Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

alentejo · 04-10-2020 09:55AM

Indoor non essential Retail is the biggest impact of level 4 restrictions. Is indoor non essential retail the biggest contributor to Covid 19? Me thinks not.

Level 4 restrictions in the run up to Xmas will be financially ruinous. Why not spend the billions to add more permanent ICU beds (simpler said than done)

I think people could buy in for Level 5 restrictions for 2 to 3 weeks and not a minute more.

Goldrickssan · 04-10-2020 09:56AM

Just realised how much more depressing a lockdown will be with the weather today.

It will ruin so many people.

TexasTornado · 04-10-2020 09:58AM

The Wordress wrote: »

I have to be honest and say I was easy going enough about this Virus during the Lockdown and I knew locally of cases but they were minimal.

In the last month, the virus has been spreading through my local town like Wildfire.

I know of 6 cases that came from a pub. They were all in the pub socialising together. One of the cases spread it into his workplace and now there are positive cases from there. I know that one of the work colleagues has a wife who is due any day and he will not be able to go near the hospital now.

It has really hit home of how rampant this virus is.

I will not be going near anyone outside of work for the forseeable future. People are playing with fire with other people's health.

We all need to be more responsible!!!

So many are are being responsible but then are have the utter twits ruining it for everyone with their i couldn't give a hoot attitude. The sheer amount of tin foil hatery going on is also frankly bonkers but i guess it's sign of the times.

normanoffside · 04-10-2020 09:58AM

Arghus wrote: »

The same people giving out about the denotifications are the same who complain about how deaths attributed to Covid are artificially inflated.

Why announce 8 historic deaths and 7 denotifications over the last 2 days?Why not just add them together and announce 1 historic death?

I don’t see who historic deaths and historic denotifications have to be announced separately.

I am sure that the DOH knew well that announcing 10 deaths was going to be the headline and cause panic.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 04-10-2020 10:04AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Why announce 8 historic deaths and 7 denotifications over the last 2 days?Why not just add them together and announce 1 historic death?

I don’t see who historic deaths and historic denotifications have to be announced separately.

I am sure that the DOH knew well that announcing 10 deaths was going to be the headline and cause panic.

They make announcements of the deaths notified and denotiified in a 24 hour period. They aren't massaging the figures.

Jackman25 · 04-10-2020 10:06AM

alentejo wrote: »

Indoor non essential Retail is the biggest impact of level 4 restrictions. Is indoor non essential retail the biggest contributor to Covid 19? Me thinks not.

Level 4 restrictions in the run up to Xmas will be financially ruinous. Why not spend the billions to add more permanent ICU beds (simpler said than done)

I think people could buy in for Level 5 restrictions for 2 to 3 weeks and not a minute more.

This level stuff is just one-trick ponies floundering around in the dark.

With the CMO message last night targeted at the vulnerable, at least there might be some signs that the penny is finally starting to drop with them.

wadacrack · 04-10-2020 10:08AM

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Just realised how much more depressing a lockdown will be with the weather today.

It will ruin so many people.[/QUOTE]

People need to toughen up and start accepting that the alternative of letting this virus spread and with greater widespread transmission will be far far worse than what we are currently experiencing. Its happened in South America and virus looks to be just endemic their at the moment with high death counts every day that are showing no signs of slowing down.

What do people want ? Increased mortality rates and eventually a severely restricted healthcare system that will be on the brink of collapse. Their will be no economic recovery either. Most sane people who regard their health won't be going anywhere near Indoor setting with many people unless its essential. But as long as we can go to the pub and have a few drinks its ok.

Goldrickssan · 04-10-2020 10:22AM

wadacrack wrote: »

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Just realised how much more depressing a lockdown will be with the weather today.

It will ruin so many people.[/QUOTE]

People need to toughen up and start accepting that the alternative of letting this virus spread and with greater widespread transmission will be far far worse than what we are currently experiencing. Its happened in South America and virus looks to be just endemic their at the moment with high death counts every day that are showing no signs of slowing down.

What do people want ? Increased mortality rates and eventually a severely restricted healthcare system that will be on the brink of collapse. Their will be no economic recovery either. Most sane people who regard their health won't be going anywhere near Indoor setting with many people unless its essential. But as long as we can go to the pub and have a few drinks its ok.

Not everything is about pubs. For some reason it ends up in every response about the impacts of lockdown though.

fits · 04-10-2020 10:27AM

We Went out for dinner last night. Our area has one of the lowest rates in the country. However being in a room with 8 other people for two hours and no windows open. I don’t think I’ll be eating out in an indoor setting like that again anytime soon. It’s an ideal environment for transmission.

Kermit.de.frog · 04-10-2020 10:33AM

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Not everything is about pubs. For some reason it ends up in every response about the impacts of lockdown though.

Because Ireland has a dysfunctional relationship with drink.

Don't allow the vintners control your life.

niallo27 · 04-10-2020 10:33AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

They make announcements of the deaths notified and denotiified in a 24 hour period. They aren't massaging the figures.

So all 8 came in on a Saturday. Sounds a bit dodgy.

kingshankly · 04-10-2020 10:35AM

Whatever about schools going back colleges should never have been let back the cases coming from students is shocking

TTLF · 04-10-2020 10:37AM

kingshankly wrote: »

Whatever about schools going back colleges should never have been let back the cases coming from students is shocking

Currently all College courses are online from what I know of?
I'm not sure if that changes from Monday however.

normanoffside · 04-10-2020 10:37AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

They make announcements of the deaths notified and denotiified in a 24 hour period. They aren't massaging the figures.

Ok then. Yesterday 8 were added and 1 denotified. Why not just add 7?

04-10-2020 10:38AM

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Just realised how much more depressing a lockdown will be with the weather today.

It will ruin so many people.

How so? I know some people suffer from SAD but given that the recommended advice (apart from medication) is to go for a walk and sit near a window etc, a lockdown like we had earlier this year isn't going to stop them from doing the same as advised every winter,

Personally days like today are made for sitting by the fire reading or watching t.v. with a couple of drinks, once any need to be done jobs are gotten out of the way.

stephenjmcd · 04-10-2020 10:40AM

JTMan wrote: »

Sunday Independent leads here (paywall) with the possibility that we will be moving to level 4.

Based purely on the opinion of a consultant in the mater.

Anyone can say I think we'll move to level 4, doesn't mean it'll happen.

Level 4 as it stands would be entirely disproportionate for large parts of the country.

Those also suggesting "circuit breakers" for 3 weeks. We all know it won't be 3 weeks so why bother suggesting it, it just won't happen, we aren't going to see large areas of the economy shutdown again

odyssey06 · 04-10-2020 10:41AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

The only meaningful statistics show the incidence of serious illness, hospitalizations, and deaths. The single most important statistic among these is the infection fatality rate (IFR). Data collected through July shows that the IFR for those under age forty-five is actually lower than that of the common flu. The covid-19 IFR rises for those over fifty, but it is hardly a death sentence. And the data does not segregate those with preexisting health issues caused by obesity, diabetes, and heart disease. If we could see data only for reasonably healthy people under fifty, the numbers would be even more reassuring.

The IFR rate for flu is meaningless in comparison to covid.
If we started testing people for flu the way we are testing for covid we would find a huge amount more cases.
They are not comparable figures anymore.

Plus the IFR rate for covid is not fixed. It is trending lower with better hospital treatments. But it could trend upwards again if hospital capacity is exceeded.
It's the profile of people requiring hospital treatment to pull through that is the key, as much if not more so than those who died even with it.

arctictree · 04-10-2020 10:43AM

I think what annoys a lot of people is that the people making the decisions are taking no personal financial hit whatsoever. And a lot of people are taking a disproportionate amount of the pain.

arctictree · 04-10-2020 10:43AM

I think what annoys a lot of people is that the people making the decisions are taking no personal financial hit whatsoever. And a lot of people are taking a disproportionate amount of the pain.

Inquitus · 04-10-2020 10:46AM

arctictree wrote: »

I think what annoys a lot of people is that the people making the decisions are taking no personal financial hit whatsoever. And a lot of people are taking a disproportionate amount of the pain.

Aye if you work in an office, and are working from home, nothing has changed except the home part. If you work in retail, hospitality etc. you are shafted. There is a clear divide there and that certainly impacts people's views on what action should be taken to contain Covid.

Drumpot · 04-10-2020 10:51AM

arctictree wrote: »

I think what annoys a lot of people is that the people making the decisions are taking no personal financial hit whatsoever. And a lot of people are taking a disproportionate amount of the pain.

Same thing happened in 2008. People who weren’t necessarily affected too bad were greatly concerned about banks once they were state owned. It was imperative that banks got back all their money from loans and mortgages and to hell with people struggling financially.

People are generally only concerned or interested in things that affect them and solutions that suit themselves.

I don’t know what’s the best strategy to take with regards to COVID but it’s very easy to spot the posts from people basically saying “this strategy doesn’t suit me and so I will post And support anything that backs up my sentiments and attack/deride anything to the contrary”.

Graces7 · 04-10-2020 11:12AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

How so? I know some people suffer from SAD but given that the recommended advice (apart from medication) is to go for a walk and sit near a window etc, a lockdown like we had earlier this year isn't going to stop them from doing the same as advised every winter,

Personally days like today are made for sitting by the fire reading or watching t.v. with a couple of drinks, once any need to be done jobs are gotten out of the way.

Agree fully and I am in permanent lockdown as my immune system is down and I get SAD.

We are more resilient than folk assume, and are not going to be "ruined" easily. I have found more community support since lockdown, done quietly and without seeking acclaim.

For us this is like an ordinary winter.

If you want to help I am sure your local community volunteer group would welcome you.

TexasTornado · 04-10-2020 11:14AM

arctictree wrote: »

I think what annoys a lot of people is that the people making the decisions are taking no personal financial hit whatsoever. And a lot of people are taking a disproportionate amount of the pain.

Doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. Much like a government balancing the book on budget day they themselves may feel no pain bt it's for the greater good.

I'm amazed many can't see this.

The_Brood · 04-10-2020 11:25AM

TexasTornado wrote: »

Doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. Much like a government balancing the book on budget day they themselves may feel no pain bt it's for the greater good.

I'm amazed many can't see this.

What you should be amazed with is the utter stupidity and hypocrisy of this criminal government. They close down much of people's lives and say it's for the "greater good," but keep schools open because "it makes kids smile." They have absolutely no interest in the "greater good" but only in protecting their political power.

04-10-2020 11:26AM

Graces7 wrote: »

Agree fully and I am in permanent lockdown as my immune system is down and I get SAD.

We are more resilient than folk assume, and are not going to be "ruined" easily. I have found more community support since lockdown, done quietly and without seeking acclaim.

For us this is like an ordinary winter.

If you want to help I am sure your local community volunteer group would welcome you.

Already do a bit with the local men's shed.

majcos · 04-10-2020 11:27AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

The only meaningful statistics show the incidence of serious illness, hospitalizations, and deaths. The single most important statistic among these is the infection fatality rate (IFR). Data collected through July shows that the IFR for those under age forty-five is actually lower than that of the common flu. The covid-19 IFR rises for those over fifty, but it is hardly a death sentence. And the data does not segregate those with preexisting health issues caused by obesity, diabetes, and heart disease. If we could see data only for reasonably healthy people under fifty, the numbers would be even more reassuring.

We don’t test or record mild and asymptomatic flu so it is difficult to know what the IFR is for influenza with current healthcare. We can compare outcomes of flu and Covid-19 by comparing hospital outcomes as those patients are tested for flu and Covid. The number of ICU admissions and deaths of the confirmed hospitalised cases of influenza is much lower than that of Covid.

There were 4554 people hospitalised with influenza in 2019/2020 season. 154 were admitted to ICU and 110 deaths. In comparison, 3617 people have been admitted to hospital with Covid, 473 people have been admitted to ICU as of 29/9 with 1549 deaths of confirmed cases.

Figures for deaths refer to both community and hospital deaths and it is likely that more influenza deaths occur in community than is recorded which makes direct comparisons difficult so even just look at ICU admission numbers which are probably more like for like in comparison as influenza cases in ICU would be tested as would Covid cases in ICU. This shows that Covid is more serious as 154/4554 (3.4%) versus 473/3617 (13.1%) of hospitalisations were admitted to ICU.

In a single day in April, there were 166 patients in ICUs in Ireland with confirmed Covid. This is more than were admitted to ICU with influenza (154) in the entire 2019/2020 season to date.

A single month is far too small a timeframe in which to compare IFR. I’m sure not everyone over forty-five/fifty would like to be discounted or labeled as old when measuring impact of an illness. Neither should everyone with underlying health condition be discounted. People with hypertension and diabetes and asthma etc. should have a reasonable expectation of having a normal life span especially in the developed world.

SleetAndSnow · 04-10-2020 11:32AM

The_Brood wrote: »

What you should be amazed with is the utter stupidity and hypocrisy of this criminal government. They close down much of people's lives and say it's for the "greater good," but keep schools open because "it makes kids smile." They have absolutely no interest in the "greater good" but only in protecting their political power.

What is currently closed though besides pubs in Dublin who can have outdoor seating? Spectators have been reallowed at matches in limited capacity, gyms are open, retails open, weekly markets are open, cinemas open, pubs /restaurants open (outside Donegal and dub), museums open, tourist paths open to go around the country. Comparing an open to school to a pretty much fully open economy doesn't really work. Schools are probably the most important thing to have open because education is probably the most important thing.

The majority of things are currently open with some changes to try and keep people safe. I don't see them as a criminal government considering most countries are currently doing the exact same aka UK, Spain, Czech Republic and the likes. It's a global problem, not a Irish government formatted problem.

I don't think people realise that we probably had 4-5k cases a day back in April which was causing the higher death rates. What we are trying to avoid is going back to that because f we let it get to that point again those high death rates will come back and then we will have a problem. It was rampant in the community, just not being picked up.

arctictree · 04-10-2020 11:33AM

I think what annoys a lot of people is that the people making the decisions are taking no personal financial hit whatsoever. And a lot of people are taking a disproportionate amount of the pain.

GooglePlus · 04-10-2020 11:34AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Based purely on the opinion of a consultant in the mater.

Anyone can say I think we'll move to level 4, doesn't mean it'll happen.

Level 4 as it stands would be entirely disproportionate for large parts of the country.

Those also suggesting "circuit breakers" for 3 weeks. We all know it won't be 3 weeks so why bother suggesting it, it just won't happen, we aren't going to see large areas of the economy shutdown again

I wouldn't write another lockdown off completely. Many are going into second lockdown and I'm sure they thought they never would, so I don't see how we'll be any different.

suicide_circus · 04-10-2020 11:37AM

arctictree wrote: »

I think what annoys a lot of people is that the people making the decisions are taking no personal financial hit whatsoever. And a lot of people are taking a disproportionate amount of the pain.

Yes you made that point an hour ago. My wife is one of the hundreds of thousands who have had an investigatory procedure cancelled twice so far, all we can do is hope there's not some unseen disease destroying her from the inside.

Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

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