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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

  • 30-07-2020 11:29pm
    #1
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,196 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭


    I guess the fact restrictions have been lifted to a great extent has quietened this topic down, but equally I suspect we may see quite a bit more activity as we continue to try and deal with this pandemic

    Part I
    Part II
    Part III
    Part IV

    All warnings and threadbans carry over. Please PM the mod issuing a threadban if you wish to discuss options for being allowed to post again

    Mod warnings
    Beasty wrote: »
    It looks like tensions in this thread have been rising

    Some general warnings to all:

    Remain civil. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just because it's the polar opposite of your own does not invalidate it. Anyone who is uncivil towards other users can expect a minimum of a threadban.

    Keep to the topic

    Do not present "opinion" as "fact"

    Do not believe all stats that are spouted. Usually figures presented in any official way are not only checked for inaccuracies, but will also have caveats and/or explanations of what was done to derive any conclusions reached. Stats though are not "facts" beyond the sample they represent. They can be used to draw conclusions over wider populations, but those conclusions are always subject to a margin of error

    If you throw up an example please explain what point you are making. For example "Look at Sweden" means nothing unless you say what you are looking at in connection with Sweden. Is it restrictions, is it deaths, is it infections?
    Beasty wrote: »
    Another reminder - this thread is about restrictions and their relaxation

    General Covid discussion belongs in the current Covid thread (#XVII)

    Political discussion belongs in Current Affairs or Politics

    Threadbans:
    housemouse
    Cupatae
    CtevenSrowder
    Unelected CMO
    Risteard81
    trapp
    RugbyLad11
    Jimmy Garlic
    Jinglejangle69
    easypazz
    snowcat
    ziggyman17
    ShineOn7
    JoeExotic81
    The_Dazzler
    lawrencesummers
    LiquidZeb
    gral6
    John O.Groats


«134567…330

Comments

  • #2
    WashYourHands
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭WashYourHands


    Phase 5 of this thread begins

    * Will pubs be open in under 2 weeks?
    * What countries will be added/removed from the green list on Tuesday?
    * Will opening schools cause spikes?
    * Will masks become mandatory in public?
    * Has Eamon Ryan woken up yet?


  • #3
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Open up the pubs! Yahoo


  • #4
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,713 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    The wait begins


  • #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    This is Ireland. We will be back in phase 2 next week haha!!!


  • #6
    Penfailed
    Registered Users Posts: 7,467 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    jacdaniel2014 wrote: »
    This is Ireland. We will be back in phase 2 next week haha!!!

    So much negativity. It's not healthy.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Penfailed wrote: »
    So much negativity. It's not healthy.

    Unless it’s Covid, we don’t tend to care too much about health these days.


  • #8
    skelly22
    Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭skelly22


    WashYourHands wrote: »
    Phase 5 of this thread begins

    * Will pubs be open in under 2 weeks?
    * What countries will be added/removed from the green list on Tuesday?
    * Will opening schools cause spikes?
    * Will masks become mandatory in public?
    * Has Eamon Ryan woken up yet?

    Can't see pubs re-opening any time soon, and increasingly doubt schools will open in September. Masks to become mandatory in public looks like an absolute certainty at this stage. Many are already doing it. And localised lockdowns, as are happening in England, will increasingly be "coming soon to a town near you". And on and on we go, testing more & finding more cases and locking people down at the drop of a hat. Dark times ahead. Greenland is on the green list though so that's positive.


  • #9
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Are there still people out there that believe lockdown is an effective tool to combat Covid-19?

    It's laughable at this stage. How many billions will need to be flushed down the toilet, how many hundreds of thousands of viable jobs need to be lost before the penny drops?

    The virus will outlast our ability to stay locked down - that's the reality.


  • #10
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    skelly22 wrote: »
    Masks to become mandatory in public looks like an absolute certainty at this stage.
    It does? Based on what? Most European countries, many with higher numbers, aren't doing this.


  • #11
    skelly22
    Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭skelly22


    ixoy wrote: »
    It does? Based on what? Most European countries, many with higher numbers, aren't doing this.

    Primarily based on everything I've seen & heard in recent weeks. They're being pushed from every angle. Many European countries aren't currently doing it but they're all debating it. It's not exactly difficult to envisage. There are really only 3 scenarios where masks can be worn - Public Transport, Shops/Supermarkets and, finally, in public. We're already two thirds of the way there.


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  • #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Are there still people out there that believe lockdown is an effective tool to combat Covid-19?

    It's laughable at this stage. How many billions will need to be flushed down the toilet, how many hundreds of thousands of viable jobs need to be lost before the penny drops?

    The virus will outlast our ability to stay locked down - that's the reality.

    We seem to have all of our eggs in the vaccine basket. That is all well and good if the vaccine is confirmed in September and starts rolling out this year. BUT

    What if the vaccine's don't work?
    What if it is going to take much longer than anticipated?

    How long can the government keep people onside? People are at breaking point.


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    facehugger99 wrote: »

    The virus will outlast our ability to stay locked down - that's the reality.

    This. While I’ve been broadly supportive of measures to date, I think that it is becoming increasingly obvious that this is the case


  • #14
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,472 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    woody22 wrote: »
    This. While I’ve been broadly supportive of measures to date, I think that it is becoming increasingly obvious that this is the case

    Are there other options? To do nothing is basically to accept that people will die. And that if let go enough, like in the US, it becomes almost impossible to halt.

    The evidence would seem to suggest that lockdowns work. We definitely saw a reduction in numbers and the numbers are increasing since we eased the restrictions.


  • #15
    Beanybabog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭Beanybabog


    jacdaniel2014 wrote: »

    How long can the government keep people onside? People are at breaking point.

    Do you remember at the beginning so many people saying “it’s only two weeks!” It feels like a decade ago now


  • #16
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    skelly22 wrote: »
    Primarily based on everything I've seen & heard in recent weeks. They're being pushed from every angle. Many European countries aren't currently doing it but they're all debating it. It's not exactly difficult to envisage. There are really only 3 scenarios where masks can be worn - Public Transport, Shops/Supermarkets and, finally, in public. We're already two thirds of the way there.
    I think that final third will be a much tougher sell. Even on public transport, compliance isn't great depending on what time you go at and certainly in the shops I went to it was disappointingly low (and it is not mandatory in shops). And these are places that it will be easier to manage than outside. I think it will be an extremely hard sell and I'd be surprised if it's brought in.


  • #17
    copeyhagen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    the pubs wont be oficially allowed open on the 10th, hopefully they all just open anyway, govt killing an industry.


  • #18
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    skelly22 wrote: »
    Primarily based on everything I've seen & heard in recent weeks. They're being pushed from every angle. Many European countries aren't currently doing it but they're all debating it. It's not exactly difficult to envisage. There are really only 3 scenarios where masks can be worn - Public Transport, Shops/Supermarkets and, finally, in public. We're already two thirds of the way there.

    There's no way I'll be wearing a mask while out and about and there's no way that it can be enforced it.

    Just like the lockdown it only worked because the citizens agreed to do it there isn't enough guards in the country to enforce a rule of making us wear a mask in public.

    I won't be rushing to take any vaccine either until it's proven to be safe and no I'm not anti vaccine I'm pro look after your health before jeopardising your health with the potential side effects from a vaccine for a virus that realistically isn't going to effect my health in any major way.


  • #19
    John O.Groats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭John O.Groats


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    There's no way I'll be wearing a mask while out and about and there's no way that it can be enforced it.

    Just like the lockdown it only worked because the citizens agreed to do it there isn't enough guards in the country to enforce a rule of making us wear a mask in public.

    I won't be rushing to take any vaccine either until it's proven to be safe and no I'm not anti vaccine I'm pro look after your health before jeopardising your health with the potential side effects from a vaccine for a virus that realistically isn't going to effect my health in any major way.

    How do you know that?


  • #20
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,472 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    There's no way I'll be wearing a mask while out and about and there's no way that it can be enforced it.

    Just like the lockdown it only worked because the citizens agreed to do it there isn't enough guards in the country to enforce a rule of making us wear a mask in public.

    I won't be rushing to take any vaccine either until it's proven to be safe and no I'm not anti vaccine I'm pro look after your health before jeopardising your health with the potential side effects from a vaccine for a virus that realistically isn't going to effect my health in any major way.

    So you are into looking after yourself healthwise but against wearing a mask?

    Even if it only lowers the change of getting the virus by a small amount, why would you be against it?


  • #21
    skelly22
    Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭skelly22


    ixoy wrote: »
    I think that final third will be a much tougher sell. Even on public transport, compliance isn't great depending on what time you go at and certainly in the shops I went to it was disappointingly low (and it is not mandatory in shops). And these are places that it will be easier to manage than outside. I think it will be an extremely hard sell and I'd be surprised if it's brought in.

    You'd imagine it would be a tough sell but by the time it's enforced most people will be doing it anyway. Many already are and more everyday.


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  • #22
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    John O.Groats wrote: »
    How do you know that?

    I was replying to another posters assumption about making it mandatory to wear them in public.


  • #23
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    So you are into looking after yourself healthwise but against wearing a mask?

    Even if it only lowers the change of getting the virus by a small amount, why would you be against it?

    I'm against being forced to wear one in public, I've already worn them on public transport.


  • #24
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Beanybabog wrote: »
    Do you remember at the beginning so many people saying “it’s only two weeks!” It feels like a decade ago now

    Sure - that was the narrative at the time. Give the heath service time to prepare.

    Getting on for 5 months now - where are the journalists asking questions about the preparedness of the HSE? Who is being held to account for this clusterfcuk?

    Nah, just keep the state media pumping out the numbers every day and filling people with hysteria while the Government pay hundreds of thousands of people to sit around.

    This is the biggest abdication of responsibility by our so-called 'leaders' and the media - and guess what? - it's being paid for by your taxes and your kids' futures.


  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    There's no way I'll be wearing a mask while out and about and there's no way that it can be enforced it.

    Just like the lockdown it only worked because the citizens agreed to do it there isn't enough guards in the country to enforce a rule of making us wear a mask in public.

    I won't be rushing to take any vaccine either until it's proven to be safe and no I'm not anti vaccine I'm pro look after your health before jeopardising your health with the potential side effects from a vaccine for a virus that realistically isn't going to effect my health in any major way.

    This is a key point that tends to get forgotten.
    The will of the people is ultimately the most important thing.

    I can't put a timeline on it, but eventually things will start to boil over.
    People are at breaking point.


  • #26
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,472 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    I'm against being forced to wear one in public, I've already worn them on public transport.

    OK, but if it for your, and other peoples safety? Just seems an odd position to take.

    I mean I totally get the reluctance. It feels odd, can be uncomfortable, makes one feel self-conscious and, frankly, is weird.

    But if it means that society can reopen more than without then I am all for it.


  • #27
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    The evidence would seem to suggest that lockdowns work. We definitely saw a reduction in numbers and the numbers are increasing since we eased the restrictions.

    Well if you tell everyone to stay at home and only go within 2k, close up all businesses and services apart from those deemed essential then of course your going to see a reduction.

    Then when you gradually reintroduce those service you see an increase and an increase that can be maintained to an acceptable level, such as the average of just under 20 cases a day we had seen until yesterday.

    Then when you get large clusters such as yesterday the tracing and testing comes into play to contain the outbreak and that looks to have done a good job in the case of the dog food factory so far, we'll know how well its fully worked in the next few days.

    Countries such as Slovakia for example that were held up as one of the shining lights, they reopened with 1 or 2 cases a day, now reporting between 20-40 most days, not gone back on any restrictions.

    Going back to lockdown won't be the answer simply because as a country we can't afford it again.

    With regards to your mask comment there's evidence of indoor settings and public transport yes, outdoor settings not so much, don't think they'd make that leap


  • #28
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,472 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    jacdaniel2014 wrote: »
    This is a key point that tends to get forgotten.
    The will of the people is ultimately the most important thing.

    I can't put a timeline on it, but eventually things will start to boil over.
    People are at breaking point.

    Really, breaking point?

    I think the next big issue, fast approaching, is the reopening of schools. That has all the hallmarks of a serious cause of tensions. PLenty of parents did everything they could since March, but they are not teachers.

    How teachers react, particularly given that so many others have done the necessary (health workers, shop staff etc) will be another potential issue. When the first few teachers get sick will we see a full walk out?

    At this point, I have given up on the bars reopening on 10th. The numbers would suggest that we should be rowing back on lifting the restrictions, not reopening in full.


  • #29
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    OK, but if it for your, and other peoples safety? Just seems an odd position to take.

    I mean I totally get the reluctance. It feels odd, can be uncomfortable, makes one feel self-conscious and, frankly, is weird.

    But if it means that society can reopen more than without then I am all for it.

    That's a slippery slope where will it end?

    What other freedoms will you give up for the greater good?

    At what point will you stop and think for yourself is this actually necessary?

    Or will you just continue to follow the advice from NPHET, HSE and the government without questioning it?


  • #30
    John O.Groats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭John O.Groats


    jacdaniel2014 wrote: »
    This is a key point that tends to get forgotten.
    The will of the people is ultimately the most important thing.

    I can't put a timeline on it, but eventually things will start to boil over.
    People are at breaking point.

    Which people are you referring to? Nobody I know is at breaking point or even close to it.


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  • #31
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,472 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    That's a slippery slope where will it end?

    What other freedoms will you give up for the greater good?

    At what point will you stop and think for yourself is this actually necessary?

    Or will you just continue to follow the advice from NPHET, HSE and the government without questioning it?

    Ah, ok. So it's not the mask as such, it is the fear of being controlled.

    You assume that I haven't questioned it, not sure on what you are basing that on. Have you questioned it, how? DO you have qualifications in the area of infectious diseases? Have you looked through the research on this and other similar viruses such as SARS?

    They are the experts, and not only them but we can see it across every country in the world. Even common sense would point to a mask is a way to reduce the spread of droplets. I mean, you believe in raincoats? You believe in umbrellas?

    As a society, we need to adjust to the risks that we face. If we were under attack militarily, I would expect that our military leaders would be involved in making the decisions.

    I listen to doctors when I am sick. When they say that I need to stay home from work I don't see that as they trying to limit my freedom, I see it as both a requirement to rest and recover for myself but also to reduce the chance o spreading whatever illness I have to others.

    You only need to look at the US to see how not adhering to the use of masks and restrictions is not the way to go.


This discussion has been closed.
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