Minister for Agriculture attends 81-person golf event in breach of health guidelines

Hawthorn Tree · 24-08-2020 01:55PM

seamus wrote: »

Assuming that the hotel were compliant, is not good enough.

If one thing has been clear throughout this, it's that everyone has a responsibility to ensure that THEY personally are compliant, and if they are not happy with a situation, to remove themselves from it. To not assume that compliance is someone else's problem.

It's not good enough to say, "My employer said they were compliant", "The hotel said they were compliant", "the shop said they were compliant", "my mammy said we were being compliant".

If someone organises a 50-person house party, it is not just their fault when fifty people turn up; all fifty of those people are equally in breach and equally at fault.

Likewise everyone who turned up at that dinner and said, "It's grand, the hotel said they were compliant", is at fault. This is a pandemic. Responsibility for your safety cannot be delegated to someone else.

This is not "cancel culture". This is a country that is sick to the back teeth of corruption, cronyism and cute hoorism. The same kind of corrupt "I'll do what I want" crap that made Barry Cowen think he could drive without a licence and evade a Garda checkpoint. The same kind of arrogant cute hoor crap that made Phil Hogan think, "Tis grand, none of the quarantine rules apply to me, and I'm allowed to use my phone while driving because I'll be grand".

And the same kind of stuff that led 81 people to attend a golf dinner thinking, "The compliance rules don't really apply to us, we're all important people."

Irish people are sick of it, the party leaderships have clearly realised this, but it seems to be taking some time for career politicians to accept it.

Great post.

The hotel were somehow still were operating under the old rules for events (max 50 including staff) where there should be separate entrances and toilet facilities. They failed utterly under the old rules.

The new rules stated that no events could take place except weddings. The 81 people completely ignored the new restrictions. The entire event was in breach of the restrictions whether there were 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 100 people.

blackwhite · 24-08-2020 02:02PM

maestroamado wrote: »

Enda Kenny played golf, expressed his unhappiness with dinner arrangement and went home for dinner.
Can we please ask him to lead our country and get rid of the other eejits until we can organize an election.
The fact that Kenny flagged it makes the whole thing worst in my opinion...

Kenny and Hogan are, or were at least, supposedly close allies. Hard to believe that Hogan wasn’t aware of Kenny’s reason for skipping the dinner - which puts the lie to his claims that he wasn’t aware it would breach the regulations.

joseywhales · 24-08-2020 02:08PM

McMurphy wrote: »

Relax Josey, it was tonhue in cheek fcs.

I already stated an "IF" in the post, I said IF irrefutable evidence comes to light that either Martin or Varadkar were in full knowledge of the event due to, and then going ahead despite knowing full well that it violated regulations, they drew up, and did not even attempt to prevent/stop it, then they need to be held to account also.

The buck doesn't stop with them?

I prefer your now more detailed condition, before I believe you stated that they would be responsible if they were well aware of the event. I am pointing out that knowing of the event and being aware that it would break restrictions are two different things, those that attended but did not leave, have no such defense.

In fact the reason that I choose to focus on leo before was because the Taoiseach did have at least some knowledge of the event, given that he sponsored a prize for it. I did not want to have to debate that this does not mean he had full and detailed knowledge in vain. Since you argued for both, it was easier to defend Leo.

I am not so ridiculous to suggest that they did not know of the event even, I will go further than you and suggest that they must have been aware(they are too experienced not too). I will give them the benefit of doubt though, that they gave the benefit of doubt to organizers. Until there is evidence that they knew that restrictions would be broken, there is no foul here. And how would they survive politically if they spent their time constantly micro managing every event of supposedly senior and thus responsible politicians?

McMurphy · 24-08-2020 02:13PM

joseywhales wrote: »

I prefer your now more detailed condition, before I believe you stated that they would be responsible if they were well aware of the event. I am pointing out that knowing of the event and being aware that it would break restrictions are two different things, those that attended but did not leave, have no such defense.

In fact the reason that I choose to focus on leo before was because the Taoiseach did have at least some knowledge of the event, given that he sponsored a prize for it. I did not want to have to debate that this does not mean he had full and detailed knowledge in vain. Since you argued for both, it was easier to defend Leo.

I am not so ridiculous to suggest that they did not know of the event even, I will go further than you and suggest that they must have been aware(they are too experienced not too). I will give them the benefit of doubt though, that they gave the benefit of doubt to organizers. Until there is evidence that they knew that restrictions would be broken, there is no foul here. And how would they survive politically if they spent their time constantly micro managing every event of supposedly senior and thus responsible politicians?

It's not "more detailed" - you obviously didn't read the original posts you replied to.

McMurphy wrote: »

If proven Michaél/Leo were well aware of the planned event going ahead despite being in breach of regulations, it isn't their job to police it and prevent it from happening, it is the job of AGS whom also have appear to have been in attendance.

Neither will be able to wash their hands of it if it emerges without doubt they were aware and did nothing including notifying AGS. That's why Calleary had to go, others too.

McMurphy wrote: »

You said it wasn't their job to police things - I never said it was - we do however have a police force in the state who's job actually is to police things.

The get together broke regulations that had been in place for weeks, Leo and Michaél may or may not have known about the get together, I'm sure indisputable evidence will emerge either way on this. However, you correctly point out, even if they did is not their job to police things.

Thankfully they have public servants to do these things on their behalf.

joseywhales · 24-08-2020 02:17PM

Ok, if your definition of "aware of" and "known about" includes having details of numbers at the event, how they would be seated and whether they came from counties under temporary restriction, then I agree with you.

I personally believe that "in full knowledge of" is a more detailed understanding than "aware of"

stockshares · 24-08-2020 02:20PM

Noel Grealish refuses to resign. The arrogance in this is unbelievable.
https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1297877710874849280?s=19

ChikiChiki · 24-08-2020 02:20PM

Liveline is a tough listen. People in real distress. One woman on now who lost her father on Wednesday morning from Covid.

stockshares · 24-08-2020 02:23PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Liveline is a tough listen. People in real distress. One woman on now who lost her father on Wednesday morning from Covid.

Yes it is and these stories could be repeated thousands of times.

Imagine being in the same position. You can't even say goodbye. Then you must sit there and take it as the crowd in Galway do what they want.

Then you have to listen to the excuses and soundbites and pre prepared statements written by public relations gurus who presume you are stupid and will swallow it.

drunkmonkey · 24-08-2020 02:25PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Liveline is a tough listen. People in real distress. One woman on now who lost her father on Wednesday morning from Covid.

A lot of people are raging about the funerals, my mother in law a staunch FF supporter was crying calling them bastard's about the golf gate the other night, she buried her brother a few weeks ago and had the job of picking who could and couldn't go into the church. They've no understanding of the hatred out there for them.

24-08-2020 02:28PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Liveline is a tough listen. People in real distress. One woman on now who lost her father on Wednesday morning from Covid.

Covid is indeed a terrible tragedy for thousands of people, but broadcasters desperately trying to link their pain to the Golf dinner in Clifden is just gutter journalism. Phil Hogan broke the rules but no, he doesn't need to apologise to grieving families for their covid related loss.

Plumbthedepths · 24-08-2020 02:29PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Covid is indeed a terrible tragedy for thousands of people, but broadcasters desperately trying to link their pain to the Golf dinner in Clifden is just gutter journalism. Phil Hogan broke the rules but no, he doesn't need to apologise to grieving families for their covid related loss.

Well done on ignoring the connection.

Edgware · 24-08-2020 02:29PM

boomshakalaka wrote: »

I disagree. It's, at absolute minimum, questionable when considering the Journalistic code of conduct.

https://accountablejournalism.org/ethics-codes/irelands-national-union-of-journalists-code-of-conduct

Personally I think it's downright unethical

Of course journalists are such paragon of virtue and honesty they should be placed on a pedestal where they can judge us all

drunkmonkey · 24-08-2020 02:33PM

Some people taking it to the extreme not visiting their parents.

McMurphy · 24-08-2020 02:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Covid is indeed a terrible tragedy for thousands of people, but broadcasters desperately trying to link their pain to the Golf dinner in Clifden is just gutter journalism. Phil Hogan broke the rules but no, he doesn't need to apologise to grieving families for their covid related loss.

This isn't the Phil Hogan thread, my guess is people are angry at legislators attending a great big hooley which flouted many regulations put in place by themselves (including cabinet minister and a supreme judge) to try and combat covid19, including numbers of people at indoor events, and localised lockdowns, which they didn't appear to think applied to them.

Puts the "we're all in this together" bullsh1t into perspective.

As for Phil Hogan, he's just an arrogant gombeen who seems to have waltzed into, then through the island like he owned the place, breaking numerous regulations and laws, then phucked off back to Brussels when the sh1t hit the fan.

BENDYBINN · 24-08-2020 02:38PM

Good boy Enda positioning himself nicely in today’s Indo.

Sure you’d never know when a big job in Europe would become vacant!!

ChikiChiki · 24-08-2020 02:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Covid is indeed a terrible tragedy for thousands of people, but broadcasters desperately trying to link their pain to the Golf dinner in Clifden is just gutter journalism. Phil Hogan broke the rules but no, he doesn't need to apologise to grieving families for their covid related loss.

Whilst that family were preparing to bury their dad who abided by all the measures, Hogan and his merry band of cohorts were preparing for their big piss up which broke the restrictions.

golfball37 · 24-08-2020 02:42PM

I think its very telling that the MSM and entire focus is now on Phil Hogan. We are missing the bigger picture entirely and the cynic in me says its been a deliberate misleading.

smurgen · 24-08-2020 03:00PM

All in this together my arse. They're all in it together.

https://twitter.com/rteliveline/status/1297886508771418116?s=19

magic_murph · 24-08-2020 03:09PM

seamus wrote: »

Assuming that the hotel were compliant, is not good enough.

If one thing has been clear throughout this, it's that everyone has a responsibility to ensure that THEY personally are compliant, and if they are not happy with a situation, to remove themselves from it. To not assume that compliance is someone else's problem.

It's not good enough to say, "My employer said they were compliant", "The hotel said they were compliant", "the shop said they were compliant", "my mammy said we were being compliant".

If someone organises a 50-person house party, it is not just their fault when fifty people turn up; all fifty of those people are equally in breach and equally at fault.

Likewise everyone who turned up at that dinner and said, "It's grand, the hotel said they were compliant", is at fault. This is a pandemic. Responsibility for your safety cannot be delegated to someone else.

This is not "cancel culture". This is a country that is sick to the back teeth of corruption, cronyism and cute hoorism. The same kind of corrupt "I'll do what I want" crap that made Barry Cowen think he could drive without a licence and evade a Garda checkpoint. The same kind of arrogant cute hoor crap that made Phil Hogan think, "Tis grand, none of the quarantine rules apply to me, and I'm allowed to use my phone while driving because I'll be grand".

And the same kind of stuff that led 81 people to attend a golf dinner thinking, "The compliance rules don't really apply to us, we're all important people."

Irish people are sick of it, the party leaderships have clearly realised this, but it seems to be taking some time for career politicians to accept it.

If the irish people were sick of it thousands wouldn't have turned up protesting about civil rights being violated when being asked to wear a face make during a pandemic.
I think people are focusing on this wrong threat here.

Uriel. · 24-08-2020 03:20PM

McMurphy wrote: »

Relax Josey, it was tonhue in cheek fcs.

I already stated an "IF" in the post, I said IF irrefutable evidence comes to light that either Martin or Varadkar were in full knowledge of the event due to, and then going ahead despite knowing full well that it violated regulations, they drew up, and did not even attempt to prevent/stop it, then they need to be held to account also.

The buck doesn't stop with them?

Either LV and MM are the police or they are not.

What does "full knowledge" mean.?

Basically what your saying is MM and LV have a role to micromanage and police every event or issue they have some level of ill defined knowledge about

Edgware · 24-08-2020 03:55PM

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Good boy Enda positioning himself nicely in today’s Indo.

Sure you’d never know when a big job in Europe would become vacant!!

I'd say he will bide his time until a vacancy turns up in the Aras. Mikey D isnt getting any younger. Enda is a home bird and would prefer to have the good life for a possible two terms rather than taking on work for the E.U.

24-08-2020 05:22PM

Séan O'Rourke never to return to airwaves on RTE, according to Mary Wilson just now.

Hawthorn Tree · 24-08-2020 05:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Séan O'Rourke never to return to airwaves on RTE, according to Mary Wilson just now.

I heard they have tried to get Sean to do an interview but he refused.

Uriel. · 24-08-2020 05:28PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Séan O'Rourke never to return to airwaves on RTE, according to Mary Wilson just now.

Seems over the top.

Yurt2 · 24-08-2020 05:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Séan O'Rourke never to return to airwaves on RTE, according to Mary Wilson just now.

Sad end to his broadcast career to get mixed up in this messy and unfortunate business. Of all people who were in the room I would have thought he of all people should have known he shouldn't have been there.

He still has my respect (and I presume many others) respect as a journalist, but he has fatally undermined his ability to appear on the airwaves as a trusted broadcaster to the wider public.

Gerry Hatrick · 24-08-2020 05:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Séan O'Rourke never to return to airwaves on RTE, according to Mary Wilson just now.

Good. His softball questions won't be missed by many.

ShamNNspace · 24-08-2020 05:31PM

Great news Aine Brady ceo third age(unavailable for comment) will redouble her efforts to continue to find positive outcomes for older people over the coming period.. Mighty alltogether

FrancieBrady · 24-08-2020 05:33PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Sad end to his broadcast career to get mixed up in this messy and unfortunate business. Of all people who were in the room I would have thought he of all people should have known he shouldn't have been there.

He still has my respect (and I presume many others) respect as a journalist, but he has fatally undermined his ability to appear on the airwaves as a trusted broadcaster to the wider public.

I was a fan of O'Rourke too but I think he gets away without answering a question I would like asked.
How many of these events did he attend during his active career and one for journalism in general: how often do journos attend these type of get togethers

Muahahaha · 24-08-2020 05:38PM

Sad about o'Rourke but if he wasnt prepared to go on air and explain himself then he left RTE management in a difficult position. Had he come back on radio in a couple of months as a contractor he would have had little credibility trying to hold politicians to account.

Would also like to know how common is it for political journalists to be attending piss ups with politicians. I remember the morning of Garglegate and Brian Cowen being drunk on radio David Davin Power tried to extinguish that story but Ursula Halligan of TV3 scooped him. The allegation was that Davin Power was drinking with the FF party in the hotel bar till 3am that morning.

gmisk · 24-08-2020 05:41PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Séan O'Rourke never to return to airwaves on RTE, according to Mary Wilson just now.

Sean O'Rourke's planned return to RTÉ cancelled by 'mutual decision' https://jrnl.ie/5184693

Seems pretty harsh but only himself to blame

Minister for Agriculture attends 81-person golf event in breach of health guidelines

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