If car has been charged, can the street charger company disconnect remotely?

Andy From Sligo · 29-07-2020 12:41am #1

I couldnt find where to put this under Mods so if it belongs under a existing thread please feel free to move...

I am new to all this charging malarkey and on the whole will like if I can do my charging at home but say this scenario:

I pull up to a street charger

the car that is being charged with type 2 charger has finished charging to 100%

do I wait for the person to come back and press the button on their keycard or button inside the car and disconnect the street charger lead?

Or can the street charger company remotely 'unlock' the said car in the bay so I can pull the charger out of his socket and plug it into mine so I can start charging mine?

Thanks.

Gumbo · 29-07-2020 7:42am

If it’s another car then it stays locked I believe until they disconnect.

stesaurus · 29-07-2020 8:57am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I couldnt find where to put this under Mods so if it belongs under a existing thread please feel free to move...

I am new to all this charging malarkey and on the whole will like if I can do my charging at home but say this scenario:

I pull up to a street charger

the car that is being charged with type 2 charger has finished charging to 100%

do I wait for the person to come back and press the button on their keycard or button inside the car and disconnect the street charger lead?

Or can the street charger company remotely 'unlock' the said car in the bay so I can pull the charger out of his socket and plug it into mine so I can start charging mine?

Thanks.

Its usually not an issue as its very unlikely to have a vacant space next to the charger. There would be nowhere for you to park and reach the charger even if you could remove their cable.
So just move on and don't rely on being able to access to public charging.

unkel · 29-07-2020 9:12am

The cable can not be (remotely) unlocked at the charge point, because that would make the cable also become unlocked at the car. Which means then the cable could be stolen. So no is the answer!

Felexicon · 29-07-2020 9:48am

unkel wrote: »

The cable can not be (remotely) unlocked at the charge point, because that would make the cable also become unlocked at the car. Which means then the cable could be stolen. So no is the answer!

That's not actually the case. You can unlock the pin in the connector on some charte points without the car being affected

slave1 · 29-07-2020 10:14am

Yes, it's hit and miss depending on the car and charge point

eddhorse · 29-07-2020 11:24am

With the new € charges for the ESB EV chargers I think this will solve itself, they will also eventually bring in an overstay charge so won't be a problem IMO

unkel · 29-07-2020 4:36pm

Felexicon wrote: »

That's not actually the case. You can unlock the pin in the connector on some charte points without the car being affected

Not in any of the ESB charge points afaik and I'm pretty sure that's the charger the OP is on about. We are not talking the likes of home chargers or private work here.

Felexicon · 29-07-2020 6:48pm

unkel wrote: »

Not in any of the ESB charge points afaik and I'm pretty sure that's the charger the OP is on about. We are not talking the likes of home chargers or private work here.

I'm talking about public use charge points. It is possible. Now I wouldn't do it as you are leaving yourself open to other issues but it is definitely possible

unkel · 29-07-2020 6:57pm

Felexicon wrote: »

I'm talking about public use charge points.

Are you saying this is possible on ESB charge points? I doubt it. They would be open to litigation, effectively handing privately owned charging cables on a plate to thieves.

Felexicon · 29-07-2020 7:01pm

unkel wrote: »

Are you saying this is possible on ESB charge points? I doubt it. They would be open to litigation, effectively handing privately owned charging cables on a plate to thieves.

I'm not sure about ESB.

As I said it's not a function you would use in the situation the OP laid out. As you pointed out you are leaving yourself exposed legally. Not just to theft but if you release a cable and its left lying on the ground and someone trips over it you would be in the firing line

slave1 · 29-07-2020 7:14pm

Hey Andy, just phone them and find out

Andy From Sligo · 30-07-2020 5:43pm

eddhorse wrote: »

With the new € charges for the ESB EV chargers I think this will solve itself, they will also eventually bring in an overstay charge so won't be a problem IMO

Just got my ESB charging card through the post yesterday - it does say there is an overstay fee of €4.60 after 45 mins . i presume that means that if your car has finished charging in an hour and is left on the charger for 45mins you are penalised by €4.60 taken out of your account/prepaid card.

Now to intepret that properly .. are they saying you must not charge your car for longer than 45mins and get the charge ... or you are charged the fee if you stay on the charger 45mins after charging to 100% ?? - I am reading it as if you are charging over 45minutes on the ESB street chargers with your car you will be charged €4.60 on top of your charging fee (if there is a charge to charge)

https://esb.ie/ecars/faqs#:~:text=It%20typically%20takes%20as%20little,of%20%E2%82%AC4.60%20will%20apply.

Johnboy1951 · 30-07-2020 5:54pm

How long can I stay at an ESB charge point?
It typically takes as little as 30 minutes to charge an electric vehicle at a fast charge point up to 80%. To maximise the availability of fast charge points for all drivers, we encourage you to complete your session within 45 minutes. After this time, an overstay fee of €4.60 will apply at all ESB fast chargers.

That seems clear to me ........ any time spent over 45 mins, even if still charging, is subject to overstay charge.
It does specify it applies to Fast Charge Points.

ELM327 · 31-07-2020 9:51am

If it's a fast charger, yes you get the overstay fee. Not at standard/destination chargers.

For the cable to unlock from the standard/destination charger, it would not be allowed under type2 protocol usually. This can be configured differently by the chargepoint owner however, (eg our chargers in work unlock at the charger end if you are not charging)

Andy From Sligo · 31-07-2020 1:39pm

ELM327 wrote: »

If it's a fast charger, yes you get the overstay fee. Not at standard/destination chargers.

For the cable to unlock from the standard/destination charger, it would not be allowed under type2 protocol usually. This can be configured differently by the chargepoint owner however, (eg our chargers in work unlock at the charger end if you are not charging)

ah thats clever - it kind of makes sense in a way ... yeah I suppose it doesnt on a street charger, health and safety and that with a wire trailing across the pavement to trip up on etc..

yes I must of read that a million times and yet still it didnt jump out at me that it was just the fast chargers have an overstay penalty .

and as for not getting my head around the 45 minute thing maybe I have a touch of dyslexia or something because I couldnt make it out before properly I read it too ways , it was as clear as mud to me. There have been a couple of times in the past where I have struggled to understand something that was clear as daylight to others. - i must start reading stuff at face value.

UID0 · 02-08-2020 11:11am

unkel wrote: »

Not in any of the ESB charge points afaik and I'm pretty sure that's the charger the OP is on about. We are not talking the likes of home chargers or private work here.

I did a test on this this morning, and certainly at the ESB charger at my local Tesco, the charger end unlocks when the car is finished charging (flashing blue light on charge point). The cable remains locked to the car.
With the way the charge points are located, there are about 6 spaces that can reach the pedestal with a 5m cable, so if somebody is finished charging, but hasn't returned to their car, the next person can plug in.

Andy From Sligo · 05-08-2020 12:24am

UID0 wrote: »

I did a test on this this morning, and certainly at the ESB charger at my local Tesco, the charger end unlocks when the car is finished charging (flashing blue light on charge point). The cable remains locked to the car.
With the way the charge points are located, there are about 6 spaces that can reach the pedestal with a 5m cable, so if somebody is finished charging, but hasn't returned to their car, the next person can plug in.

ah right - like it , I could see that could become so annoying that you turn up to charge your car and the car using up the CP has already been charged and still left plugged in - that has no use to nobody , the car has already charged and has no more use to be plugged in but it is use to have it where someone else pulls up for an emergency top up and can get to plug their car in

the_amazing_raisin · 05-08-2020 8:53am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah right - like it , I could see that could become so annoying that you turn up to charge your car and the car using up the CP has already been charged and still left plugged in - that has no use to nobody , the car has already charged and has no more use to be plugged in but it is use to have it where someone else pulls up for an emergency top up and can get to plug their car in

They really should have gone with a pay by the minute model for the AC chargers to discourage overstaying. I suspect that a few people are using them as much for free parking as charging

the_amazing_raisin · 05-08-2020 9:01am

UID0 wrote: »

I did a test on this this morning, and certainly at the ESB charger at my local Tesco, the charger end unlocks when the car is finished charging (flashing blue light on charge point). The cable remains locked to the car.
With the way the charge points are located, there are about 6 spaces that can reach the pedestal with a 5m cable, so if somebody is finished charging, but hasn't returned to their car, the next person can plug in.

Yeah I always thought the lock on the charger end was just while the cable was live to prevent arcing if the cable was disconnected suddenly. It wouldn't make sense to lock the car to the charger beyond that.

It's probably a sign that I'm too nice but I don't think I'd be happy to disconnect someone's car from the charger even if it was finished charging. I'd be worried about damaging the cable or something and being liable for damages.

I wish they'd gone with pay by the minute for the AC chargers, or even pay per 15 mins when not charging or something like that. It'd be a good way to stop people using the chargers for longer than they need them

ELM327 · 05-08-2020 9:27am

UID0 wrote: »

I did a test on this this morning, and certainly at the ESB charger at my local Tesco, the charger end unlocks when the car is finished charging (flashing blue light on charge point). The cable remains locked to the car.
With the way the charge points are located, there are about 6 spaces that can reach the pedestal with a 5m cable, so if somebody is finished charging, but hasn't returned to their car, the next person can plug in.

I'm pretty sure the Tesco ones are different

UID0 · 05-08-2020 1:27pm

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the Tesco ones are different

The one I'm talking about is an eCars EFACEC 2x22kW unit. I don't know if other charge point models are different, or if this behaviour is only in this unit or installs in Tesco car parks in general. I cannot extrapolate from a sample size of 1.

Andy From Sligo · 05-08-2020 2:58pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

They really should have gone with a pay by the minute model for the AC chargers to discourage overstaying. I suspect that a few people are using them as much for free parking as charging

this is confusing me at the moment (doesn't take a lot to confuse me) because every now and again I read if your charging you dont have to pay for car parking , and then others say you do - I mean you cannot levitate the car while you are charging so I suppose you have to take up a parking space and therefore I suppose pay hourly or whatever it is for charging ... so when they start charging for all chargers after 10th august we will have to pay for charging and parking space whereas ICE users only have to pay for parking ... (OK you can argue ICE drivers have to pay for petrol/diesel and a car parking space too - filthy environmentally unfriendly polluters LOL

)

eagerv · 05-08-2020 3:11pm

It varies from county to county re parking charges.
Some have no charge if plugged in, others have a time limit and some have no charge for an EV parking anywhere. And cities often charge for parking charging or not charging.

the_amazing_raisin · 05-08-2020 3:11pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

this is confusing me at the moment (doesn't take a lot to confuse me) because every now and again I read if your charging you dont have to pay for car parking , and then others say you do - I mean you cannot levitate the car while you are charging so I suppose you have to take up a parking space and therefore I suppose pay hourly or whatever it is for charging ... so when they start charging for all chargers after 10th august we will have to pay for charging and parking space whereas ICE users only have to pay for parking ... (OK you can argue ICE drivers have to pay for petrol/diesel and a car parking space too - filthy environmentally unfriendly polluters LOL )

Yeah it can be confusing, basically some of the spots are free and some aren't, it's up to whoever owns the parking space the charger is on

The app usually tells you which stations are paid parking.

To give the really short answer, pretty much all public parking spots are free to park while charging except Dublin city center. Most train and bus stations are free to park too from what I've seen.

Obviously if the parking is free anyway then you don't have to pay.

I think you're allowed 24 hours parking normally although I've no idea how they enforce this. Also not sure if they'll clamp your car if it isn't plugged in

There was a bit of a row between Dublin city council and ESB years ago because apparently ESB installed the chargers without telling the council about them. DCC said that people still need to pay for parking because you can't have people buying EVs to skip on paying for parking, blah blah blah...

YellowBucket · 05-08-2020 3:15pm

Would the plug be at any risk of water ingress if it’s removed from the charger and left in the rain?

the_amazing_raisin · 05-08-2020 5:30pm

YellowBucket wrote: »

Would the plug be at any risk of water ingress if it’s removed from the charger and left in the rain?

So the plug for an ev isn't like a household plug, it's only live when the charger recognises that there is a car connected and requesting charge. Under any other circumstances the plug isn't live, so therefore shouldn't suffer any damage from water ingress

Having said that, please don't go dunking your charging cable into a bucket of water to see what happens, I won't be responsible for what happens

YellowBucket · 05-08-2020 6:19pm

Yeah but if someone unplugs it, leaves it in say a rain storm, or a puddle, will that damage the plug or render it unsafe to use?

the_amazing_raisin · 05-08-2020 6:31pm

YellowBucket wrote: »

Yeah but if someone unplugs it, leaves it in say a rain storm, or a puddle, will that damage the plug or render it unsafe to use?

Should be fine, the plugs are IP54 rated at least which makes them splash proof at a minimum. If I found one immersed I'd give it a good shake to clear any water out of the connectors

I'd be more worried about someone dropping my plug on the ground and damaging it, or dust and dirt getting jammed in the connectors.

I've seen one or two chademo plugs fail because of physical damage. Connector wasn't put back properly and fell out onto the ground and got damaged

Andy From Sligo · 06-08-2020 6:00pm

I read an article once said you "could drop the Type 2 plug (car end) into a puddle of water an it will be fine" ..... but not to do it on purpose to test it

the connecting pins seem to be brass on the cable connector and look carbon on the car socket by the looks of it, so hopefully wont go rusty with water ingress which they may do if they were just normal metal , they might tarnish though which maybe could affect charging time , or handshaking to tell the charger to start charging. So when I got my Zoe the other day first thing I done (because it were a secondhand Zoe I I dont know its history) was to get a can of Halfords switch and electrical contact cleaner spray out of my workshop and liberally sprayed the type 2 cable contacts (both ends) and then sprayed some into the charging socket pins of the zoe - the spray normally gets rid of tarnishing and grease off electrical contacts and improves connection .

If a person did drop a plug in a puddle or water or water did get inside I suppose along with shaking it to get all the droplets of water out I suppose you could try that easy-start spray, if you remember that , (not even sure if they still make it?) - but its a water displacement spray - i used to spray it on my distributor and spark plug leads on my old motors to dry out the damp in the electrics.

If car has been charged, can the street charger company disconnect remotely?

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