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Onwards and Upwards: ULSTER 4 EVA

  • 20-09-2020 3:18pm
    #1
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭


    This thread in intended as a wee space to look forward for wounded Ulster supporters, one that is devoid of hysterics and hyperbole.

    Difficult end to the season. Our form was much more patchy after resuming than it had been before the summer.

    So we are left as defeated finalist in ProWhatever (and tier 1 in Europe next season as a result) and a thoroughly defeated quarter-finalist in Europe.

    So where do we stand?


Comments

  • #2
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,772 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Do we not usually stand up?

    SUFTUM


  • #3
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Do we not usually stand up?

    SUFTUM

    NOT THE POST I WANTED, BUT THE POST I NEEDED


  • #4
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,335 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    We’re decent and we’ll pull the odd big performance out of the bag.

    That’s where we stand.


  • #5
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Definitely going in the right direction but it just feels as if Ulster never actually believe they can win the big games when it comes down to it. Like Leinster last year, Glasgow last year, Leinster this year and Toulouse this year. Even today I felt if Ulster had just abit more belief they could have kept in that game for longer at the very least but again so many big errors at key moments just in last years QF cost them. I like how they are bringing through youth compared to afew years ago but they still have too many journey men that need to be gotten rid of.


  • #6
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    Definitely going in the right direction but it just feels as if Ulster never actually believe they can win the big games when it comes down to it. Like Leinster last year, Glasgow last year, Leinster this year and Toulouse this year. Even today I felt if Ulster had just abit more belief they could have kept in that game for longer at the very least but again so many big errors at key moments just in last years QF cost them. I like how they are bringing through youth compared to afew years ago but they still have too many journey men that need to be gotten rid of.

    Seems like they believed they could win in the semifinal in Edinburgh. And I definitely thought they believed they could win against Leinster last season in the QF - it was the quality of our bench that was the issue, not belief.

    They looked disheartened and tired today - I'm not sure that's an ongoing problem.


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  • #7
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Paul's Really Rather Cross List of Those Not Pulling Their Weight:

    Sam Carter
    Haven't seen much leadership, haven't seen much quality play. Have seen him give away a plentiful supply of penalties. Treadwell / David O'Connor please.

    Jordi Murphy
    An absolutely vital cog in the machine for us for a couple of seasons, but has really looked off the pace since our return. Soft, no dynamism, no presence at the breakdown. Previously he had been efficient and reliable, which was vital for us. But he's currently not a patch on Reidy or as hungry as Rea Sr.

    Jacob Stockdale
    Very lucky Baloucoune is injured. Otherwise our back three might be Balcoucoune - Ludik - Lyttle. He just didn't' seem to be trying today - he seems to want to catch opposition players rather than tackle. Ludik is "break glass in case of emergency", Gilroy seems to have gone AWOL - the reasons Stockdale's there are more to do with other options mis-firing.

    Jack McGrath
    He surely can be better. Just a couple of 7/8 out of 10 performances, Jack.

    Matt Faddes
    Is he just simply not that good?

    John Cooney seemed to be starting to right himself today - let's hope he continues getting back to what he's capable of.


  • #8
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Seems like they believed they could win in the semifinal in Edinburgh. And I definitely thought they believed they could win against Leinster last season in the QF - it was the quality of our bench that was the issue, not belief.

    They looked disheartened and tired today - I'm not sure that's an ongoing problem.


    It’s not really the same situation is it? Edinburgh while favorites don’t strike the same fear into you as the likes of Glasgow would for example. I don’t think that was the only issue though, it’s not big things that had be concerned it’s like things like for instance the A.Byrne try in last years QF and the third Toulouse try today that sum it up, just really poor moments at key times that suck up all the moment and belief that they worked so hard to create. Last year they definetly gave it a good Wally and much better than today but against stupid little things here or there that lead to big game changing moments. Thankfully we got through this season and now the provinces can start fresh in afew weeks and rebuild some of that momentum.


  • #9
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Well, you'll get no argument from me on the "stupid little things" front.


  • #10
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Paul's Really Rather Cross List of Those Not Pulling Their Weight:

    Marty Moore. Although that might be harsh. You'd need a John Deere to pull his weight.


  • #11
    ElisaAtWar
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    As a strategy kicking the ball away to a team that loves offloading was not the smartest thing I ever saw today. And yet there were moments when Ulster had a bit of similar flair about them and it was good to watch. But a game strategy of kicking a ball away to a team that runs the ball from anywhere is a criminal offense. You shut them down, you don't give them the opportunity. So you can't blame the players for an awful game strategy


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  • #12
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Marty Moore. Although that might be harsh. You'd need a John Deere to pull his weight.

    I think Moore has been pretty good for Ulster. He holds the scrum up well. Of course he isn't in the same postcode as O'Toole when it comes to dynamism, but the two of them work well together as they offer different things. Once O'Toole learns the dark arts in the scrum from Moore and others...and there are signs that he is...he could be quite a player.


  • #13
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    With apologies to the poster from whom I knicked this off of on The Other Forum - it's all his work.

    What do folk think of our squad for this coming season?

    LH Prop (5)
    Jack McGrath (30) – Contract until 2022
    Andrew Warwick (30) - Contract signed in 2020 – no confirmation beyond squad listing for 2020/21 season
    Kyle McCall (28) – No contract details online
    Eric O’Sullivan (24) – Contract signed in 2019
    Callum Reid (21) – Academy Year 2

    TH Prop (4)
    Marty Moore (29) – Contract until 2022
    Gareth Milasinovich (27) – Contact signed in 2019
    Ross Kane (25) – Contract signed in 2019
    Tom O’Toole (21) – Contract until 2022

    Hooker (5)
    Rob Herring (30) – Contract until 2021
    John Andrew (27) – Contract signed in 2020 – no confirmation beyond squad listing for 2020/21 season
    Adam McBurney (23) – No contract details online.
    Tom Stewart (19) – Academy Year 2
    James McCormick (18) – Academy Year 1

    Lock (6)
    Sam Carter (30) – ‘Multi-year deal’ signed in 2019
    Iain Henderson (28) – Central contract until 2021
    Alan O’Connor (27) – Contract signed in 2019
    David O’Connor (25) – Contract signed in 2019
    Kieran Treadwell (24) – Contract until 2021
    Cormac Izuchukwu (20) – Academy Year 1

    Backrow (10)
    Sean Reidy (31) – Contract until 2022
    Jordy Murphy (29) – Contract until 2022
    Marcell Coetzee (29) – Contract until 2022
    Matty Rea (27) – Contract until 2022
    Nick Timoney (25) – Contract signed in 2018
    Greg Jones (24) – Contract until 2021 at least - no confirmation beyond squad listing for 2020/21
    Marcus Rea (22) – Contract signed in 2019
    Azur Allison (21) – Academy Year 2
    David McCann (20) – Academy Year 2
    Reuben Crothers (18) – Academy Year 1

    Scrumhalf (5)
    Alby Matthewson (34) – Contract until 2021
    John Cooney (30) – Contract until 2022
    Dave Shanahan (25) – Contract signed in 2019
    Lewis Finlay (20) – Academy Year 1
    Nathan Doak (18) - Academy Year 1

    Outhalf (5)
    Ian Madigan (31) – Contract until 2021
    Billy Burns (26) – Contract until 2022
    Bill Johnston (23) – Contract signed in 2019
    Michael Lowry (22) – Contract signed in 2019
    Bruce Houston (21) – Academy Year 3

    Centre (7)
    Luke Marshall (29) – Contract until 2021
    Stuart McCloskey (28) – Contract until 2022
    Angus Curtis (22) - Contract until 2021
    James Hume (22)- Contract until 2022 (signed in 2019 and referred to ‘three years’)
    Stewart Moore (21) – Contract until 2023
    Hayden Hyde (20) – Academy Year 1
    Ben Carson (18) – Academy Year 1

    Back Three (10)
    Louis Ludik (33) – Contract until 2021
    Craig Gilroy (29) – Contract until 2021
    Will Addison (28) – Contract until 2022
    Matt Faddes (28) – Contract signed in 2019
    Jacob Stockdale (24) – Contract until 2023
    Rob Lyttle (23) – Contract until 2023
    Robert Baloucoune (23) – Development contract signed in 2019
    Aaron Sexton (20) – Academy Year 2
    Ethan McIlroy (20) – Academy Year 1
    Conor Rankin (19) – Academy Year 2


  • #14
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Breakdown:

    SENIOR PLAYERS

    Ulstermen Born and Bred: 17
    Andrew Warwick, Kyle McCall, Ross Kane, John Andrew, Adam McBurney, Iain Henderson, Matty Rea, Marcus Rea, Michael Lowry, Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, James Hume, Stewart Moore, Craig Gilroy, Jacob Stockdale, Rob Lyttle, Robert Baloucoune

    Embraced the Ulster Way During Those Tough Teenage Years: 1
    Tom O'Toole

    Ulster By The Grace of the Academy: 6
    Eric O'Sullivan, Alan O’Connor, David O’Connor, Nick Timoney, Greg Jones, Dave Shanahan

    Ulster Stock: 3
    Gareth Milasinovich (who?), Angus Curtis (also attended the One True Academy), Will Addison

    Children of the Irish Diaspora: 2
    Kieran Treadwell, Billy Burns

    Children of a Lesser Province: 4
    Jack McGrath, Jordi Murphy, John Cooney; Bill Johnston

    Prodigal Irish Sons: 2
    Marty Moore, Ian Madigan

    Foreigners Deemed Worthy of the Red Hand: 3
    Rob Herring, Sean Reidy, Louis Ludik

    STRANGER DANGER: 4
    Carter, Coetzee, Mathewson, Faddes


    ACADEMY PLAYERS

    Ulster Born and Bred: 13
    Callum Reid, Tom Stewart, James McCormick, Azur Allison, David McCann, Reuben Crothers, Lewis Finlay, Nathan Doak, Bruce Houston, Ben Carson, Aaron Sexton, Ethan McIlroy, Conor Rankin

    Child of the Irish Diaspora: 1
    Hayden Hyde

    Prodigal Irish Sons: 1
    Cormac Izuchukwu


  • #15
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,335 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    With apologies to the poster from whom I knicked this off of on The Other Forum - it's all his work.

    What do folk think of our squad for this coming season?

    LH Prop (5)
    Jack McGrath (30) – Contract until 2022
    Andrew Warwick (30) - Contract signed in 2020 – no confirmation beyond squad listing for 2020/21 season
    Kyle McCall (28) – No contract details online
    Eric O’Sullivan (24) – Contract signed in 2019
    Callum Reid (21) – Academy Year 2

    TH Prop (4)
    Marty Moore (29) – Contract until 2022
    Gareth Milasinovich (27) – Contact signed in 2019
    Ross Kane (25) – Contract signed in 2019
    Tom O’Toole (21) – Contract until 2022

    Hooker (5)
    Rob Herring (30) – Contract until 2021
    John Andrew (27) – Contract signed in 2020 – no confirmation beyond squad listing for 2020/21 season
    Adam McBurney (23) – No contract details online.
    Tom Stewart (19) – Academy Year 2
    James McCormick (18) – Academy Year 1

    Lock (6)
    Sam Carter (30) – ‘Multi-year deal’ signed in 2019
    Iain Henderson (28) – Central contract until 2021
    Alan O’Connor (27) – Contract signed in 2019
    David O’Connor (25) – Contract signed in 2019
    Kieran Treadwell (24) – Contract until 2021
    Cormac Izuchukwu (20) – Academy Year 1

    Backrow (10)
    Sean Reidy (31) – Contract until 2022
    Jordy Murphy (29) – Contract until 2022
    Marcell Coetzee (29) – Contract until 2022
    Matty Rea (27) – Contract until 2022
    Nick Timoney (25) – Contract signed in 2018
    Greg Jones (24) – Contract until 2021 at least - no confirmation beyond squad listing for 2020/21
    Marcus Rea (22) – Contract signed in 2019
    Azur Allison (21) – Academy Year 2
    David McCann (20) – Academy Year 2
    Reuben Crothers (18) – Academy Year 1

    Scrumhalf (5)
    Alby Matthewson (34) – Contract until 2021
    John Cooney (30) – Contract until 2022
    Dave Shanahan (25) – Contract signed in 2019
    Lewis Finlay (20) – Academy Year 1
    Nathan Doak (18) - Academy Year 1

    Outhalf (5)
    Ian Madigan (31) – Contract until 2021
    Billy Burns (26) – Contract until 2022
    Bill Johnston (23) – Contract signed in 2019
    Michael Lowry (22) – Contract signed in 2019
    Bruce Houston (21) – Academy Year 3

    Centre (7)
    Luke Marshall (29) – Contract until 2021
    Stuart McCloskey (28) – Contract until 2022
    Angus Curtis (22) - Contract until 2021
    James Hume (22)- Contract until 2022 (signed in 2019 and referred to ‘three years’)
    Stewart Moore (21) – Contract until 2023
    Hayden Hyde (20) – Academy Year 1
    Ben Carson (18) – Academy Year 1

    Back Three (10)
    Louis Ludik (33) – Contract until 2021
    Craig Gilroy (29) – Contract until 2021
    Will Addison (28) – Contract until 2022
    Matt Faddes (28) – Contract signed in 2019
    Jacob Stockdale (24) – Contract until 2023
    Rob Lyttle (23) – Contract until 2023
    Robert Baloucoune (23) – Development contract signed in 2019
    Aaron Sexton (20) – Academy Year 2
    Ethan McIlroy (20) – Academy Year 1
    Conor Rankin (19) – Academy Year 2

    Line through the ones I suspect are just seeing out their days at Ulster. I think Ross Kane and Rea Snr are teetering on the brink too.


  • #16
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Agreed on all except Curtis, who has been plagued by injury. If he can stop being broken, he could play a very important role for us as a second distributor. He's a strong, talented player.

    Not massively sure on Bill Johnston - he has been a useful bench player, but he must have had his head in his hands watching Lowry on Sunday.


  • #17
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    awec wrote: »
    Line through the ones I suspect are just seeing out their days at Ulster. I think Ross Kane and Rea Snr are teetering on the brink too.

    Probably another year of Shanahan to be honest, just purely for depth as Doak's too young if something was to happen to any of Cooney/Mathewson/Finlay and he ends up as 3rd choice.


  • #18
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Well, we haven't even seen Finlay feature for the seniors, so I'd say definitely. Also depending on whether we can extend Alby's contract by one year.

    Had forgotten Houston has earned a senior cap.


  • #19
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,335 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Agreed on all except Curtis, who has been plagued by injury. If he can stop being broken, he could play a very important role for us as a second distributor. He's a strong, talented player.

    Not massively sure on Bill Johnston - he has been a useful bench player, but he must have had his head in his hands watching Lowry on Sunday.

    Yea I think Bill Johnston is going to end up struggling.


  • #20
    Utah_Saint
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    awec wrote: »
    Yea I think Bill Johnston is going to end up struggling.

    I actually forgot we had him. Is he injured?


  • #21
    ionadnapokot
    Registered Users Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    With apologies to the poster from whom I knicked this off of on The Other Forum - it's all his work.

    What do folk think of our squad for this coming season?


    Outhalf (5)
    Ian Madigan (31) – Contract until 2021
    Billy Burns (26) – Contract until 2022
    Bill Johnston (23) – Contract signed in 2019
    Michael Lowry (22) – Contract signed in 2019
    Bruce Houston (21) – Academy Year 3


    Back Three (10)
    Louis Ludik (33) – Contract until 2021
    Craig Gilroy (29) – Contract until 2021
    Will Addison (28) – Contract until 2022
    Matt Faddes (28) – Contract signed in 2019
    Jacob Stockdale (24) – Contract until 2023
    Rob Lyttle (23) – Contract until 2023
    Robert Baloucoune (23) – Development contract signed in 2019
    Aaron Sexton (20) – Academy Year 2
    Ethan McIlroy (20) – Academy Year 1
    Conor Rankin (19) – Academy Year 2

    Lowry played decent at wkend
    I think he should be the left at FB. He could offer so much more coming from FB rather than been in the line at 10.
    The comparison is obvious but he really has all the attributes to play a McKenzie role for Ulster and Ireland.
    I hope he gets a start at FB v Georgia
    https://www.the42.ie/michael-lowry-ulster-analysis-5211614-Sep2020/


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  • #22
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Utah_Saint wrote: »
    I actually forgot we had him. Is he injured?

    Nope, just Madigan preferred.

    But at the same time, we had five games away from home - three knock-out games and two inter-pros. That he didn't feature during that run is no real slight.


  • #23
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    I just have one question. Who t.f. is EVA? Has Ethel hung up her tea trolley?


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