Netflix sexualising children.

i_surge · 21-08-2020 11:11AM

nthclare wrote: »

Yes the liberals are very similar to their arch enemy.

They're not well and never win any argument or cause.

Moderate is far better than far left or alt right.

Although both loons will say it's worse sitting on the fence, but sitting on the fence isn't practical because it's uncomfortable and bad for your fence,and your posterior.

So **** you liberals and alt right, only a fool sits on the fence.

Sitting on the wall is probably less harmful..

When the writings on the wall like it is now, there's SFA to be done about it.

Well at least your wall has some foundations

The worst outcome is if the left go completely overboard it opens the stage for the hard right to creep into power, as we have already seen elsewhere.

There are already enough fringe lunatics getting semi radicalised here.

GarIT · 21-08-2020 11:12AM

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Which makes the fact that child actors are allowed to seek the dialogue very bizarre,

And that is not a comment on this particular movie but every movie.

Does it make sense to not allow a 13 year old hear a 13 year say "**** it" ?

I actually have the opposite view on that. An 11 year old acting out something probably won't have a terrible effect on the 11 year old. Not will it have a terrible effect on one 11 year old viewing it. But if thousands of 11 year olds see it it could have a negative affect on culture and normalised behaviours.

Our own Saoirse Ronan got raped and murdered in a movie at 13 or 14 and she knew exactly what was happening. Probably did her some good getting her to think about protecting herself rather than did harm.

I've always found ratings strange, murder sometimes 12+ mostly 15+, a single boob 18+

Errashareesh · 21-08-2020 11:12AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Can I just confirm that there's no dressing up of eight year old girls as child brides and parading them in front of old men in frocks or anything like that in this terrible movie? And no dressing up of twelve year old girls in bizarre wigs and pancake make-up to make them look like they're eighteen? I really wouldn't want to see any of that stuff coming to good old Catholic Ireland.

This is the other tactic.

"But but whatabout..." - because it's not possible to be critical of both. Can only be one or the other. That's the law.

Gruffalux · 21-08-2020 11:14AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Can I just confirm that there's no dressing up of eight year old girls as child brides and parading them in front of old men in frocks or anything like that in this terrible movie? And no dressing up of twelve year old girls in bizarre wigs and pancake make-up to make them look like they're eighteen? I really wouldn't want to see any of that stuff coming to good old Catholic Ireland.

Haha! That was such a stretch I could hear the stitches in your leotard pop.

Psychiatric Patrick · 21-08-2020 11:17AM

keano_afc wrote: »

There's a strange phenomenon these days that some people are so full of hate for those on the opposite side of the political spectrum to them that they will literally defend ANYTHING that the other side oppose.

The only reason people defended a poster of 11 years old in sexually provocative positions was because people on the other side to them were offended by it. I mean, they didnt even check to see if the poster was genuine. The first reaction was that it was fake, because there was no way they could (anonymously) agree with "American Nazi" types.

Its absolutely hilarious.

If that is the only reason I'd be unworried but it cannot be denied that that there is a strange attitude in the world about children and child abuse.

I do not know if "normalising" it is the right description but there is something.

keano_afc · 21-08-2020 11:18AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Can I just confirm that there's no dressing up of eight year old girls as child brides and parading them in front of old men in frocks or anything like that in this terrible movie? And no dressing up of twelve year old girls in bizarre wigs and pancake make-up to make them look like they're eighteen? I really wouldn't want to see any of that stuff coming to good old Catholic Ireland.

**WHATABOUTERY KLAXON**

Psychiatric Patrick · 21-08-2020 11:22AM

hots wrote: »

Exactly. The poster looks to me like someone in netflix has tried to get a bit clever and grab some shock factor views (the girls sad faces in it deliberate and 'arty'), with a bit of luck they'll be looking for a new job soon.

The content of the film is discussing issues though, and clearly the director's intent is not to sexualise kids, it's to look at kids growing up in different scenarios have to deal with it.

If people have an issue with this they should be knocking at disney and nickelodeon's doors first, they are far greater offenders in sexualising minors.

Yes it is topics that need to be highlighted and discussed but it can be done effectively without, for example, putting the girls in such costumes and doing that dance - and I'm talking about the movie not the poster.

TheValeyard · 21-08-2020 11:25AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Can I just confirm that there's no dressing up of eight year old girls as child brides and parading them in front of old men in frocks or anything like that in this terrible movie? And no dressing up of twelve year old girls in bizarre wigs and pancake make-up to make them look like they're eighteen? I really wouldn't want to see any of that stuff coming to good old Catholic Ireland.

Mr. Data, deflectors to maximum!

gormdubhgorm · 21-08-2020 11:26AM

Sure isn't there another one netflx called pen15? I thought it said something else and thought clever, but a bit on the edge.

But lets be honest it is nearly always the working class demographic who become sexually active earlier and have families earlier. Because the women and men do not have the example of third level education or education in general. Leave school early, no proper parental guidance, then are sexually active nothing to do - kills time.

Then you have estates full of single parent families and the cycle continues. A netflix show is not going to make much difference to this fact. Plus young girls are always listening to sexualised music Miley Cyrus/Arinda Grande and so on. Then soon they take millions of photographs and pout on social media. With make up caked on. If parents do not set a good example it is obvious where it ends.

Netflix is not the cause of sexualisation of children but a symptom of society. In particular, a certain demographic of society (not always but in most cases).

Parents are the ones who are the root cause not the likes of Netflix. It is parents who set the example.

AndrewJRenko · 21-08-2020 11:32AM

nj27 wrote: »

Didn't they ever boil a frog? You can't whack the heat up too quickly or the motherfucker will hop out of the pot. Tiny incremental increases is how you push a depraved agenda into the mainstream.

Unfortunately for you, just like Guliani's broken windows theory, it's another myth.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2006/09/the-boiled-frog-myth-stop-the-lying-now/7446/

joseywhales wrote: »

Jaysus can they not do gymnastics or maths or something less reliant on the attention of others for self esteem.

Something like this, perhaps?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/fionola-meredith/vulgarity-of-irish-dancing-culture-takes-away-from-the-terrific-talent-on-display-35186319.html

Errashareesh wrote: »

This is the other tactic.

"But but whatabout..." - because it's not possible to be critical of both. Can only be one or the other. That's the law.

Wouldn't it be interesting to know though, how many of those who rushed in with the 'nonce' and 'paedo' chants would be quite happy to see their eight year old dress up as a bride and wheeled out in front of the lads in their frocks?

Errashareesh · 21-08-2020 11:48AM

I'm more interested in the topic at hand than trying to score points in relation to what others might think about other stuff.

And much as I have no time for the first communion ceremony, it isn't sexual. Now if some folk want to spray tan the girls and get their nails and hair done garishly, that's their family, not the church.

Psychiatric Patrick · 21-08-2020 11:49AM

GarIT wrote: »

I actually have the opposite view on that. An 11 year old acting out something probably won't have a terrible effect on the 11 year old. Not will it have a terrible effect on one 11 year old viewing it. But if thousands of 11 year olds see it it could have a negative affect on culture and normalised behaviours.

Our own Saoirse Ronan got raped and murdered in a movie at 13 or 14 and she knew exactly what was happening. Probably did her some good getting her to think about protecting herself rather than did harm.

I've always found ratings strange, murder sometimes 12+ mostly 15+, a single boob 18+

What was actually shown of the rape and murder on screen? What way was the scene filmed?

I've seen the movie and I do not remember the attack - which suggests to me that it was not shown** - but maybe I looked away.

I cannot say what effect a role in a movie would affect someone but I was not suggesting wasn't suggesting trauma from being told to swear or from hearing.

Chris_Heilong · 21-08-2020 11:53AM

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

I have a pain in my bollox with the mental gymnastics those on the extremes of the left and right goto. It seems you can only be one or the other. Each side trying to out bolloxology the other in taking the furthest stance from each other.

I am left leaning on a lot of issues but think the state of that promo is beyond ****ed up.

It seems if someone disagrees with a poster then that poster must be the other side politically and therefore not worth listening to, this is regardless of what the reality might be. Most of us should be able to agree on good/bad ideas regardless of the politics where the idea comes from but it does seem so hard for certain people to separate the idea from the political origin of the idea. We can see it even with this covid issue, one side not wanting to wear masks the other ignoring potential treatments because of who mentioned it first.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-08-2020 12:08PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Not in this there shouldnt, I genuinely did not think for one second id come in to this thread to find pages of people defending the film or its presentation, I thought we would all be in resounding agreement that it was inappropriate and exploiting children

Then why do you ALWAYS create a left v right environment, and then lable everyone with a different politcial view to you as pedophiles or condoning pedophiles? Is strawmanning the only way you can debate an opposing viewpoint?

Can you not just debate an issue on its merits without politicising it?

As I said: I'm left wing and I'm not particualtly in agreement with it, so where does that leave you political soapbox?

i_surge wrote: »

Of course there are, don't be so facetious. You have a particularly strong political alignment, many have the opposite. You are all wrong.

My opinion is not political - it's based on the trailer.

Who's "you ... all"? Everyone on the thread?

Gruffalux · 21-08-2020 12:22PM

But how did they make the poster? Flew them over or went to France? Hair, makeup, lights, camera people, wardrobe, director - not a single one of those people batted an eye lid when the spectacled kid at the back was told to hold that pelvic tilt dahling, shoulder forward now. Or when the wee black girl with the dreads was told to tilt up and smack her own bum? Not a wtf out of any of the adults in the room even when the set director hoisted up the hem of her shorts for a little more flesh? Even the little girl with the dreads is showing by her face that this is not how you direct 11 year olds.

Psychiatric Patrick · 21-08-2020 12:24PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Then why do you ALWAYS create a left v right environment, and then lable everyone with a different politcial view to you as pedophiles or condoning pedophiles? Is strawmanning the only way you can debate an opposing viewpoint?

Can you not just debate an issue on its merits without politicising it?

As I said: I'm left wing and I'm not particualtly in agreement with it, so where does that leave you political soapbox?

My opinion is not political - it's based on the trailer.

Who's "you ... all"? Everyone on the thread?

The trailer is not the way to form an opinion either.

It shows some dancing and costumes but the trailer and the music spins the movie in a way that does not match with the reviews by those who saw it at Sundance.

For example towards the end of the trailer it shows a brief clip of the girls talking to teenage boys (16/17 year olds) The girls are asked their age and the glimpse makes it look as though the boys are amused and intrigued. However the reviews describe that whole scene very differently.

You need to look further than the promo video approved by the same people who approved the poster.

Psychiatric Patrick · 21-08-2020 12:27PM

Gruffalox wrote: »

But how did they make the poster? Flew them over or went to France? Hair, makeup, lights, camera people, wardrobe, director - not a single one of those people batted an eye lid when the spectacled kid at the back was told to hold that pelvic tilt dahling, shoulder forward now. Or when the wee black girl with the dreads was told to tilt up and smack her own bum? Not a wtf out of any of the adults in the room even when the set director hoisted up the hem of her shorts for a little more flesh? Even the little girl with the dreads is showing by her face that this is not how you direct 11 year olds.

I believe the poster is a screen grab from the movie itself.

It looks it is a screen grab anyway.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-08-2020 12:29PM

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

The trailer is not the way to for an opinion either.

It shows some dancing and costumes but the trailer and the music spins the movie in a way that does not match with the reviews by those who saw it at Sundance.

For example towards the end of the trailer it shows a brief clip of the girls talking to teenage boys (16/17 year olds) The girls are asked their age and the glimpse makes it look as though the boys are amused and intrigued. However the reviews describe that whole scene very differently.

You need to look further than the promo video approved by the same people who approved the poster.

Fair point, but at the moment it's all I have to go on. I'd argue neither Eric nor most people on the thread haven't watched it either. It's not something that would be top of my "to watch" list anyway.

nthclare · 21-08-2020 12:30PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Then why do you ALWAYS create a left v right environment?

Can you not just debate an issue on its merits without politicising it?

My opinion is not political - it's based on the trailer.

Who's "you ... all"? Everyone on the thread?

Well you had a dig at a lot of posters opinions here which weren't directly saying anything negative or hostile towards your opinion...

So what's your problem ???

Gruffalux · 21-08-2020 12:30PM

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I believe the poster is a screen grab from the movie itself.

It looks it is a screen grab anyway.

Really?
Well the same instructions and personnel apply when filming as per photo shoot in which case the Director is not the innocent she claims to be.

i_surge · 21-08-2020 12:34PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Then why do you ALWAYS create a left v right environment, and then lable everyone with a different politcial view to you as pedophiles or condoning pedophiles? Is strawmanning the only way you can debate an opposing viewpoint?

Can you not just debate an issue on its merits without politicising it?

As I said: I'm left wing and I'm not particualtly in agreement with it, so where does that leave you political soapbox?

My opinion is not political - it's based on the trailer.

Who's "you ... all"? Everyone on the thread?

Everyone who follows the typical hard left or hard right ideology. They become very predictable very quick. Huge groupthink and web of self supporting lies on both sides. Likes to "destroy".

The types with a scripted doctrine pre-approved answer for everything.

take everything · 21-08-2020 12:39PM

seamus wrote: »

The image in the OP is a fake created to make it appear like this is a pageant-style movie about dancing 11 year olds being sexy. It's not an image that Netflix has produced.

The "specialising in twerking routines" is also made up nonsense that has little to do with the film.

Look at the trailer and you'll see very little connection with the fake posters the OP has posted.

This an award-winning French film about a preteens immigrants difficulty aligning her home culture and home life with that around her. Examinig the early sexualisation of children is a theme in this movie.

Of course, American Nazi and religious types are losing their mind about it, while ignoring the fact that they are the biggest creators and consumers of actual child porn in the world.

This poster has not responded to any of the subsequent rubbishing of his post.

So he either truly believes everything he posted (and 43 others do as well) and feels there is nothing else to argue or is too cowardly to debate whether he might be mistaken in some aspects about this.

This guy is respected here.
He's probably forgot about this or more likely has rationalised it away.
So not a breeze on him this morning.

Another perfect little microcosm reminding me of why people not into accountability are the ones who go far in life.

donaghs · 21-08-2020 12:49PM

RasTa wrote: »

If that trailer offends you, then you are a pedo or have some attraction to children.

If we've learned anything from shows like this, and the "minipops" in the 80s, there are people like that with a penchant for these shows.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minipops

e.g. the poet Philip Larkin in his (private) letters revealed an "unhealthy" interest in the minipops.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-08-2020 12:50PM

nthclare wrote: »

Well you had a dig at a lot of posters opinions here which weren't directly saying anything negative or hostile towards your opinion...

So what's your problem ???

The problem is the "either you agree with me that this as sexualised or you're a left wing pedophile" mentality.

Gruffalux · 21-08-2020 12:56PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The problem is the "either you agree with me that this as sexualised or you're a left wing pedophile" mentality.

That is a weird opinion true enough, same level of weird as presuming from the starting gun that anyone who looks at that picture and thinks what the hell, is a religious Nazi lover both producing and consuming child abuse videos in their moonshine shack.

Psychiatric Patrick · 21-08-2020 12:57PM

Gruffalox wrote: »

Really?
Well the same instructions and personnel apply when filming as per photo shoot in which case the Director is not the innocent she claims to be.

I'm no expert but it looks like that.

I'm not suggesting it is any less wrong an image to use but if I'm correct that it is a grab it does at least mean there are less people involved in this bizarre decision.

If it was a photoshoot it would be a mess that cannot be explained away.

I don't think there are many directors involved in approving the marketing campaign but the director of this film certainly wouldn't be. That is Netflix's job.

While I have issues with making a drama film of this topic because it requires using children in unsuitable scenes the reviews make it clear that the poster, description and even the trailer misrepresent what the movie is about.

Gruffalux · 21-08-2020 01:04PM

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I'm no expert but it looks like that.

I'm not suggesting it is any less wrong an image to use but if I'm correct that it is a grab it does at least mean there are less people involved in this bizarre decision.

If it was a photoshoot it would be a mess that cannot be explained away.

I don't think there are many directors involved in approving the marketing campaign but the director of this film certainly wouldn't be. That is Netflix's job.

While I have issues with making a drama film of this topic and with using children in in unsuitable scenes the reviews make it clear that the poster, description and even the trailer misrepresent what the movie is about.

Well it also leads to a discussion on what is art. What is politically motivated art. For a start some subjects are too bad and aught not be enacted. Eg snuff porn. Child abuse industry explanation etc. How far is too far? Also suggestion is a powerful filmic technique used in former times - we are not such cretins now that we need everything to be shown in HD to get the idea. Also political or sociological motivation is often claimed by those seeking notoriety via titillation. I distrust it as a clarion cry for artistic freedom. For example I thought Edna o Brien profiting by making art from the murder of Imelda Riney and her child was crass and egotistical.
And so on. Lots of room to discuss what is justifiable.

Psychiatric Patrick · 21-08-2020 01:28PM

Gruffalox wrote: »

Well it also leads to a discussion on what is art. What is politically motivated art. For a start some subjects are too bad and aught not be enacted. Eg snuff porn. Child abuse industry explanation etc. How far is too far? Also suggestion is a powerful filmic technique used in former times - we are not such cretins now that we need everything to be shown in HD to get the idea. Also political or sociological motivation is often claimed by those seeking notoriety via titillation. I distrust it as a clarion cry for artistic freedom. For example I thought Edna o Brien profiting by making art from the murder of Imelda Riney and her child was crass and egotistical.
And so on. Lots of room to discuss what is justifiable.

Early this morning I decided to give some feedback to Netflix.

Not a rant just want I said here - the poetics need to be discussed but I disagree with doing it is a drama because they getting chidden to act it out but I mainly wanted to tell them how it just boggles my mind that someone saw that image and thought "that will be good for the poster" let alone how it got approved.

There is actually no feedback form. You have to tell the people on live chat wh then transcribe it to the feedback form (or so they clim anyway)

nthclare · 21-08-2020 01:41PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The problem is the "either you agree with me that this as sexualised or you're a left wing pedophile" mentality.

You're only deflecting, I never engaged in any such opinion myself.
I was expressing my opinion on liberals and the far right brigade's.

As for your expressiveness view's I think we're on a different planet or have conflicting world view's.

If you look back in history and culture you'll see that a lot of vulnerable young people have been taken advantage of by celebs, Pop star's etc and it's wrong totally wrong and has to stop.

Teen-agers and kid's are better off enjoying their childhood and adolescence.

Nothing wrong with girls and boys playing cops and robbers or being princesses and pretending to be pop stars.

But adults and nonses capatilising and promoting it for their own financial or sick gain is sick and smells of danger and flashing red lights.

Nobody's calling anyone anything here, they're mostly sticking to the subject matter apart from maybe a few of us including myself getting a dig at the far right and liberal agenda's.

Does this iron it out for you ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-08-2020 01:55PM

nthclare wrote: »

You're only deflecting,

You asked what the problem was, I answered.

I never engaged in any such opinion myself.
I was expressing my opinion on liberals and the far right brigade's.

Acceted, you presented a different ignorant crass generalisation,

As for your expressiveness view's I think we're on a different planet or have conflicting world view's.

If you look back in history and culture you'll see that a lot of vulnerable young people have been taken advantage of by celebs, Pop star's etc and it's wrong totally wrong and has to stop.

Teen-agers and kid's are better off enjoying their childhood and adolescence.

Nothing wrong with girls and boys playing cops and robbers or being princesses and pretending to be pop stars.
But adults and nonses capatilising and promoting it for their own financial or sick gain is sick and smells of danger and flashing red lights.

Nobody's calling anyone anything here, they're mostly sticking to the subject matter apart from maybe a few of us including myself getting a dig at the far right and liberal agenda's.

Does this iron it out for you ?

None of this is relevant, because it's based on an unproven premise that you think we should all blindly accept: that the trailer/poster is sexualising children.

What if we don't accept the premise?

Netflix sexualising children.

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