Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

M&P 15-22

  • 15-06-2020 10:19pm
    #1
    JohnFitz2332
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭


    Hi all,

    I'm just wondering about the M&P 15-22. I was going to do a substitution for my 22lr bolt action for one, which I figured would be fine because it's the same calibre. The fella in the gun shop said the new licence might have to be restricted purely because of what the M&P 15-22 looks like. Is this really the case? I figured I could just fill out the substitution part of the form and be grand.


Comments

  • #2
    The pigeon man
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭The pigeon man


    JohnFitz2332 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I'm just wondering about the M&P 15-22. I was going to do a substitution for my 22lr bolt action for one, which I figured would be fine because it's the same calibre. The fella in the gun shop said the new licence might have to be restricted purely because of what the M&P 15-22 looks like. Is this really the case? I figured I could just fill out the substitution part of the form and be grand.

    Yes a firearm is restricted if it resembles an assault rifle. It will in practice be up to the super to decide this.

    Apply for the substitution and see what happens.


  • #3
    JohnFitz2332
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭JohnFitz2332


    The pigeon man wrote: »
    Yes a firearm is restricted if it resembles an assault rifle. It will in practice be up to the super to decide this.

    Apply for the substitution and see what happens.


    In principle, that's exactly what I'd do, but the alarm system and all that jazz is another can of worms. Out of interest, if someone had a 10/22 on an unrestricted licence and then later changed out the stock to some kind of ar looking thing, would they then be compelled to change the licence from unrestricted to restricted?


  • #4
    PSXDupe
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭PSXDupe


    I have seen plenty of M&P15-22 and Hammerli TAC R1 around the place, all on non-restricted licences.

    Seeing one of them at the range doesn't really cause issue, however, if you were walking around a field with one it may cause a few heads to turn.

    For gallery rifle, fine, for a hunting rifle, I'd pick some for friendly :)



    hammerli.jpg


  • #5
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    JohnFitz2332 wrote: »
    I Out of interest, if someone had a 10/22 on an unrestricted licence and then later changed out the stock to some kind of ar looking thing, would they then be compelled to change the licence from unrestricted to restricted?

    Others here might disagree with me on this (Grizz for one :)) but my thinking is yes, if you change the stock to an AR stock, you probably do need a restricted licence. But that's me playing it safe. You might never ever get questioned on it, but then again, you might. I'm looking it the same way as if you plugged a 25 round mag into a 10/22, fine without it, but restricted with it.

    It's one of the most stupid laws ever, but we just have to deal with it as best we can.


  • #6
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I would disagree..:D You can put whatever weird stock you want on a rifle if it is unrestricted. This was a bone of contention and sorted straight off with the target shooters,when you consider the contraptions some of their target stocks are with pistol gripped designs
    It's shotguns that they have the problem with.Mag capacity is the more important one for restricted rifles Example of this would be the Ruger Precision rifle in bolt action.It's having probs being liscensed because of its 15 shot .22 magazine,and looks secondary.
    Thats the hard one to sell to a CHEIF Super,[you move up a rank with those weighty decisions!] Unless you are shooting mini practical rifle outside of the ROI,there isn't any good reason that I can think of to justify a 10 plus round mag in .22:( or that couldnt be sorted with some gorilla glue and two ten rounders:rolleyes:

    As for the problem of using one hunting. Way I somewhat sorted it.Paint it a weird colour or camo scheme.Everyone is a rascist to these rifles! Because they are BLACK!:D:D But I bet no one would be so freaked out by one while out hunting if it had a "muddy girl" cammo pattern or somthing of the like.No self respecting criminal,or Jihadi would be seen with such a rifle paint scheme,as they stand out like sore thumbs,and thats what you want if the local curtain twitcher starts ringing AGS...Describing the "big gun" that the "terrorist" is carrying as " floursecnt orange with black stripes" is going to to question the report of this one or its going to ring a bell and say Oh thats Grizz,he has a quare lookin yoke alright ,remember it well."

    Finally the MP15 has a product safety notice on it at the moment if it was pre 2019 build. They are prone to a possible slam fire if the bolt is released to chamber a round.
    See the thread over on the target shooting for further info.:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Advertisement
  • #7
    JohnFitz2332
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭JohnFitz2332


    Thanks everyone for the input. I reckon I'll put in for the M&P unrestricted and see what the craic is. I love a good argument anyway


  • #8
    JohnFitz2332
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭JohnFitz2332


    JohnFitz2332 wrote: »
    Thanks everyone for the input. I reckon I'll put in for the M&P unrestricted and see what the craic is. I love a good argument anyway

    Chickened out and bought a 10/22!

    I do have another question, however. On an unrestricted licence, is it permissible to get a longer mag (thinking bx-25 or bx-15 here) and immediately (and permanently) plug/limit it to 10 rounds, or is this not ok?

    I find the laws and regulations around this stuff really vague and poorly defined - and obviously don't want to break any laws/regulations


  • #9
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Grey area. There is precedence in law with the .22 mags on handguns being plugged from 10 to 5. So it could be argued on that point , on old possessions b4 this was enacted. However it's as said one of those things that need a legal judgement.

    However, in this case, you are looking at importing them directly in a 20 or more shot and converting them here.Who can do the conversion to whatever nebelous standards required? They'd have to be converted permanently outside ROI and to do that and get them to then function properly is another question,as the spring tension and geometry is pretty crucial in these mags and they can be finickity at best too.
    If you need that amount of ammo on tap.Buy a bunch of ten rounders ,and practise speed reloading:)
    Best of luck with the 10/22.You got IMHO a better rifle that you can Barbiei fy to your hearts content.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #10
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    JohnFitz2332 wrote: »
    I do have another question, however. On an unrestricted licence, is it permissible to get a longer mag (thinking bx-25 or bx-15 here) and immediately (and permanently) plug/limit it to 10 rounds, or is this not ok?

    Amendment to my previous, now deleted, post.

    No you can do this. I still stand by that. However the language is so contradictory, after reviewing it, that it would make it seem legal, but not to your benefit.

    SI 391/2015 deals with the amendment to section 4(2) of SI21/2008, but I thought it only referenced 22lr pistols. It does not. It says firearms. This non specific description means any firearm using 22lr rimfire ammunition with a magazine of not more than 5 rounds, however modified.

    The problem here is it was designed to clear up the pistol issue and even if you claim it applies to rifles too, well it actually hinders, not helps, you.

    As it stands you can have 10 rounds in a 22lr rifle without it being restricted. So what advantage is there to having a 25 rounds mag restricted, however its done, to 5 rounds when you can have 10 round (only) mags already.

    So even if you wanted to go by the "grey area" defence it would only apply to restricting a mag to 5 rounds, not to more than 5.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #11
    JohnFitz2332
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭JohnFitz2332


    Thanks Cass and Grizzly. It was purely an aesthetic concern for me, to be honest (because I never really grew up :D) I bought a silly stock and prefer the look of the longer mags in it


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    kellbag91
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭kellbag91


    I just put in the papers to change a 22lr bolt action for a tacr1 semi-auto. I'll update the tread if I get it on a regular license.


  • #13
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    Is there much difference in accuracy between a Ruger 10/22 and a Hammerli Tac R1 or a Smith and Wesson M+P 15-22? What would the best 22lr semi auto to get for targets?


  • #14
    solarwinds
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭solarwinds


    Munsterlad102 wrote: »
    Is there much difference in accuracy between a Ruger 10/22 and a Hammerli Tac R1 or a Smith and Wesson M+P 15-22? What would the best 22lr semi auto to get for targets?


    SIG 522, always wanted one, and available up North.


  • #15
    Bigchoppers110
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Bigchoppers110


    kellbag91 wrote: »
    I just put in the papers to change a 22lr bolt action for a tacr1 semi-auto. I'll update the tread if I get it on a regular license.

    Any Update on your license ?
    I applied for a substitution license for Hammerli Tac R1, traded in a savage .17 HMR bolt action. Chancing my arm at the substitution... Anyway it wasn't accepted and Ive had to apply for new license and cancel the .17hmr.

    Long story short, i was told not to tick the restricted/unrestricted box for the category by the firearms Sergent as he wanted to seek clarification from the garda firearms ballistic unit as whether it is restricted firearm. Now they've asked for a photo of the rifle " as if they cant just google it ".

    I'm thinking now that they are going to insist on classifying it as a restricted firearm.

    I just wanted to ask, have you applied for a restricted or unrestricted license ? And just to touch base and follow the thread to see what the outcome is. It seems like its a postcode lottery. There's loads of semi auto 22lr in my club unrestricted (aunchutz msr, 10/22 with archangel stock, m&p 22/15, ISSC MK22 MSR, mp5 22lr) etc. For some reason the Tac R1 seems to be throwing up a red flag.


  • #16
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Long story short, i was told not to tick the restricted/unrestricted box for the category by the firearms Sergent as he wanted to seek clarification from the garda firearms ballistic unit as whether it is restricted firearm. Now they've asked for a photo of the rifle " as if they cant just google it ".

    OH MY LORD!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
    I'm thinking now that they are going to insist on classifying it as a restricted firearm.

    I'm not going to do the whole "looks like " spiel here again.
    For some reason the Tac R1 seems to be throwing up a red flag
    Proably because the "Tactical annotation on its name?Makes it all the more deadlier!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #17
    Bigchoppers110
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Bigchoppers110


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    OH MY LORD!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D



    I'm not going to do the whole "looks like " spiel here again.


    Proably because the "Tactical annotation on its name?Makes it all the more deadlier!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    It's mad the fact that I could be at the range and have the same firearm as the person standing beside me, but mines a restricted firearm and theirs isn't. Not really a fair and equal application of the law.


  • #18
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Make sure you tell your FAO to ask the lads in ballistics to look up the 2018 copy of the Commish guidelines.
    All that Bull oney of "looks like," and "assault rifles" is remarkably absent....
    IOW its not a valid discrimination point anymore.

    i wonder why....:p:p:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #19
    kellbag91
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭kellbag91


    Bigchoppers110 wrote: »
    Any Update on your license ?
    I applied for a substitution license for Hammerli Tac R1, traded in a savage .17 HMR bolt action. Chancing my arm at the substitution... Anyway it wasn't accepted and Ive had to apply for new license and cancel the .17hmr.

    Long story short, i was told not to tick the restricted/unrestricted box for the category by the firearms Sergent as he wanted to seek clarification from the garda firearms ballistic unit as whether it is restricted firearm. Now they've asked for a photo of the rifle " as if they cant just google it ".

    I'm thinking now that they are going to insist on classifying it as a restricted firearm.

    I just wanted to ask, have you applied for a restricted or unrestricted license ? And just to touch base and follow the thread to see what the outcome is. It seems like its a postcode lottery. There's loads of semi auto 22lr in my club unrestricted (aunchutz msr, 10/22 with archangel stock, m&p 22/15, ISSC MK22 MSR, mp5 22lr) etc. For some reason the Tac R1 seems to be throwing up a red flag.

    I actually just sent off the paperwork today. I went in and spoke with a Guard, he told me that he had one himself on an unrestricted license. I went with his advice. In the application I explained that it's for range use, and I intented to use it in "mini-rifle" and "gallery rifle" competitions. On the application I avoided using the word "tac" just in case it's perceived wrong (tactical). I also stuck in supporting material like: handling course certificates. Like it's hard to believe pistols are on unrestricted licenses and something like a tacr1 requires hoop jumping. I'll update if I get it.


  • #20
    kellbag91
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭kellbag91


    Bigchoppers110 wrote: »
    Any Update on your license ?
    I applied for a substitution license for Hammerli Tac R1, traded in a savage .17 HMR bolt action. Chancing my arm at the substitution... Anyway it wasn't accepted and Ive had to apply for new license and cancel the .17hmr.

    Long story short, i was told not to tick the restricted/unrestricted box for the category by the firearms Sergent as he wanted to seek clarification from the garda firearms ballistic unit as whether it is restricted firearm. Now they've asked for a photo of the rifle " as if they cant just google it ".

    I'm thinking now that they are going to insist on classifying it as a restricted firearm.

    I just wanted to ask, have you applied for a restricted or unrestricted license ? And just to touch base and follow the thread to see what the outcome is. It seems like its a postcode lottery. There's loads of semi auto 22lr in my club unrestricted (aunchutz msr, 10/22 with archangel stock, m&p 22/15, ISSC MK22 MSR, mp5 22lr) etc. For some reason the Tac R1 seems to be throwing up a red flag.


    So update, I got the license on a standard substitution. When I sent in the paperwork I made sure I had supporting documents and mentioned I had a safe (which is standard anyway). Any updates on your own application ?


  • #21
    mopro80
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭mopro80


    kellbag91 wrote: »
    So update, I got the license on a standard substitution. When I sent in the paperwork I made sure I had supporting documents and mentioned I had a safe (which is standard anyway). Any updates on your own application ?

    Congrats! Interesting, so you got it on an unrestricted licence despite the look resembling an assault rifle. I guess if you ever move to another district and apply for a renewal they might interpret this differently. I think applying for a restricted licence might have been the safer option and would have also given you the option of not having the mag capacity restriction I guess?


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    kellbag91 wrote: »
    So update, I got the license on a standard substitution.

    Congrats. Happy and safe shooting to you.

    Just as a reminder, and not preaching or telling you your business, you know its only allowed to have ten round mags? Don't be tempted to buy a larger mag and sure as sh*t don't get caught with one, using one.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #23
    kellbag91
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭kellbag91


    Cass wrote: »
    Congrats. Happy and safe shooting to you.

    Just as a reminder, and not preaching or telling you your business, you know its only allowed to have ten round mags? Don't be tempted to buy a larger mag and sure as sh*t don't get caught with one, using one.

    Thanks lads, hopefully we will see a few more individuals get granted the firearm without issue. I'm happy with the 10 shots I've no need, or license for the 30 shots.


Advertisement