EV or PHEV advice

Mark1916 · 05-08-2020 11:30pm #1

Hi all - finally getting rid of the diesel motor and going to upgrade to either a full EV or PHEV SUV.

I don’t currently use the car for work and for the majority of weekends it’s a trip to the shops / spin to friends or sometimes down to Kerry (from Dublin) once every couple of months.

Wondering what people’s advice would be? Looking at the new Ford Kuga PHEV or the Kia ENiro, any advice / suggestions welcome. Looking to do my bit so will be looking at a hybrid as a minimum!

Budget is around the 40k bracket

graememk · 06-08-2020 9:12am

So general questions

To make life easier do you have off street parking so you can charge at home?

What is your daily commute?

Do you need to tow anything? (Can't fit a towbar to the e Niro, as kia haven't plated it for towing)

Personally I have one and it has heaps of range. Both I and the Mrs have quite a heavy foot with very little city driving, so our range at 100% is usually at 420ish
Because of that the GOM (guess o meter) is pretty spot on.

For a run to Kerry (say.. Tralee) you could get there on a full charge. But would be arriving with 10-15% left
You could charge with a granny cable from a normal socket. Or stop on the way in the likes of moneygall (abetterrouteplanner can help plan journeys)

Or destination charge at any of the 22kwh ones

Phev your electric range is relatively short, but for long journeys you just fill up and go.

We'd average 800km/week and are saving a lot on fuel compared to a 45mpg Sportage (auto)

Black_Knight · 06-08-2020 9:50am

Mark1916 wrote: »

Wondering what people’s advice would be? Looking at the new Ford Kuga PHEV or the Kia ENiro, any advice / suggestions welcome. Looking to do my bit so will be looking at a hybrid as a minimum!

Budget is around the 40k bracket

If they're similar money, I'd go full EV, and never look back. eNiro has loads of range for Ireland, and sounds like loads of range for yourselves. As mentioned, your Dublin to Kerry trip should be no bother, or at worst a 10-15 minute stop along the way (plug in, go pee, grab a coffee, and plug out). Granny cable at your destination is probably fine if you're there a long while, but an eNiro at around 10% battery would take about 28 hours to charge to full on a granny cable. TBH, I wouldn't let that turn me off the car at all - an overnight charge + a quick stop at a fast charger would do you.

Servicing is buttons
Running cost is insignificant
Driving is effortless

Lantus · 06-08-2020 10:38am

The niro is the better choice I'd say as you in the comfortable mileage bracket for 95% of your driving.

One alternative; buy a leaf for say 15k. Instant saving of 25k in your pocket and hire a nice car 6 times a year for kerry. Europcar are offering BMW 5 series auto next weekend for 95eu. Even if it was 200 you'd be paying 1200 a year so over a long time span of 7 years that's still only 8400 and you get to try out loads of different cars like a weekend treat! Total spend is 23400 plus fuel say 2k so 26k spend. 14k still in your pocket to fly first class round the world.... Just a thought...

krissovo · 06-08-2020 12:17pm

For Kerry fast chargers are scarce and the reliability in Killarney for the fast charger has been hit and miss for me , I am in South Kerry at the moment and the main chargers are either 22kw or destination chargers (7kw). The faster "slow" charging you can do the better, my I3 has a onboard 11kw charger that is making my life much easier and even though its a lower range EV its easily workable for me.

There were a lot freeloaders that did hog the charge points but now charging is in place I find they are available when I need them.

the_amazing_raisin · 06-08-2020 3:16pm

You mentioned that you're looking at an SUV, is that the only car type you're interested in? If you want a full size SUV then you'll be limited to basically the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV or Toyota RAV4 Plug-in (not even sure if that's available in Ireland)

Personally, if you can go full EV then go for it. PHEVs are useful if you're regularly travelling long distance and aren't sure of the charging network, but with something like an E-Niro you'll have enough charge to reach most corners of Ireland from Dublin.

EVs are also a bit more fun to drive, PHEVs can get a bit confused when you mash the accelerator and try to decide which engine to use. There's also a maintenance question with PHEVs, you're paying to service a petrol engine that only gets used 10% of the time.

The biggest hurdle can be access to a home charger. If you have your own driveway then you're sorted, but if you're parking on street then you can't get the grant and installing a charger will likely be trickier and more expensive. If you can get a home charger though, it'll make EV ownership much simpler and much cheaper than owning an ICE vehicle.

One other thing to consider, you mentioned you'd be heading to Kerry regularly. If it's family you're visiting, then you could look at investing in a home charger in their house at some stage down the line. Obviously it'd be expensive (between €500-€1000 I think) and you'd need their permission, but it'll give you a reliable charger in Kerry (which by all accounts can be a bit of a rarity)

ei9go · 06-08-2020 6:00pm

Two things to be aware of in PHEV's is that they are mostly not really an electric car.
For example, the Niro PHEV only has a 45 bhp electric motor. The Kuga seems to have 125 bhp which should be much better but it's big petrol engine may not be very motorway friendly on fuel.
Lots of them have to run the petrol engine for heating so will start the petrol motor every morning once it gets a bit colder.

Do your research before you buy a PHEV

jmreire · 06-08-2020 10:44pm

What would be the best EV for a friend of mine to get? He has limited physical movement ability and uses a mobility 4 wheel scooter to get around. So it will have to be something that the scooter can be fitted inside. It can be "flattened down" to reduce the overall height size., but not the wheel base. He currently uses a VW van, which can take it no problem full assembly. Any suggestions? Will have to be a full EV though, he does not want anything with an engine powering it, even intermittently. Thanks for your help.

Mark1916 · 06-08-2020 11:33pm

Thanks for the suggestions really appreciate it! Going to enquire about the E Niro and go full electric (I see there’s a full thread on it) also great suggestion on the wall box on the house in Kerry - and correct it is family, so I’ll definitely look into that!

the_amazing_raisin · 07-08-2020 9:36am

jmreire wrote: »

What would be the best EV for a friend of mine to get? He has limited physical movement ability and uses a mobility 4 wheel scooter to get around. So it will have to be something that the scooter can be fitted inside. It can be "flattened down" to reduce the overall height size., but not the wheel base. He currently uses a VW van, which can take it no problem full assembly. Any suggestions? Will have to be a full EV though, he does not want anything with an engine powering it, even intermittently. Thanks for your help.

So I guess you'll need to look at vehicles which can be adapted to someone with mobility issues, which frankly counts a lot of the current EVs out of the game. I'd imagine they're too small to suit this purpose.

There are several electric vans than are being used as taxis in the UK which can likely be adapted.

There's a passenger version of the Nissan ENV-200 called the Evalia. I remember an episode of fully charged where they interviewed a taxi company which was trying to use them for wheelchair accessible taxis. However they did mention it failed the qualification test for the city (Dundee, Scotland)

There's also a hybrid taxi made by a company called LEVC which is basically an EV with a petrol generator which can charge the battery. It gives you the EV goodness, but you have the possibility to go into petrol mode in case your battery runs low. That might be useful for your friend as I'm guessing using a public charger would be difficult with limited mobility. I don't know if it can be adapted but it seemed to have a lot of space inside as it could seat 6 passengers plus driver

There's a few other electric vans coming out from Opel, Citroen and Peugeot. They're essentially the combustion version converted to an electric vehicle. If any of these vehicles are suitable as combustion versions then I'm guessing the electric versions will work too.

However, as yet none of them are available in Ireland so your friend will probably have to look at importing one from the UK

the_amazing_raisin · 07-08-2020 9:48am

Actually to add to my previous post, I have an Out n About Nipper double buggy which is a bit of a beast when folded, so I've been looking around at EVs that it will fit into. Not sure how it compares for a folded mobility scooter, but I'd image they aren't too different.

Here's the list of cars it fits

* Nissan Leaf Gen1 (with parcel shelf removed) & Gen2 I assume
* Hyundai Ioniq
* Kia E-soul

It'll probably fit in these:

* Kia E-Niro (I think the boot is bigger than the PHEV)
* VW ID.3 and ID.4 (I'll be confirming later this year)
* All of the Teslas

It definitely doens't fit these cars:

* Hyundai Kona
* VW E-golf
* Kia Niro PHEV

However it's worth considering your friend will need to fold the scooter and lift it into each of these cars. Something they can just wheel the thing into with a ramp might be a better option I'm guessing?

jmreire · 07-08-2020 9:49am

cruisey1987 wrote: »

So I guess you'll need to look at vehicles which can be adapted to someone with mobility issues, which frankly counts a lot of the current EVs out of the game. I'd imagine they're too small to suit this purpose.

There are several electric vans than are being used as taxis in the UK which can likely be adapted.

There's a passenger version of the Nissan ENV-200 called the Evalia. I remember an episode of fully charged where they interviewed a taxi company which was trying to use them for wheelchair accessible taxis. However they did mention it failed the qualification test for the city (Dundee, Scotland)

There's also a hybrid taxi made by a company called LEVC which is basically an EV with a petrol generator which can charge the battery. It gives you the EV goodness, but you have the possibility to go into petrol mode in case your battery runs low. That might be useful for your friend as I'm guessing using a public charger would be difficult with limited mobility. I don't know if it can be adapted but it seemed to have a lot of space inside as it could seat 6 passengers plus driver

There's a few other electric vans coming out from Opel, Citroen and Peugeot. They're essentially the combustion version converted to an electric vehicle. If any of these vehicles are suitable as combustion versions then I'm guessing the electric versions will work too.

However, as yet none of them are available in Ireland so your friend will probably have to look at importing one from the UK

Thanks a lot for your help Cruisey, from what I'm seeing of EV's, I didn't there was one out there that would suit my friend, but I said I ask here on Boards, where they have much more experience, and so it has proved.
Thanks again, you have been most helpful.

graememk · 07-08-2020 10:26am

Mark1916 wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions really appreciate it! Going to enquire about the E Niro and go full electric (I see there’s a full thread on it) also great suggestion on the wall box on the house in Kerry - and correct it is family, so I’ll definitely look into that!

Another option to add to the idea of a charge point in Kerry is that get a 32Amp commando socket fitted (or a 16amp, will be still 50% faster than the granny which is 10amp)

Then get a portable charge point for the commando socket
something like this https://evonestop.co.uk/products/ev-charging-cable-type-2-to-32a-commando-7-2-kw-5-metre-mode-2 .

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Actually to add to my previous post, I have an Out n About Nipper double buggy which is a bit of a beast when folded, so I've been looking around at EVs that it will fit into. Not sure how it compares for a folded mobility scooter, but I'd image they aren't too different.

It'll probably fit in these:

* Kia E-Niro (I think the boot is bigger than the PHEV)

I think the "extra" room in the e niro is under the floor,

shown here - https://youtu.be/ux5Ll_68Bt8?t=508
you can remove the plastic and drop the floor but its not a perfect fit, Ive read that people have made their own floor and put a boot liner on it.

Zenith74 · 07-08-2020 11:20am

Mark1916 wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions really appreciate it! Going to enquire about the E Niro and go full electric (I see there’s a full thread on it) also great suggestion on the wall box on the house in Kerry - and correct it is family, so I’ll definitely look into that!

Ring around a few Kia garages. There is generally quite a long leadtime on eNiros (heard 6 months at some points), but with C19 a number of garages have had cancelled orders so have some sitting in-stock.

There was an announcement from Kia that they have upped supply to the UK to significantly reduce waiting lists, which will hopefully impact us as well. But still, if you want one I'd try and jump on cancellation stock in any garages in the coming weeks, they won't hang around!

the_amazing_raisin · 07-08-2020 2:17pm

jmreire wrote: »

Thanks a lot for your help Cruisey, from what I'm seeing of EV's, I didn't there was one out there that would suit my friend, but I said I ask here on Boards, where they have much more experience, and so it has proved.
Thanks again, you have been most helpful.

No problem at all, happy to help!

If it's okay, please keep us informed in how your friend fares looking at EVs, I think it'd be good to know as their experience could server as an important example in future. Feel free to post any questions they have, there's a lot of help available here

One other thing to consider, I'd say it's essential your friend is able to install a home charger if they're going full EV. This usually means they'll need their own driveway so they can install an EV charger outside their house.

There's folks here to live off public chargers, but there's always a risk that they'll be broken or occupied. I'm not sure that'd be worth the risk when your car is very much essential to your mobility

EV or PHEV advice

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