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Navan to Drogheda & local transport infrastructure

  • 29-08-2020 7:57am
    #1
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,535 ✭✭✭✭


    lucernarian wrote: »
    If that's the case then this thread's topic won't go anywhere. But again you're mistakenly considering that Drogheda - Duleek - Navan isn't a viable source of journeys in and of itself. Why is this? The population catchment it serves has the guts of 100,000 people and the existing bus service is appalling. The point isn't at all about bringing to people to Dublin any more than a line from Adare to Limerick would.

    Just a small point.

    The local bus service between Navan/Duleek and Drogheda is hardly "appalling".

    The 190 operates hourly between Trim, Navan, Slane and Drogheda seven days a week, and the 105 links Ashbourne, Kentstown, Duleek with Drogheda also on an hourly basis seven days a week.


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  • #2
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Just a small point.

    The local bus service between Navan/Duleek and Drogheda is hardly "appalling".

    The 190 operates hourly between Trim, Navan, Slane and Drogheda seven days a week, and the 105 links Ashbourne, Kentstown, Duleek with Drogheda also on an hourly basis seven days a week.

    Pity it terminates nearly a mile from the railway station. Drogheda’s bus station and railway station are far from being integrated transport nodes.


  • #3
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,535 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Lord Glentoran wrote: »
    Pity it terminates nearly a mile from the railway station. Drogheda’s bus station and railway station are far from being integrated transport nodes.

    I really don't want to digress from this thread topic, I just wanted to correct the notion that the bus service into Drogheda from those locations was "appalling" as suggested.

    The 105 and 190 do exactly what that poster was referring to, they facilitate local traffic into Drogheda town, terminating close to the town centre (and the 190 serves the Hospital too).

    Without digressing from the topic too much, let's be honest, due to history and the need to cross the Boyne at a height, Drogheda railway station is not centrally located, while the bus station is. The bus station is where it really needs to be, given that the vast majority of traffic is town generated.

    For the record the local town PSO bus service in Drogheda is due to expand shortly with additional routes added, two of which will be north/south, and which will link the railway station and the town centre every 15 minutes.


  • #4
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Just a small point.

    The local bus service between Navan/Duleek and Drogheda is hardly "appalling".

    The 190 operates hourly between Trim, Navan, Slane and Drogheda seven days a week, and the 105 links Ashbourne, Kentstown, Duleek with Drogheda also on an hourly basis seven days a week.

    Don't know if you ever took it, but I have... The journey times are quite poor for the distance traveled and wait times/reliability are a big issue towards the ends of the route. For its size and proximity, I don't think hourly unpredictable journeys from Duleek to Drogheda are remotely adequate. Though appalling is probably overkill to say. Anyway I won't digress further.


  • #5
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    lucernarian wrote: »
    Don't know if you ever took it, but I have... The journey times are quite poor for the distance traveled and wait times/reliability are a big issue towards the ends of the route. For its size and proximity, I don't think hourly unpredictable journeys from Duleek to Drogheda are remotely adequate. Though appalling is probably overkill to say. Anyway I won't digress further.

    Indeed. Buses are rarely the cure all especially when frequency, cost, and journey times of bus services actually drive car use outside the too young and too incapacitated to drive.


  • #6
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A rail offering would be hourly at best and not to Drogheda town centre. For onward passengers by rail, the trains are conventionally at capacity at the moment anyway.

    It would not be competitive to Dublin city centre with coaches from Navan; and Duleek on its own would not justify the considerable expense involved.


    Just because you may personally benefit from a rail service does not mean it makes any sense for the state to fund it. This is often not understood on this forum!


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  • #7
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    L1011 wrote: »
    A rail offering would be hourly at best and not to Drogheda town centre. For onward passengers by rail, the trains are conventionally at capacity at the moment anyway.

    It would not be competitive to Dublin city centre with coaches from Navan; and Duleek on its own would not justify the considerable expense involved.


    Just because you may personally benefit from a rail service does not mean it makes any sense for the state to fund it. This is often not understood on this forum!

    70-90 minutes from Navan, vs 30 mins from Drogheda. Pity the people who brought houses in Navan on a bait and switch basis thinking they were getting a railway service “soon”.


  • #8
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    L1011 wrote: »
    A rail offering would be hourly at best and not to Drogheda town centre. For onward passengers by rail, the trains are conventionally at capacity at the moment anyway.

    It would not be competitive to Dublin city centre with coaches from Navan; and Duleek on its own would not justify the considerable expense involved.


    Just because you may personally benefit from a rail service does not mean it makes any sense for the state to fund it. This is often not understood on this forum!
    Is that addressed to me? It's of no personal benefit and don't live anywhere near there, just the costs of opening an operational rail line to passengers is really on the low side. And Limerick to Foynrs isn't even that. If there's no argument for Navan to Drogheda then there's certainly none for Limerick to Foynes. And trains would be extremely competitive compared to the 190 bus. Not sure that Adare to Limerick would be especially after the N/M21 is built.


  • #9
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,535 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Lord Glentoran wrote: »
    70-90 minutes from Navan, vs 30 mins from Drogheda. Pity the people who brought houses in Navan on a bait and switch basis thinking they were getting a railway service “soon”.

    A bit selective there in your Drogheda journey times.

    The Enterprise is 35-40 minutes, but none of them are suitable for anyone who needs to be in work in Dublin before 09:00 or who finishes between 17:00 and roughly 18:40.

    The normal peak journey time between Drogheda and Dublin Connolly by commuter train is 60 minutes, which is a more appropriate comparison.

    There is obviously a difference, but it nowhere near as big a gap as your original post suggested.


  • #10
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Regardless what line it goes on capacity is going to be a serious issue. We also need to factor in that by the time a Navan service is built both the Northern and Sligo lines will be completely different from what they are today. As things stand DART expansion plans will effect capacity on both lines especially longer distance trains.

    Maynooth line is going to have deal more obstacles than the Northern line going forward. Getting in and out of Connolly is major problem currently, Glasnevin will see an increase from Kildare line services and both Maynooth and M3 will have doubled their current capacity and presumably Sligo/Longford will see a couple more services as well. On top of all that quad tracking the line is severely limited for the best part. Spencer Dock will only appeal to people travelling there.

    Northern line has a better chance of reducing capacity. Quad tracking is a more realistic possibility here or passing loops at the very least and Dart expansion should see Malahide been freed from terminating Darts. With the right infrastructure in place Non stop Drogheda - Connolly should be 20 mins. Navan with limited stops should be done in an hour.


  • #11
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Can we please change the title to the Drogheda bus thread so I can stop clicking on it hoping for news on Limerick trains

    Mod: New thread created.


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  • #12
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Can we please change the title to the Drogheda bus thread so I can stop clicking on it hoping for news on Limerick trains

    Mod: New thread created.

    Right. Can we now talk about the con job perpetrated on buyers of houses in Navan for years, dangling a rail service that the NTA does not appear to want them to have?


  • #13
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Lord Glentoran wrote: »
    Right. Can we now talk about the con job perpetrated on buyers of houses in Navan for years, dangling a rail service that the NTA does not appear to want them to have?

    How many times does it need to be said that it is not the NTA who decide what is and isn't built in this country.


  • #14
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    It is also pertinent that a large town like Navan can have several bus stops to allow people get the coach at their nearest location, but a train would force all users to the single station.


  • #15
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,328 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    It is also pertinent that a large town like Navan can have several bus stops to allow people get the coach at their nearest location, but a train would force all users to the single station.

    The buses can feed the train station. The train should be quicker.


  • #16
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    It is also pertinent that a large town like Navan can have several bus stops to allow people get the coach at their nearest location, but a train would force all users to the single station.

    Many other examples such as Drogheda, Portlaoise, Naas, Newbridge, to name a few, where people choose to go out of there way to get the train instead. In fact Navan station is more central than most of them places and its purposed to have 3.


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