Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

JDD · 30-09-2020 11:47AM

I've already clarified this too - but again, the idea would be to isolate and protect those at significant high risk (old age w/ advanced heart disease).

Will isolating those very high risk individuals prevent hospitalisations overwhelming hospitals?

I mean, I understand that the vast majority of deaths are over 70's with preexisting serious underlying issues, like heart disease.

But as I understood it, hospitalisations have far more people from the 35 and upwards age categories. And while there's likely to be more hospitalisations of people that are overweight, or have asthma, or diabetes, there's a good chunk of healthy people that are hospitalised. And anyway, half the country has asthma, diabetes or is overweight.

Isolating the very high risk may reduce deaths to close to zero. But it won't prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed. Which is literally THE WHOLE POINT of lockdowns and restrictions.

douglashyde · 30-09-2020 11:49AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Agree quokola .

Also in reply to the 2 posters, one of whom doesn't want rebuttal, you are getting it anyway !

My comment was "that we need creative and imaginative thinking to deal with CV 19 not blunt force lockdown and here are some random ideas of other things we could do - x, y, z and I'm not accept rebuttal to random thoughts" -- But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

I'm with you btw, regardless of CV19, this country needs to treat frontline staff better, garda, doctors, nurses etc and they should be paid more and treated better. Every year our hospitals are overrun - the one silver lining of CV19 is we might invest more in these areas.

The fortunate news however with CV 19 is that while case numbers are growing, CFR is decreasing for a range of reasons. Yes, our healthcare system is at the brink; but that's the case every winter. What we should be doing is investing in our health care & protecting our vulnerable. NOT shutting down economies, destroying livelihoods, neglecting all other health aliments.

Plumbthedepths · 30-09-2020 11:50AM

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Someone with your opinion of young ladies "dirty, cheap prostitutes spreading disease" has no place in a church.

Tbh she should feel at home, religion is a haven for hypocrisy.

seamus · 30-09-2020 11:52AM

robbiezero wrote: »

Why can they never give a precise answer to anything.

What is the target case number for a county of ~1.4 million people?
Do they know?

A 14-day rate of 120/100k is 115 cases average per day.

That's where Dublin was at when it moved to level 3.

Thing is, I don't think we have a "target" case number as it stands.

Our hospital system can cope with the current level of cases. We still have plenty of ICU beds.

If we were to stablise now and remain at around 300 cases/day for the whole country, we'd be able to manage long-term.

Problem is, it gives you no overhead for increases. And viruses don't grow linearly, so case growth when you start at 300 cases is much faster than if you're starting with 30.

If I had to pull a figure out of the air, I would imagine the target for Dublin is 100 cases/day before we can look at moving to Level 2, and countrywide staying under 200 cases/day. Longer term 100 cases/day for the whole country is probably where they want to be, but considering how manageable 200 is, 100 cases might be unattainable once we start mass random testing.

JP Liz V1 · 30-09-2020 11:52AM

douglashyde wrote: »

I specifically said high risk, not those with alignments - Im a diabetic and not high risk, my niece has asthma and is not high risk.

I've already clarified this too - but again, the idea would be to isolate and protect those at significant high risk (an example would be - old age w/ advanced heart disease etc etc).

I thought asthma and diabetes were at risk group

US2 · 30-09-2020 11:52AM

People will ignore this simply because of who tweets it, but it's an actual fact.

https://twitter.com/Niall_Boylan/status/1311101789350096898?s=19

Asymptomatic man falls off a roof at work and dies he is a covid death, madness!!

Jackman25 · 30-09-2020 11:53AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Tbh she should feel at home, religion is a haven for hypocrisy.

And restrictions. Religion loves restricting stuff.

JP Liz V1 · 30-09-2020 11:54AM

In regard to Cork, Gardai broke up 5 house parties last night or Monday night

UCC didn't want freshers going ahead but Students Union did so went with virtual events

Happydays2020 · 30-09-2020 11:57AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Except red doesn't mean red does it. We can go anywhere and everyone from anywhere can come here.

Traffic lights only work if there is enforcement! If I break a red light I get a fine or a court appearance.

Right now we are on a roundabout with no functioning traffic lights and it's a free for all.

Plenty of close calls and some big collisions unfortunately.

The reality (10% of normal traffic) is that there are little or no cars on your roundabout and those cars are being ultra cautious.

Boggles · 30-09-2020 11:59AM

US2 wrote: »

People will ignore this simply because of who tweets it, but it's an actual fact.

https://twitter.com/Niall_Boylan/status/1311101789350096898?s=19

Asymptomatic man falls off a roof at work and dies he is a covid death, madness!!

If we take it that on average 80 people die from different ailments & accidents per day in Ireland and we are told that 1.5%-2% of all tests are COVID positive, we will have at least 1-2 Covid deaths per day based on this theory, even without Covid being a cause of death

Jesus, did he even think about that absolute nonsense before he tweeted it?

What an absolute dribbler.

Sconsey · 30-09-2020 12:00PM

douglashyde wrote: »

I specifically said high risk, not those with alignments - Im a diabetic and not high risk, my niece has asthma and is not high risk.

I've already clarified this too - but again, the idea would be to isolate and protect those at significant high risk (an example would be - old age w/ advanced heart disease etc etc).

You are high risk according to the HSE
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/people-at-higher-risk.html#high-risk

mountgomery burns · 30-09-2020 12:01PM

I'd tend to agree with people saying "Living with Covid" doesn't mean ignoring all the risk it poses and ploughing on as before. We can't have normality until there is effective medicine to combat it.

That said, I would point out to some who are making that argument that "Living with Covid" also shouldn't mean a plan where in 3/5 stages 50,000 people can be laid off at the drop of a hat in Dublin alone. This is a crude estimate granted, but by that logic you could have 150,000-200,000 additional unemployment nationwide between level 2 and 3.

That's really not sustainable. And the way we've acted to date it looks likely we'll go further to stage 4 at some point for some areas. But does anyone actually know at what point that would be implemented?

Businesses not having a defined metric on how to know when they will be asked to close is not sustainable and puts further costs on them at a time they cannot afford it.

Granted there is plenty of uncertainty about when cases might sore in a given geographical area, but I would have thought the whole point of a plan would be we know where we stand on how and when we will react as the prevalence of the virus changes across the Country. We simply don't.

is_that_so · 30-09-2020 12:02PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

He's in a catch 22 really, question was asked about making a decision with plenty of notice, said it himself they could make one today for Sunday week but it might not be accurate when Sunday comes along but if they make the decision closer the time they can have more confidence in it.

Personally when 3 weeks was announced for Dublin I reckoned it would be around 4 or 5 based on Kildare.

Realistically though not much has changed in Dublin except in hospitality, will come down if people have reduced their contacts

This is also why the so-called circuit breakers are a real challenge to implement and sell to the public. If it's back to very strict measures it is in effect for an undefined time not a promised limit of 2 or 3 weeks.

seamus · 30-09-2020 12:03PM

US2 wrote: »

Asymptomatic man falls off a roof at work and dies he is a covid death, madness!!

This is not the case.
Covid deaths in Ireland are only counted where the death certificate lists Covid as a cause, or where the death cert has not yet been issued, where there's a strong suspicion it was covid related.

Wolf359f · 30-09-2020 12:06PM

US2 wrote: »

People will ignore this simply because of who tweets it, but it's an actual fact.

https://twitter.com/Niall_Boylan/status/1311101789350096898?s=19

Asymptomatic man falls off a roof at work and dies he is a covid death, madness!!

Well that would mean we would never have a day with zero covid deaths reported, which has happened.

Doctors are remarkable people and they can actually use their years of experience to judge what is and isn't a covid death. If they are unsure it's down as a probable until the outcome of an autopsy.

bb1234567 · 30-09-2020 12:09PM

US2 wrote: »

People will ignore this simply because of who tweets it, but it's an actual fact.

https://twitter.com/Niall_Boylan/status/1311101789350096898?s=19

Asymptomatic man falls off a roof at work and dies he is a covid death, madness!!

Deaths where there is another obvious cause of death ie.trauma are discounted as COVID deaths even if testing positive upon death, this is a WHO standard protocol adopted by every country worldwide. Anyway if this theory was in any way substantial we would have seen many more younger deaths among our statistics. 20% of deaths in the EU are in people under 65 on the average day.
Yet just 1-5% of European COVID deaths have been under 65. Care to try and explain this disparity if all COVID positive deaths are being recorded as cause of death regardless of any other factor?

I won't even start on the fact that 2% of people testing positive does not mean that 2%vof the entire country (and hence any death occurring in that time) are COVID positive at any given time. A person presenting for testing will have symptoms, or contact with a confirmed infected, so they are much more likely than the average person int he country to be positive ie. much less than 2% of the country are currently COVID despite the 2% positivity rate.

I can't believe he managed to fit so much misinformation into such a short tweet tbh. Don't know who he is but there's a good reason people don't listen to him I'd say.
Please verify your 'facts' and make sure they are more factual before spreading them.

caveat emptor · 30-09-2020 12:13PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Very interesting about airport status and how it's down 88%. Question from TD regarding airport testing. Point in time testing won't stop it. They said the plan is to wait for the EU commissions traffic light system. Start saying colours, couldn't listen afterwards :rolleyes: The dogmatic approach to open borders (during a pandemic) will bleed us dry over the medium term.

In the same way not every country could join the EU unless they got their house in order regarding finances and corruption. Free travel should be suspended until every country gets their house in order regarding covid. Effectively a hard reset would get the system up and running quicker than the current strategy which is leading to mass redundancies and pain.

caveat emptor wrote: »

Except red doesn't mean red does it. We can go anywhere and everyone from anywhere can come here.

Traffic lights only work if there is enforcement! If I break a red light I get a fine or a court appearance.

Right now we are on a roundabout with no functioning traffic lights and it's a free for all.

Plenty of close calls and some big collisions unfortunately.

Happydays2020 wrote: »

The reality (10% of normal traffic) is that there are little or no cars on your roundabout and those cars are being ultra cautious.

My point was regarding the economic viability of the travel and hospitality sectors going forward.

Running an airport at 10% capacity is not a viable business model. The thousands of families dependent on it for a livelihood are the ones who have to take the hit. Families who have mortgages etc. Every week there is a different announcement of thousand loosing jobs etc.

If we don't confront the reality we'll be bled dry over time regardless of your views on free travel. Economic casualties are mounting and will continue to mount if an effective strategy not put in place.

Telling people to go on holidays but don't leave Dublin is completely illogical.

Boggles · 30-09-2020 12:14PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Well that would mean we would never have a day with zero covid deaths reported, which has happened.

What it would mean is, based on that fúcking idiots "theory" is we would 100,000 active cases of Covid today.

Now I don't know if he is genuinely thick or is he just tweeting that shíte to rile up the absolute dribblers that revere him as some sort of authority on anything.

Maybe a combination of both, either way he is to be ignored.

Happydays2020 · 30-09-2020 12:16PM

This chap ain’t happy.

https://twitter.com/care2much18/status/1310916374760501249?s=21

caveat emptor · 30-09-2020 12:17PM

Dr Glynn to the Michael McNamara - Chair
: "Regarding your line of questioning regarding dying with covid and from covid.

Someone can be asymptomatic with covid then die of a heart attack, Covid is more than a respiratory disease, "

Seemed to shut him up quite quick.

Boggles · 30-09-2020 12:20PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Dr Glynn to the Michael McNamara - Chair
: "Regarding your line of questioning regarding dying with covid and from covid.

Someone can be asymptomatic with covid then die of a heart attack, Covid is more than a respiratory disease, "

Seemed to shut him up quite quick.

McNamara should stick to rally driving.

Santy2015 · 30-09-2020 12:20PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Dr Glynn to the Michael McNamara - Chair
: "Regarding your line of questioning regarding dying with covid and from covid.

Someone can be asymptomatic with covid then die of a heart attack, Covid is more than a respiratory disease, "

Seemed to shut him up quite quick.

How does that translate to dying of Covid or with Covid? The with Covid deaths should not be announced unless the coroner states it was a factor in the persons death.

Boggles · 30-09-2020 12:24PM

Jesus Christ, numbers increasing, 122 now in hospital, 18 in ICU.

We learned yesterday we have a massive 17 extra ICU beds and currently 40 spare, and dribblers like McNamara are still debating the died with Covid died of Covid horsé****.

No wonder NPHET couldn't be arsed showing up to this nonsense, it will be while before they come again.

Nolans face throughout said it all.

IQO · 30-09-2020 12:28PM

IQO wrote: »

Jealousy in The Netherlands about the Irish escalation framework:

https://twitter.com/YorickB/status/1310534233266556928

(use Twitter translate for translations)

Somehow this framework is gaining continued traction in The Netherlands, there were just parliamentary questions being asked if NL can create a similar framework with Ireland as example.

https://twitter.com/alexanderbakker/status/1311242063514660864

(use Twitter translate for translations)

douglashyde · 30-09-2020 12:28PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I thought asthma and diabetes were at risk group

They are. But that wasn't my original point.

In short, we need to distinguish between 'high risk' and those that the epidemiology data says is at risk of entering into hospital / ICU / death and double down efforts to protect these people.

Asthma has spectrum of severity - There are several forms of diabetes - If you have asthma and are 83 you are more likely to get ill than a 45 year old with asthma.

Age, severe asthma & heart disease and obesity are the leading indicators.

Surgical intervention needed in society, not the sledgehammer approach we're currently taking.

BringBackMick · 30-09-2020 12:28PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Dr Glynn to the Michael McNamara - Chair
: "Regarding your line of questioning regarding dying with covid and from covid.

Someone can be asymptomatic with covid then die of a heart attack, Covid is more than a respiratory disease, "

Seemed to shut him up quite quick.

Seems like classic diversion tactics really - he did not answer the question!

CalamariFritti · 30-09-2020 12:29PM

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus Christ, numbers increasing, 122 now in hospital, 18 in ICU.

We learned yesterday we have a massive 17 extra ICU beds and currently 40 spare, and dribblers like McNamara are still debating the died with Covid died of Covid horsé****.

No wonder NPHET couldn't be arsed showing up to this nonsense, it will be while before they come again.

Nolans face throughout said it all.

God forbid some unelected one dimensional technocrats who effectively rule the country atm may have to answer some questions.

is_that_so · 30-09-2020 12:32PM

BringBackMick wrote: »

Seems like classic diversion tactics really - he did not answer the question!

As we've seen during this if you go up against NPHET/DoH scientists you need more than just a bit of outrage because they will sink you for your lack of knowledge very quickly.

douglashyde · 30-09-2020 12:32PM

BringBackMick wrote: »

Seems like classic diversion tactics really - he did not answer the question!

Is he suggesting CV19 can trigger a heart attack? I know it can in rare circumstances impact the heart, but is there evidence to show that it triggers heart attacks?

BringBackMick · 30-09-2020 12:33PM

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus Christ, numbers increasing, 122 now in hospital, 18 in ICU.

We learned yesterday we have a massive 17 extra ICU beds and currently 40 spare, and dribblers like McNamara are still debating the died with Covid died of Covid horsé****.

No wonder NPHET couldn't be arsed showing up to this nonsense, it will be while before they come again.

Nolans face throughout said it all.

The fact that Nolan is tut tutting valid and legitimate questions says it all about what type of people are on NPHET.

It is typical of academics and high brows in the medical field to dismiss 'stupid' questions like this.

They think they are above the people and infact they are-. Their decisions are wreaking havoc on lifes and livlihoods across Ireland and they will never have to take the brunt of the damage they have done.

Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

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