfortable then don't go. No need to spoil it on everyone else

    How will I be spoiling it? As I said, I'm unlikely to go. Made it clear in the original post that I am just asking out of curiosity, I'm not planning on calling in the guards on them. Jesus


  • #29
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,729 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Given the county restriction is unenforceable advice, if stopped by the Gardai you only need to thank them for their advice and continue on your journey. Personally I will be staying in my county, but at the end of the day this is your choice, and you would be breaking no law. I also have not paid for a hotel stay at a wedding as you might have already.


  • #30
    TexasTornado
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 285 ✭✭TexasTornado


    deniseedoo wrote: »
    Due to attend a wedding that will happen while restrictions are in place. My understanding is that a wedding is not an essential journey and says on gov.ie website that guests cannot attend weddings in another county to the one they are resident in.
    Most guests at this wedding would be attending from outside the county (only 25, I know).

    Groom called last night and said the hotel have said not to worry about it, have guests from different counties, they won't be checking that.

    Is this not a breach of restrictions? I know I'm free not to attend and I probably won't, but it is concerning that a hotel is willingly letting a group from at least 6 different counties gather for a whole day.
    Posting out of interest more than anything else, maybe I have it wrong.

    It's carry on like that from hotels that will screw us all.


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  • #31
    deniseedoo
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭deniseedoo


    Mr.S wrote: »
    Is it the hotels responsibility to ask every guest which county they travelled from? Surely that's on the individual. What if the guests lie? There is no way to "prove" it.

    The hotel has to ensure capacity is limited per restrictions and that is 100% their responsibility.

    Traveling from another county to attend the wedding is a breach of restrictions, but (IMO) it doesn't fall to the hotel themselves to enforce.

    Given that the guest list is so small, would there not be a way of asking the couple to provide those details? I suppose they could like as well, you're right. I know it's a burden but given the circumstances. An outbreak of covid related to a wedding is a lot worse than extra admin.


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