Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

Gael23 · 05-10-2020 09:34AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Quick and sharp over long and protracted pain.

Most would take the former in my view.

A couple of weeks of tougher measures would halt progression of the virus in it's tracks and provide some hope for Christmas.

At what economic and social cost?

Icyseanfitz · 05-10-2020 09:35AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Best plan is control the spread in nursing homes and hospitals, outside of that it should only be the wreckless who get it or spread it to their family so no lockdown required for the rest of us.

Issue with that is the wreckless sometimes have school going children who pass it on through full number schools

Longing · 05-10-2020 09:35AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Answer me this one.

If we have a month of level 5 and we get down to the numbers we had during the summer, then open up again surely the same cycle will repeat and come Xmas time we will be in full panic mode again.

Well for starters we need to but is a scanner in very business, shop and public buildings were it takes your temp and scans your face to see if you are wearing a mask.

SeaBreezes · 05-10-2020 09:36AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Answer me this one.

If we have a month of level 5 and we get down to the numbers we had during the summer, then open up again surely the same cycle will repeat and come Xmas time we will be in full panic mode again.

Whats the alternative NIMAN. Open up let it kill whom it may?

150,000 of us with longcovid by xmas?
Another 6,000 dead of covid?
Another 4,000 assisted deaths? (No tests, oxygen,icu for elderly)

And a tanked economy as well?
Cause thats exactly what happened in Sweden.

Numbers there only started dropping during summer break.
Even sweden are starting house isolation now. Why? Surely they are immune by now?

Icyseanfitz · 05-10-2020 09:36AM

Gael23 wrote: »

At what economic and social cost?

If we let the virus eat our hospitals our economy will collapse as well as killing thousands on this island, its lesser of two evils time

tobefrank321 · 05-10-2020 09:38AM

The government's plan to live with covid lasted all of 1 day when Dublin had to be put into stricter restrictions.

Strange thing is ICU numbers are relatively stable at around 20ish - and we were led to believe there was significant surge capacity.

GooglePlus · 05-10-2020 09:39AM

Gael23 wrote: »

At what economic and social cost?

What do you think would be better for our economy, restrictions now during a naturally quiet time for retail or on the run up to Christmas, the biggest money maker for them?

I think shutting up shop now with strict measures will get the numbers right down for some form of normality during Christmas and the economy would be thankful.

giveitholly · 05-10-2020 09:39AM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

If we let the virus eat our hospitals our economy will collapse as well as killing thousands on this island, its lesser of two evils time

Will you lose your job or business if the country goes to level 5 in the next few days?

BringBackMick · 05-10-2020 09:40AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Quick and sharp over long and protracted pain.

Most would take the former in my view.

A couple of weeks of tougher measures would halt progression of the virus in it's tracks and provide some hope for Christmas.

And what is the metric to say things have improved to move down to say level 2.

The lockdown wont be as hard as in April, cases are unlikely to drop below hundred daily, so there is limited chance for any normality anytime soon if we make this move to level 5 now....they will be scared to move it at all once cases are up...

what is the aim of it?

In the last lockdown we kept pushing it on and on and on, it looked like we wanted to get to zero cases at one point before we opened up ..

cyclops999 · 05-10-2020 09:40AM

I don't care this spike is the result of schools reopening & as long as they are open you can ban what you want but it will still be spiking.

Kermit.de.frog · 05-10-2020 09:41AM

Gael23 wrote: »

At what economic and social cost?

If measures are weak it's delaying the inevitable and prolonging uncertainty, much more costly in the medium term.

I'd rather level 5 now, cut transmission now rather than having to introduce panic restrictions at the end of October.

Not acting now leaves us in a reactionary position which is not a good place to be.

05-10-2020 09:41AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

For a system that runs at 100% plus capacity in a normal winter with hundreds of people on trolleys all over the hospitals, it won't take much to overwhelm what is the weakest health system in Europe.

Ah come off of that. The weakest health system in Europe. That's patently not true. Do you think Latvia's health system is better? What metric are you using? In patient care in my opinion is better in Ireland than the UK, (used to work for the NHS).

Where we fall down is outpatients, community services etc.

tobefrank321 · 05-10-2020 09:41AM

Holohan returns and goes for the usual sledge hammer to crack a nut approach, the equivalent of shutting down roads to stop car crashes.

Realistically we can only afford to have one more lockdown and only when we really need it.

mickdw · 05-10-2020 09:43AM

This government have put an advisory committee between Nphet and the cabinet. This is a layer of political protection for the government to allow them to not take on board nphet recommendations and at the same time not take the blame for ignoring them.
I believe we should have level 4 at least right now but government if worried about ecomony might be tempted to do less and will use the recently installed layer of political padding to protect themselves.

KrustyUCC · 05-10-2020 09:44AM

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1312979027918049280

Sardonicat · 05-10-2020 09:46AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah come off of that. The weakest health system in Europe. That's patently not true. Do you think Latvia's health system is better? What metric are you using? In patient care in my opinion is better in Ireland than the UK, (used to work for the NHS).

Where we fall down is outpatients, community services etc.

And not a and e because we don't have enough free acute beds to get people off trolleys because we have virtually zero step down services which results in beds being occupied by those still in need of care but not an acute hospital bed ? You come off it!

Icyseanfitz · 05-10-2020 09:47AM

giveitholly wrote: »

Will you lose your job or business if the country goes to level 5 in the next few days?

I don't believe so, but i am at the bottom rung of public sector so could happen. Its a horror situation currently, save economy and businesses or try to save lives and some of the economy. Not a black and white decision but safety must come first in my opinion.

05-10-2020 09:48AM

Sardonicat wrote: »

And not a and e because we don't have enough free acute beds to get people off trolleys because we have virtually zero step down services which results in beds being occupied by those still in need of care but not an acute hospital bed ? You come off it!

There is one specific hospital where this is an issue, UHL and that is due to the closing Ennis A+E.

As an aside, A+E isn't in-patient care.

ThunbergsAreGo · 05-10-2020 09:49AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If measures are weak it's delaying the inevitable and prolonging uncertainty, much more costly in the medium term.

I'd rather level 5 now, cut transmission now rather than having to introduce panic restrictions at the end of October.

Not acting now leaves us in a reactionary position which is not a good place to be.

How long do you expect level 5 to last for?

Mwengwe · 05-10-2020 09:49AM

I didn't go near public transport the last time we were locked down but as someone who doesn't drive at all I'm wondering how strictly was it policed last time? If you have an excuse for them do they probe?. It's just the train I might need to get on occasion and tbh even over the last couple of months it's been about 25% full on my journey.

batman_oh · 05-10-2020 09:50AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If measures are weak it's delaying the inevitable and prolonging uncertainty, much more costly in the medium term.

I'd rather level 5 now, cut transmission now rather than having to introduce panic restrictions at the end of October.

Not acting now leaves us in a reactionary position which is not a good place to be.

But it won't cut transmission - the schools are still open so it will continue there and it will slow it down for whatever number of weeks until the exact same thing happens again once they come out of level 5

iamwhoiam · 05-10-2020 09:51AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come off of that. The weakest health system in Europe. That's patently not true. Do you think Latvia's health system is better? What metric are you using? In patient care in my opinion is better in Ireland than the UK, (used to work for the NHS).

Where we fall down is outpatients, community services etc.

One very big difference to start with
ICU beds per 100.O00 .
Ireland 6.5
Latvia 9.7

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00134-012-2627-8/tables/2

dubdaymo · 05-10-2020 09:51AM

Nothing like this has been proposed until a certain person decided to unexpectedly return to the fold. It's obvious that the poor man's mind is gone under the heavy burden. I feel sorry for him but the country can't be allowed to be shut down again on his account.

A few months away from it all with therapy in Happy Pastures should help to slowly bring him back to an understanding of how real life works.

blowitupref · 05-10-2020 09:51AM

George Lee on RTÉ said NPHET was very clear on Thursday that the situation did not support a nationwide move to Level 3, and now we are suddenly facing the possibility of Level 5?

Simon Harris say such leaks & speculation don’t help. Today needs to bring clarity

Paul Reid questioning the need for level 5 right now as it causes other issues such as public health, wellbeing, mental health and the economy

NIMAN · 05-10-2020 09:52AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Whats the alternative NIMAN. Open up let it kill whom it may?

150,000 of us with longcovid by xmas?
Another 6,000 dead of covid?
Another 4,000 assisted deaths? (No tests, oxygen,icu for elderly)

And a tanked economy as well?
Cause thats exactly what happened in Sweden.

Numbers there only started dropping during summer break.
Even sweden are starting house isolation now. Why? Surely they are immune by now?

Is that true about Sweden?

I thought it was held up as and example of a different approach. The BBC even had an piece on their news channel about it the other night, I don't remember it mentioning hundreds of thousands dead and a tanked economy.

Re: our situation, I just think we should take some comfort in the fact that deaths are very low considering our case numbers. It's mostly younger people getting it now but it appears the older and more vulnerable are watching themselves.

I would be all for a circuit breaker for 2 weeks but all I was saying is that the cycle will reappear once that is over....People will go back to not behaving and numbers will rise again. It will be cyclical.

Funsterdelux · 05-10-2020 09:52AM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Here's a reminder of what Level 5 would entail:

• Stay at home. Exercise only within 5km of your home.
• Schools, creches and higher education remain open.
• No social or family gatherings.
• Up to 6 guests can attend a wedding.
• No organised indoor gatherings to take place.
• No organised outdoor gatherings should take place.
• No Exercise or Dance Classes. Gyms, Leisure Centres and Swimming Pools closed.
• Religious services online only. Places of worship remain open for private prayer.
• Up to 10 mourners can attend a funeral.
• Museums, Galleries and other Cultural Attractions closed.
• Bars, Cafe’s and Restaurants will operate takeaway or delivery service only.
• Pubs serving only alcohol to operate takeaway or delivery only.
• Hotels only open for essential, non social and non tourism purposes.
• Essential retail only. All the retail and personal services closed.
• Work from home unless absolutely necessary.
• Playgrounds, play areas and parks remain open.
• Public Transport restricted to 25% capacity for essential workers only.
• Visiting to residential care facilities suspended.

Is there any further detail when it comes to secondary schools @level 5 , i.e. letting them out at lunchtimes/congregating etc?

Boggles · 05-10-2020 09:52AM

150 confirmed cases in hospital 15 admission in the last 24 hours.

The situation has obviously rapidly deteriorated since Thursday. We have had about 2300 cases in the past 5 days, approaching a 500 a day average.

I imagine 50-50 if we get a briefing this evening.

Gael23 · 05-10-2020 09:52AM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

If we let the virus eat our hospitals our economy will collapse as well as killing thousands on this island, its lesser of two evils time

Is there no middle ground of Level 4 for Dublin and a few others and Level 3 for everywhere else?

odyssey06 · 05-10-2020 09:52AM

batman_oh wrote: »

But it won't cut transmission - the schools are still open so it will continue there and it will slow it down for whatever number of weeks until the exact same thing happens again once they come out of level 5

Lockdown in Kildare made sense, there was a once-off set of clusters they were trying to contain from spreading to the community.

Lockdown the whole country now due to the community transmission, while there's still no real legal restrictions on foreign travel, with schools open we will be back where we are now month after the lockdown lifts.

bennyl10 · 05-10-2020 09:53AM

Level 4 and 5 seem fairly similar to me?..
Is there any real substantial difference?

4 is surely the easier option, especially if they are the same in most things

Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

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