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Appeal penalty points

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  • 20-09-2020 10:44am
    #1
    Chloewoody
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭


    Hi,
    I’m looking fo advice on appealing penalty points. I was stopped at a checkpoint on a learner permit with no accompanying driver.
    Single mother with 3 kids 5 and under. My oldest son cut his finger very badly the other night, I could see bone! Just the night that was in it I had only one person available to watch my kids. So I rushed my son to A&E.
    We met the checkpoint on the way home 12.30 am.
    I explained my situation, he saw my son in the back in a sling. Had paperwork from A&E I was honest, had L plates displayed. The Guard told me that if it wasn’t for my situation he was going to seize my car but told me he would issue me an €80 fine and 2 penalty points.
    I looked on the Garda website and found the forms and requirements for appealing the penalty points.
    “Exceptional circumstances” is listed and under that is “medical emergency”
    I’m looking for advice on what I can say or do to get it appealed.
    I plan on filling out the form, attaching some documents from a&E and explaining the situation and (hopefully) having a full license by then as I have my test in 10 days.

    Just to add- my son ended up having bad nerve damage and needed surgery yesterday and while it means nothing here I also have a full American license as I moved home from the states almost 2 years ago. If I was thinking straight that night I should’ve given him the American license and hoped for the best!
    I know I broke the law, I just feel like given the situation a warning would’ve been more appropriate.


Comments

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    #2
    Xterminator
    Registered Users Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    souds to me like an appeal simply wont work on the grounds you are guilty. you could ask for the points to be cancelled - that allows discretion.

    Cancelling Penalty Points
    A driver may seek to have the fixed charge notice cancelled if there were exceptional circumstances relating to the case i.e. before the fine is paid - information about this process can be found at www.garda.ie www.garda.ie under Cancelling Fixed Charge Notices.

    Appeal Penalty Points
    Drivers are issued a Fixed Charge Notice in the case of a penalty points offence. A driver can opt to pay the fine and accept the penalty points or can go to Court and have the matter decided upon in Court.
    On payment of a fixed charge notice or on foot of a Court decision the penalty points are applied to the licence record of the driver concerned and remain on the record for three years. An appeal against a court decision can be lodged within 14 days of the decision with the Courts. The Road Safety Authority has no power to remove penalty points and can only do so on the direction of a Court or An Garda Síochána.


  • Options
    #3
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Xterminator wrote: »
    souds to me like an appeal simply wont work on the grounds you are guilty. you could ask for the points to be cancelled - that allows discretion.

    Cancelling Penalty Points
    A driver may seek to have the fixed charge notice cancelled if there were exceptional circumstances relating to the case i.e. before the fine is paid - information about this process can be found at www.garda.ie www.garda.ie under Cancelling Fixed Charge Notices.

    Appeal Penalty Points
    Drivers are issued a Fixed Charge Notice in the case of a penalty points offence. A driver can opt to pay the fine and accept the penalty points or can go to Court and have the matter decided upon in Court.
    On payment of a fixed charge notice or on foot of a Court decision the penalty points are applied to the licence record of the driver concerned and remain on the record for three years. An appeal against a court decision can be lodged within 14 days of the decision with the Courts. The Road Safety Authority has no power to remove penalty points and can only do so on the direction of a Court or An Garda Síochána.

    Its a strange one OK, pre-Covid -19, thousands of American ( and other ) tourist's drove on Irish Roads, and on American or other Country licence's too, without any problem.


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    #4
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    You could claim emergency on the way to the hospital, not otw home. Could have got a taxi back, no rush once he's triaged and patched up.

    Dont see you winning here.


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    #5
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Sounds like the guard used his discretion well - he didn't want to interfere with you getting your son to the hospital for medical attention.

    On the other hand, he probably took the view that night was far from the first time you've broken that law, just that that time you happened to get caught. Would he have been right ? If so, it seems like you should just take the fine and penalty points. Not sure why you would feel aggrieved by it if that's the case.


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    #6
    Oscar Madison
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Oscar Madison


    It seems a little harsh to me but maybe due to the circumstances

    that you have outlined, if you do appeal you might get some sympathy from a judge?


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  • Options
    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You got away with not having your car taken.

    You were never going to get away scott free.

    Take the penalty and make getting your licence a priority.

    Appeal it and you are more likely to be given a further penalty


  • Options
    #8
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    you may be lucky but I'd agree that "on the way home" is not a medical emergency.


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    #9
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    Complete the appeal paper work and send it off.
    To be fair its a pretty good case for having it cancelled.

    Yes the garda could have seized the car but to be fair this is an exceptional case and there are fair grounds to appeal. Just say the same thing as you said to the garda and hopefully the Superintendent will agree.

    Failing that I'd take my chances in court anyway and appeal based on the same exceptional case
    you may be lucky but I'd agree that "on the way home" is not a medical emergency.
    She had to get from the hospital back home obviously enough


  • Options
    #10
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    jmreire wrote: »
    Its a strange one OK, pre-Covid -19, thousands of American ( and other ) tourist's drove on Irish Roads, and on American or other Country licence's too, without any problem.

    Which is allowed under mutual recognition of licences, there are thousands of Irish driving in the US on our licences. If they had a learners permit they wouldn't be driving alone in their own country never mind here.
    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    Complete the appeal paper work and send it off.
    To be fair its a pretty good case for having it cancelled.

    Yes the garda could have seized the car but to be fair this is an exceptional case and there are fair grounds to appeal. Just say the same thing as you said to the garda and hopefully the Superintendent will agree.

    Failing that I'd take my chances in court anyway and appeal based on the same exceptional case


    She had to get from the hospital back home obviously enough

    5 points if the OP looses the appeal which is highly likely as there was no medical emergency to get home the "emergency" was getting there which for a cut finger is not that big of an issue if you know 1st aid.

    With learners/newly qualified drivers only allowed 6 points before being banned along with the massive insurance loading for a new driver with 5 points it's not worth the risk to appeal.


  • Options
    #11
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,651 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Once you take up a learner permit any foreign licences you hold cannot be used


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    #12
    Chloewoody
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Chloewoody


    I do understand that, I’m going to take my chances and file the paperwork for a cancellation.
    Isambard wrote: »
    you may be lucky but I'd agree that "on the way home" is not a medical emergency.


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    #13
    Chloewoody
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Chloewoody


    I’d be terrified to go to court and get double the fine and double the points! I’m going to send off the paperwork and just pray that they have a bit of understanding.
    I’ve never been in trouble before and it’s just stressing me out!! My test is in 10 days so hoping I can get that full Licence before I send off the forms.
    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    Complete the appeal paper work and send it off.
    To be fair its a pretty good case for having it cancelled.

    Yes the garda could have seized the car but to be fair this is an exceptional case and there are fair grounds to appeal. Just say the same thing as you said to the garda and hopefully the Superintendent will agree.

    Failing that I'd take my chances in court anyway and appeal based on the same exceptional case


    She had to get from the hospital back home obviously enough


  • Options
    #14
    Chloewoody
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Chloewoody


    I won’t go to court and risk double the fine and double the points, but I will file the paperwork for a cancellation of the points. It’s worth a shot.

    I did as much first aid as I could but since I could see his bone through the gash I figured that it was an “emergency”. It was also emergency enough for him to require surgery to repair his severed nerves. Wasn’t rushing to A&E for a paper cut.

    Del2005 wrote: »
    Which is allowed under mutual recognition of licences, there are thousands of Irish driving in the US on our licences. If they had a learners permit they wouldn't be driving alone in their own country never mind here.



    5 points if the OP looses the appeal which is highly likely as there was no medical emergency to get home the "emergency" was getting there which for a cut finger is not that big of an issue if you know 1st aid.

    With learners/newly qualified drivers only allowed 6 points before being banned along with the massive insurance loading for a new driver with 5 points it's not worth the risk to appeal.


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    #15
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,404 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    While I feel for you I agree thats its not likely for an appeal to be successful. Not doubting your emergency and I hope your kid is ok but if it was this easy to get off then everyone would have a big old sob story handy.


  • Options
    #16
    Chloewoody
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Chloewoody


    Thank you he’s good now! Kids are tougher than we are! I’m going to try to get a cancellation, I’m not going to appeal in court - I can’t risk double fine and double points. I can’t wait to get this test done - 3 kids on a learner permit is so hard!
    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    While I feel for you I agree thats its not likely for an appeal to be successful. Not doubting your emergency and I hope your kid is ok but if it was this easy to get off then everyone would have a big old sob story handy.


  • Options
    #17
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    Cancelling Penalty Points
    A driver may seek to have the fixed charge notice cancelled if there were exceptional circumstances relating to the case i.e. before the fine is paid - information about this process can be found at www.garda.ie www.garda.ie under Cancelling Fixed Charge Notices.

    Appeal Penalty Points
    Drivers are issued a Fixed Charge Notice in the case of a penalty points offence. A driver can opt to pay the fine and accept the penalty points or can go to Court and have the matter decided upon in Court.
    On payment of a fixed charge notice or on foot of a Court decision the penalty points are applied to the licence record of the driver concerned and remain on the record for three years. An appeal against a court decision can be lodged within 14 days of the decision with the Courts. The Road Safety Authority has no power to remove penalty points and can only do so on the direction of a Court or An Garda Síochán


  • Options
    #18
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Chloewoody wrote: »
    I won’t go to court and risk double the fine and double the points, but I will file the paperwork for a cancellation of the points. It’s worth a shot.

    I did as much first aid as I could but since I could see his bone through the gash I figured that it was an “emergency”. It was also emergency enough for him to require surgery to repair his severed nerves. Wasn’t rushing to A&E for a paper cut.

    You are right about going to the hospital was an emergency and if you'd been stopped on the way you'd have a valid reason to appeal/quash the points. Unfortunately getting home wasn't an emergency and that was when you where stopped.


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