Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

GooglePlus · 05-10-2020 02:52PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/moving-to-level-5-is-only-way-to-control-covid-19-and-keep-schools-open-nphet-1.4372401?mode=amp

An acknowledgement that schools are some sort of driver, with this kind of language.

“The proposed measures will only be effective if there is broad societal buy-in and adherence over the coming four week period,” it warns.

I don't think the buy in will be anything near the likes of earlier in the year, especially coming into Christmas time.

brick tamland · 05-10-2020 02:52PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

616 cases in NI today.

Have to worry that with a reservoir of the virus just over the border that restrictions may be like pissing into the wind.

Yep, if we went to level 5 (I don't think we will, but), there is nothing to stop anyone from the North travelling to anywhere in the republic. They can come and go as they please while we will be meant to be within 5km from our homes.

Looking at the positive and testing rates up there, true picture must be much worse than published figures too.

Open the Pubs · 05-10-2020 02:53PM

Sconsey wrote: »

With your username and recently created account it's hard to take anyting you say seriously. It looks like you have a single motivation and will say anything to push that agenda.

I openly say I want pubs open. Others selfishly cheerlead their agenda and ulterior motives through vague disingenuous posts trying to hide their own agenda, many of whom are financially well off regardless of restrictions.

Very obvious how the lockdown cheerleaders, are in safe pensionable well paid jobs. Calling for others to sacrifice everything and lose their livelihoods while the lockdown cheerleaders sacrifice nothing.

Indeed many of the lockdown cheerleaders are profiting from the pandemic. Luke O'Neill has made over 500 million euros recently. Will he be financially affected by lockdown?

Hamsterchops · 05-10-2020 02:53PM

(If level 5 has to be introduced) then I'd rather they took the short-sharp-shock approach and brought it in now, thereby leaving enough room for us to exit the tunnel and return to level 2 just before Christmas.....

Charles Babbage · 05-10-2020 02:55PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely . It should not have been leaked at all . My phone was hopping with worried , anxious and upset friends and family . They honestly feel they just cannot do this again

Will they be any less worried, anxious or upset if the thing runs out of control and you can't get into a hospital? It isn't NPHET or their proposals that should bother anyone, it is the need for them.

stephenjmcd · 05-10-2020 02:55PM

Ger Roe wrote: »

Not this one again.... where have you been for the past seven months?. No restriction was ever implemented for a cast iron defined time period, they never say/said that. It's always 'at least until...' and depending on specific criteria improvement.

If introduced, it probably won't be for just four weeks, everyone knows that, but equally everyone has an obligation to help hit the target.

And?? You wont see me disagree with what you've said.

Point was being made in the context of people out doing Christmas shopping today, couldn't blame them for heading out today when being skeptical of it only being 4 weeks hence people out today getting a few things. That was the point being made

Gael23 · 05-10-2020 02:56PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

(If level 5 has to be introduced) then I'd rather they took the short-sharp-shock approach and brought it in now, thereby leaving enough room for us to exit the tunnel and return to level 2 just before Christmas.....

It won’t be short that’s the problem

Allinall · 05-10-2020 02:56PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

I openly say I want pubs open. Others selfishly cheerlead their agenda and ulterior motives through vague disingenuous posts trying to hide their own agenda, many of whom are financially well off regardless of restrictions.

Very obvious how the lockdown cheerleaders, are in safe pensionable well paid jobs. Calling for others to sacrifice everything and lose their livelihoods while the lockdown cheerleaders sacrifice nothing.

Indeed many of the lockdown cheerleaders are profiting from the pandemic. Luke O'Neill has made over 500 million euros recently. Will he be financially affected by lockdown?

No he didn't.

wadacrack · 05-10-2020 02:56PM

The reason we are in his position is because the Government ignored many of NPHET's restrictions. We should be listening to public health expertise in the middle of a pandemic

Sconsey · 05-10-2020 02:57PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

I openly say I want pubs open. Others selfishly cheerlead their agenda and ulterior motives through vague disingenuous posts trying to hide their own agenda, many of whom are financially well off regardless of restrictions.

Very obvious how the lockdown cheerleaders, are in safe pensionable well paid jobs. Calling for others to sacrifice everything and lose their livelihoods while the lockdown cheerleaders sacrifice nothing.

Indeed many of the lockdown cheerleaders are profiting from the pandemic. Luke O'Neill has made over 500 million euros recently. Will he be financially affected by lockdown?

I guess I'll add name-calling to the list of reasons not to take you seriously too.

SleetAndSnow · 05-10-2020 02:57PM

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1313115849000185856?s=20

Thomas.. · 05-10-2020 02:57PM

I'm not getting something here

Why is there "consternation in government" that the recommendations are not being flagged in advance?

Does Nphet have to flag in advance that they are going to make new recommendations to the government in private, which the government then leaked?

Would be like ringing a friend to tell them you're going to ring them tomorrow

KrustyUCC · 05-10-2020 02:57PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

(If level 5 has to be introduced) then I'd rather they took the short-sharp-shock approach and brought it in now, thereby leaving enough room for us to exit the tunnel and return to level 2 just before Christmas.....

No chance of level 2 before Christmas as the CMO was always reluctant to ease restrictions

They would go Level 5 for 4 weeks then Level 4 for 4 weeks and Level 3 for 4 weeks

That's all going well

Hurrache · 05-10-2020 02:59PM

Thomas.. wrote: »

I'm not getting something here

Why is there "consternation in government" that the recommendations are not being flagged in advance?

Does Nphet have to flag in advance that they are going to make new recommendations to the government in private, which the government then leaked?

Would be like ringing a friend to tell them you're going to ring them tomorrow

It's a bit bizarre, and a lot hysterical. Given the trend in numbers, and the fact they were having a meeting yesterday, what Rip Van Winkles would be surprised at such a recommendation?

Non solum non ambulabit · 05-10-2020 02:59PM

seamus wrote: »

So this brings up a few thoughts. Most of the issues raised come from socialising and home visits. Too many people seeing too many people.

So it seems clear that's the part we need to target. We need to curtail socialising, in a big way.

But NPHET have been given a five level plan to choose from.

I'm wondering if it's the case that Dr. Holohan is saying, "We need to implement the socialising restrictions in level 5, but since this is all we have to choose from, then that's what I'm going to recommend."

If the outcome of today's meetings was to recommend zero visitors to homes, zero social gatherings, no weddings, communions or confirmations, closed pubs, but all other business was allowed to stay open, then I think that would be a much easier pill for people to swallow.

It's the recommendation of absolute lockdown that has peoples' back up.

If the Govt has sense this is what it will do.

stephenjmcd · 05-10-2020 03:00PM

https://twitter.com/Philip_Ryan/status/1313116162214055938?s=19

fly_agaric · 05-10-2020 03:00PM

Stheno wrote: »

the fact that nothing appears to have been done in terms of hospital capacity in the past six/seven months

I am unsure what they can do, bar maybe co-opting/absorbing the private system on a more permanent basis. That does not really increase the countries' capacity I suppose, just makes more of it directly available for Covid-19 or whatever other emergency use.

No expert but it is not only building infrastructure and getting equipment.
It is also medical staff, and it takes (4?) years to train a nurse and 7 to train a doctor to some minimum competence level.
More years for those that with specialised expertise (ICU nurses, consultants etc).

They are in great demand world wide and difficult to go and pick up off a shelf when you need them because your own medical training system and health service is not what is expected of a highly developed country.

pauldry · 05-10-2020 03:00PM

Im not sure the Govt know what to do. Im not criticising them but Im not sure they know what they CAN do.

If we lockdown wer f$$$ed and if we stay open wer f$$$ed.

GooglePlus · 05-10-2020 03:00PM

Looking back at history, as a human race we have had a very good run of stability over the last 75 years or so but it looks like we've fallen into the eyes of the textbooks of the generations ahead of us, unfortunately.

The comforts we know can't be sustained right now and that's just the reality of the situation, there's nobody to blame. We can be seen as a country who took a measured response and saved as many lives as possible or we can be the country who had it all in front of them, were advised by the experts, and still walked into the line of fire to save a few jobs that will be lost anyway down the line.

is_that_so · 05-10-2020 03:00PM

GooglePlus wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/moving-to-level-5-is-only-way-to-control-covid-19-and-keep-schools-open-nphet-1.4372401?mode=amp

An acknowledgement that schools are some sort of driver, with this kind of language.

“The proposed measures will only be effective if there is broad societal buy-in and adherence over the coming four week period,” it warns.

I don't think the buy in will be anything near the likes of earlier in the year, especially coming into Christmas time.

A way to get that buy in is to actually tell people that you are thinking of doing this, not making it a surprise Christmas present nobody wants. Disappointed in the CMO, I'm afraid. He really knows better than to deliver news in such a cackhanded manner.

Hurrache · 05-10-2020 03:01PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

Indeed many of the lockdown cheerleaders are profiting from the pandemic. Luke O'Neill ...

Are people still pedalling this crap?

tobefrank321 · 05-10-2020 03:01PM

There is no way 1 month would be enough to reduce numbers. It took 3 months of lockdown before to get numbers under control and that was a stricter lockdown (closed schools, etc).

With that lockdown we got the R0 down to 0.5. Even with lockdown cases will still continue to rise for a week or two (infections in the home) before levelling off and it will then take at least 2 months after that to get them to a manageable level. If we lockdown for a month now and open up, we will have to lockdown again in December.

Pie in the sky to believe a month long lockdown will achieve anything.

Which is why the HSE should have spent the last 6 months planning for a huge rise in cases and shielding the vulnerable.

is_that_so · 05-10-2020 03:02PM

pauldry wrote: »

Im not sure the Govt know what to do. Im not criticising them but Im not sure they know what they CAN do.

If we lockdown wer f$$$ed and if we stay open wer f$$$ed.

They are the only ones who can get creative with the measures and levels by mixing and matching stuff. As posted above they will not go quietly to Level 5.

SleetAndSnow · 05-10-2020 03:02PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

There is no way 1 month would be enough to reduce numbers. It took 3 months of lockdown before to get numbers under control and that was a stricter lockdown (closed schools, etc).

With that lockdown we got the R0 down to 0.5. Even with lockdown cases will still continue to rise for a week or two (just look at Dublin) before levelling off and it will then take at least 2 months after that to get them to a manageable level. If we lockdown for a month now and open up, we will have to lockdown again in December.

Pie in the sky to believe a month long lockdown will achieve anything.

Which is why the HSE should have spent the last 6 months planning for a huge rise in cases and shielding the vulnerable.

The community numbers were a lot higher back then. Numbers are estimated at the peak to have been around 3-5k per day in April but we weren't picking up asymtomatic etc. That is what NPHET is trying to avoid going back too because once there, then you get the hospitals and ICUs overrun. They really should have made more ICU beds, what were they doing?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 05-10-2020 03:02PM

Thomas.. wrote: »

I'm not getting something here

Why is there "consternation in government" that the recommendations are not being flagged in advance?

Does Nphet have to flag in advance that they are going to make new recommendations to the government in private, which the government then leaked?

Would be like ringing a friend to tell them you're going to ring them tomorrow

There was a meeting on Thursday. The outcome was we don't need new restrictions.

It should have been new restrictions or things look dodgy or might need new restrictions soon. Will check back later.

stephenjmcd · 05-10-2020 03:03PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Are people still pedalling this crap?

Well O'Neill is to be honest. Sold a company and now promoting a book so its safe to say he'll make a few quid of being in the media.

I don't buy into the conspiracy theories etc but its fairly clear to see he'll make some money. Not begrudging of that but its just a fact that he wouldn't probably have got more publicity without covid

GooglePlus · 05-10-2020 03:04PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

There is no way 1 month would be enough to reduce numbers. It took 3 months of lockdown before to get numbers under control and that was a stricter lockdown (closed schools, etc).

With that lockdown we got the R0 down to 0.5. Even with lockdown cases will still continue to rise for a week or two (infections in the home) before levelling off and it will then take at least 2 months after that to get them to a manageable level. If we lockdown for a month now and open up, we will have to lockdown again in December.

Pie in the sky to believe a month long lockdown will achieve anything.

Which is why the HSE should have spent the last 6 months planning for a huge rise in cases and shielding the vulnerable.

We're at a much earlier stage of the curve, so it might not be the impossible task you think it is. The virus was rampant when we first locked down, we just didn't know it. If we get in there early, we might actually set an example in Europe, for once.

KrustyUCC · 05-10-2020 03:04PM

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1313115849000185856?s=20

Seems the government are going with Level 5 if they're updating the document today

John O.Groats · 05-10-2020 03:04PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Are people still pedalling this crap?

Clearly they are.

Hurrache · 05-10-2020 03:05PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well O'Neill is to be honest. Sold a company and now promoting a book so its safe to say he'll make a few quid of being in the media.

I don't buy into the conspiracy theories etc but its fairly clear to see he'll make some money

Explain why you think he's profiting from a lock down or Covid-19?

Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

Comments