Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Johnny7136 · 20-07-2020 12:24AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Pity you spent all the time reading twitter which is full of plenty of poor quality opinions of little substance. Any scientific publications that might back up your scepticism? And sceptical of what exactly? Who benefits from sensationalising the dangers of this virus? And if it is such a lucractive venture to apparently make some kind of jumped up common flu look far more dangerous than it is then why havn't 'they' done this before? How are so many international bodies and influential people in completely different fields government,law,medical,scientific,education etc coordinating so seamlessly to dupe the collective global public into this campaign of fear? Why doesn't this happen all the time?
1300 scientists recently came to a consensus that it is about 6.5x more dangerous than flu. I don't see what information you could have at your disposable that would in any way go to refute that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/coronavirus-death-rate.html

The first sentence in your link says it has infected 11 million people killing 525 thousand.
We don't know this for fact because the testing isn't accurate and so many deaths are been recorded incorrectly, in New York the hospitals were been paid extra for covid deaths so more people were recorded as covid. That kind of carry on means we can't trust any numbers.
Reports of people never been tested and been told their positive, we just can't be sure of the numbers.
I think the UK aren't releasing death numbers at the moment because they recorded anyone that ever had covid that died months later still went down as covid.
In America there's a massive blame game towards trump, it's trump's fault everyone is dying. He is obviously a bit thick but he's not the cause of all the deaths

bb1234567 · 20-07-2020 12:28AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

The first sentence in your link says it has infected 11 million people killing 525 thousand.
We don't know this for fact because the testing isn't accurate and so many deaths are been recorded incorrectly, in New York the hospitals were been paid extra for covid deaths so more people were recorded as covid. That kind of carry on means we can't trust any numbers.
Reports of people never been tested and been told their positive, we just can't be sure of the numbers.
I think the UK aren't releasing death numbers at the moment because they recorded anyone that ever had covid that died months later still went down as covid.
In America there's a massive blame game towards trump, it's trump's fault everyone is dying. He is obviously a bit thick but he's not the cause of all the deaths

So what has caused the massive increase in excess deaths in countless countries worldwide then hmm?
And before you predictably try to claim lockdowns caused it, why didn't lockdowns cause excess large excess in for example much of Scandinavia which has small covid outbreaks but similarly harsh extended lockdowns as France, Italy, Spain, UK which cumulatively reported hundreds of thousands of excess deaths above seasonal average?
The unfortunate answer is there is no other explanation other than that COVID has killed many people and the vast majorirty of those within the large number of excess deaths worldwide. COVD testing and death reporting can indeed be inaccurate, but excess deaths don't lie, and I am looking foward to hearing your theory on how the dishonest or incompetent governments of Europe and the world have manipulated excess deathd figures to trick us into thinking covid is a danger.

Johnny7136 · 20-07-2020 12:29AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Surely denotifications are good thing going by your criticisms mentioned moments ago. If a presumed death is not found to have been covid related it's denotified, as in the death was caused by something with symptoms similar to covid but it later tested negative. How's that for accuracy and transparency. Shouldn't you be celebrating this revelation given your prior apprehensions surrounding this

Yes but when they change the deaths from something like 1700 to 1200 which I'm almost certain they did a month ago, thats just unacceptable. Will they change them again in six months time to 600.
It becomes a farce

Wolf359f · 20-07-2020 12:30AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

I'm a massive sceptic of all this. I've just read a little here and people are quoting numbers and death rates from other countries, how can any of the numbers be believed, people are dying with covid, not of covid.
I've read lots now for months on Twitter etc

My take on Florida / Texas.. There are testing huge amount of people that aren't sick. People are been tested up to 4 times hoping for a nagative result to be allowed back to work.

I can't get over how gullable we all seem, out health service has never been run to a high standard, money wasted / bad decisions etc Yet now we trust everything they say.

George Lee on Rte is an expert on science and scaremongering now. He was always an economics man, crazy to listen to a word of that.

We didn't open the pubs this week because an estimated R number is too high. I don't believe that number can be produced with accuracy without testing the whole population. Iceland may have near the correct figure.

How accurate is the testing, god knows, I read today something like 170 brands of test kits have been recalled.

We're now all told to wear masks without any set standard of mask. Fair enough no inconvenience to majority of us wearing a mask for short periods, wearing a mask for 8 hours a day in work, no thanks.

Were told weeks ago dubs not welcome in Wexford etc now we've moved onto Americans, their the new enemy. People should be treated the same from anywhere, social distancing rules the same, if that even works, one meter / two metres, who knows.

We maybe have a bad flu. Likely top 10 worst flus in past 25 years.
The response to this is out of control, I was scared at first when we didn't know anything, the numbers just aren't there... But because we did so well blah blah blah.
I don't think so, people caught the flu at the same rate they would have caught any year.
People die, that's life. So many people die of pneumonia cold and flu every year, we don't shut the country

Jesus.... where to start???
Have you a source that Florida and Texas are reporting positive samples and not positive cases (people), 4 times seems high, In Ireland it's not 400%, it's 12%, you can check that figures for Ireland here: https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Our health service is run to a very high standard. The issues we have is value for money and getting into the system. To suggest the service one receives is subpar is an insult.

The pubs didn't open based on the rolling 7/14 day figures and the estimated R0, which the CMO and modelling panel have admitted with low numbers, the R0 is not accurate/hard to calculate with a high degree of certainty. Mainly the media ran with the R0 figure.

bb1234567 · 20-07-2020 12:35AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

Yes but when they change the deaths from something like 1700 to 1200 which I'm almost certain they did a month ago, thats just unacceptable. Will they change them again in six months time to 600.
It becomes a farce

Right maybe wait and see if that actually happens before getting worked over this issue which likely will not become reality. They didn't change the deaths to 1200 btw, the excess deaths were 1200, rather than the confirmed 1700. That is not the same thing.

Strazdas · 20-07-2020 12:35AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

Yes but when they change the deaths from something like 1700 to 1200 which I'm almost certain they did a month ago, thats just unacceptable. Will they change them again in six months time to 600.
It becomes a farce

They didn't change anything. The figure of 1200 is an estimated one based on excess deaths in 2020, but 1700 remains the official figure.

bb1234567 · 20-07-2020 12:38AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Jesus.... where to start???
Have you a source that Florida and Texas are reporting positive samples and not positive cases (people), 4 times seems high, In Ireland it's not 400%, it's 12%, you can check that figures for Ireland here: https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Our health service is run to a very high standard. The issues we have is value for money and getting into the system. To suggest the service one receives is subpar is an insult.

The pubs didn't open based on the rolling 7/14 day figures and the estimated R0, which the CMO and modelling panel have admitted with low numbers, the R0 is not accurate/hard to calculate with a high degree of certainty. Mainly the media ran with the R0 figure.

No he does not have a source, of course he doesn't. He only seems to deal in rumour and hearsay.

If they are apparently testing many people who aren't sick in Florida and testing them 4 times and they all come back negative (like what..? I dont even know what his point is supposed to be), anyway, how could this possibly be the case when almost 1 in 5 tests in Florida are currently positive for COVID.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/17/892427161/what-accounts-for-high-coronavirus-positivity-rates-among-florida-kids

Wolf359f · 20-07-2020 12:38AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

The first sentence in your link says it has infected 11 million people killing 525 thousand.
We don't know this for fact because the testing isn't accurate and so many deaths are been recorded incorrectly, in New York the hospitals were been paid extra for covid deaths so more people were recorded as covid. That kind of carry on means we can't trust any numbers.
Reports of people never been tested and been told their positive, we just can't be sure of the numbers.
I think the UK aren't releasing death numbers at the moment because they recorded anyone that ever had covid that died months later still went down as covid.
In America there's a massive blame game towards trump, it's trump's fault everyone is dying. He is obviously a bit thick but he's not the cause of all the deaths

The hospitals were paid by the US Government to treat all Covid patients.
They were afraid people would not seek medical help if there was a cost to them if they didn't have healthcare.
Now, give me a non twitter/facebook source that states that NY hospitals murdered people and then said they had covid to get money from the government.
Or the source that they just faked test results stating someone died and was later positive for covid.

Johnny7136 · 20-07-2020 12:38AM

Got to sleep. Il come back with some facts and figures tomorrow.
I think the numbers are very debatable, lots of people are behaving like sheep and allowing our country to be driven into the ground.
Everyone is Terrified of what may not be the scary world ending virus the media are leading us to believe.
Turn off your TV may well be the cure

Wolf359f · 20-07-2020 12:43AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

Got to sleep. Il come back with some facts and figures tomorrow.
I think the numbers are very debatable, lots of people are behaving like sheep and allowing our country to be driven into the ground.
Everyone is Terrified of what may not be the scary world ending virus the media are leading us to believe.
Turn off your TV may well be the cure

Probably the last we'll see of you.
But if not, remember the facts and figures can't be from a random twitter/facebook post, ok?

bb1234567 · 20-07-2020 12:43AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

Got to sleep. Il come back with some facts and figures tomorrow.
I think the numbers are very debatable, lots of people are behaving like sheep and allowing our country to be driven into the ground.
Everyone is Terrified of what may not be the scary world ending virus the media are leading us to believe.
Turn off your TV may well be the cure

Who is causing the massive excess deaths across Europe Johnny? The government? Are they murdering lots of people during the time coinciding with the outbreak of this mild flu pandemic to make COVID look deadly?Or have the media highjacked national statistics databases??

Whats your theory, I want to know!! I really feel you are on to something, help us terrified sheep see the way.

I look forward to this whirlwind of facts in the morning

Wolf359f · 20-07-2020 12:56AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

Got to sleep. Il come back with some facts and figures tomorrow.
I think the numbers are very debatable, lots of people are behaving like sheep and allowing our country to be driven into the ground.
Everyone is Terrified of what may not be the scary world ending virus the media are leading us to believe.
Turn off your TV may well be the cure

bb1234567 wrote: »

Who is causing the massive excess deaths across Europe Johnny? The government? Are they murdering lots of people during the time coinciding with the outbreak of this mild flu pandemic to make COVID look deadly?Or have the media highjacked national statistics databases?? Whats your theory, I want to know!! I really feel you are on to something, help us terrified sheep see the way.

I look forward to this whirlwind of facts in the morning

He should have posted the truth/facts/evidence about this worldwide government conspiracy before going to bed. Ya know, cause it's kinda important. Also ya don't wanna be murdered by the government and put down as a covid death before you expose them!

Polar101 · 20-07-2020 01:45AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

We maybe have a bad flu.

You spent months reading stuff about Covid-19 on Twitter, and your conclusion is "it's a flu"? You might have wasted your time.

SeaBreezes · 20-07-2020 01:51AM

Johnny7136 wrote: »

Yes but when they change the deaths from something like 1700 to 1200 which I'm almost certain they did a month ago, thats just unacceptable. Will they change them again in six months time to 600.
It becomes a farce

Sigh. Thats 1200 excess ( unexpected,above average) deaths on top.of the 500 expected. In TWO MONTHS What did those 1200 people die of? Conspiracytheoryitis? The flu?

Santy2015 · 20-07-2020 02:09AM

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Im sure some of our media will see it as a 33% increase in hospitalisations

But honestly, it fell very quickly from big numbers down to where we are now and both general beds and ICU have been floating around the 10 mark, with ICU a little lower than acute beds. There isn’t usually an reduction over the weekends so will keep an eye over the coming week

It’s 12 people including ICU in hospital. They’re not a separate number.

john why · 20-07-2020 05:39AM

Are masks mandatory from today?

MickeyLeari · 20-07-2020 05:49AM

john why wrote: »

Are masks mandatory from today?

Yes. I think you need them outside also and in your own home.

Meanwhile de Gascun is disappointed that we only have 5% with antibodies which means we are too far from herd immunity.

Polar101 · 20-07-2020 05:59AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/getting-home-to-ireland-it-was-like-we-were-in-a-dystopian-sci-fi-movie-1.4306186

I thought that was an interesting read, a nice little story about returning to Ireland during the pandemic.

schmoo2k · 20-07-2020 06:00AM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Highly effective treatments will win this. Not a vaccine

I firmly believe this

That will simply be an ongoing battle - vaccines will effectively eliminate it.

Polar101 · 20-07-2020 06:02AM

Herd immunity not quite here yet:

Early findings from blood tests taken from more than 2,000 people in Dublin and Sligo in a Health Service Executive study over the past month indicate that the vast majority of the Irish public are still vulnerable to catching Covid-19.

Sample testing for antibodies against the disease in healthy people shows that less than 5 per cent of the population has been exposed to the disease, far short of building any herd immunity against future infection.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/publication-of-travel-green-list-delayed-as-tensions-grow-within-coalition-1.4308344

Azatadine · 20-07-2020 07:13AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53467022

Another potential tool.

is_that_so · 20-07-2020 07:35AM

Polar101 wrote: »

Herd immunity not quite here yet:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/publication-of-travel-green-list-delayed-as-tensions-grow-within-coalition-1.4308344

That's similar to the levels other countries have found in such testing.

Onesea · 20-07-2020 07:43AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Sigh. Thats 1200 excess ( unexpected,above average) deaths on top.of the 500 expected. In TWO MONTHS What did those 1200 people die of? Conspiracytheoryitis? The flu?

Two months? The 1700 figure is over 4 or 5 months no?

I see the trains are packed to capacity no masks etc.. Seen planet of images of the gal way Dublin train.
Irish government introducing laws and rules they cannot police.

plodder · 20-07-2020 07:53AM

Question. If it's the case that people with reduced symptoms produce less anti-bodies and they tend to lose them within weeks or months, does that not mean these sero-prevalence studies aren't an accurate measure of the number exposed to the virus and the percentage of the population exposed to the virus is likely to be much higher?

Non solum non ambulabit · 20-07-2020 07:55AM

Azatadine wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53467022

Another potential tool.

Sounds very promising and relatively simple and safe.

There has been some really great news on treatments over the last week. I am starting to feel more positive again after a few tough weeks.

is_that_so · 20-07-2020 07:56AM

plodder wrote: »

Question. If it's the case that people with reduced symptoms produce less anti-bodies and they tend to lose them within weeks or months, does that not mean these sero-prevalence studies aren't an accurate measure of the number exposed to the virus and the percentage of the population exposed to the virus is likely to be much higher?

They are not done for absolute accuracy, merely to give a good indication of disease prevalence. It's been a low number everywhere, with a few exceptions.

TomSweeney · 20-07-2020 07:58AM

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Sounds very promising and relatively simple and safe.

There has been some really great news on treatments over the last week. I am starting to feel more positive again after a few tough weeks.

Indeed, let's see if this cops governments on that seem determined to utterly destroy their societies, it's like they want to see hundreds of thousands/millions lose their homes and die of ****ing starvation on the streets ...

yosemitesam1 · 20-07-2020 08:05AM

plodder wrote: »

Question. If it's the case that people with reduced symptoms produce less anti-bodies and they tend to lose them within weeks or months, does that not mean these sero-prevalence studies aren't an accurate measure of the number exposed to the virus and the percentage of the population exposed to the virus is likely to be much higher?

Yes, covid has most definitely spread much further than they suggest. T cell response or antibodies present only in mucous represent a large amount of the total infected.

Boggles · 20-07-2020 08:05AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

Indeed, let's see if this cops governments on that seem determined to utterly destroy their societies, it's like they want to see hundreds of thousands/millions lose their homes and die of ****ing starvation on the streets ...

This weekend, I went out for lunch, did a bit of furniture shopping and headed to the beach.

IF anything I over indulged.

plodder · 20-07-2020 08:06AM

is_that_so wrote: »

They are not done for absolute accuracy, merely to give a good indication of disease prevalence.

That doesn't answer the question though.

It's been a low number everywhere, with a few exceptions.

Right, that is why I was asking. I see also that only half the people selected did the test. You could speculate that the people most likely to return the test might be less likely to have been infected, as they might be more careful, rule followers etc.

Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

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