Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

setanta1984 · 15-07-2020 03:17PM

Drumpot wrote: »

There is no definitive information that explains why Supermarkets and their workers do not appear to of been badly affected.

Except the only 100% concrete irrefutable evidence we do have is that it is NOT because of masks. That is indisputable. Because it's the only thing that was 100% not done up to this point.

How anyone can argue with this makes no sense to me.

It's so backwards it's hilarious - the only time when it may have been understandable to mandate something like this, at the very beginning when thousands there were thousands of cases, and everyone was scared witless, we actively discouraged them. And the case numbers plummeted anyway. Now that we have almost no incidence of the disease in the country, we're talking about imposing on 5 million people they can't buy a bottle of milk from the corner shop without one? For how long? We're never going to be in a better position than we are now, so it's facemasks for 5 million people indefinitely until global eradication??

There is no logic there, based on concrete statistics, no matter what mental gymnastics you want to attempt.

Eod100 · 15-07-2020 03:17PM

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Imagine this is a headline in 2020

Sickening we have regressed so far in such a short time

That the pubs broke the rules? Or that rules had to be there in first place?

fire_man · 15-07-2020 03:17PM

My brother was tested today. How quick are they getting results out at the moment?

15-07-2020 03:18PM

gabeeg wrote: »

There's very little evidence in either direction.

So we assume its this magical killer virus that impacts every system in the body of everyone infected?

Most viruses have the potential to cause long term impacts in a small proportion of those infected even after recovery from the virus itself. This is well known and studied, if not fully understood. When a huge pandemic impacts large numbers of a population in a short space of time, such as in Lombardy, of course more of these cases are going to show up. It doesn't mean that these sort of reactions are any more likely with Covid however. Anecdotes from physicians does not equal scientific evidence.

US2 · 15-07-2020 03:20PM

How can they tell us for 3 months that masks are actually more dangerous, now forcing us to wear them.

is_that_so · 15-07-2020 03:21PM

lalababa wrote: »

The wearing of masks in indoor public places (save restaurant s and pubs) would be grand. No problem to do it and see how things are a month down the road. Willy nilly Foreign travel and tourists is another matter.
Also crazy drunken idiots around pubs and of course the 'youff'

That news report is very vague on the where. It kind of suggests the stringent distancing rules in some places were poorly thought out if a mask is suddenly added to the equation.

Eod100 · 15-07-2020 03:22PM

lalababa wrote: »

The wearing of masks in indoor public places (save restaurant s and pubs) would be grand. No problem to do it and see how things are a month down the road. Willy nilly Foreign travel and tourists is another matter.
Also crazy drunken idiots around pubs and of course the 'youff'

I guess they're making a difference between pubs and restaurants and shops is the action but also that say elderly and people with illnesses have to shop for groceries and other things. Might not have relatives dropping them stuff or be able to use online. Whereas pubs or restaurants might be seen as bit more of an optional activity.

I've no issue wearing mask for the few minutes I'd be in a shop. Sure the shorter you're in anyway is the shorter you'd be wearing one for so it's grand

stephenjmcd · 15-07-2020 03:22PM

is_that_so wrote: »

That news report is very vague on the where. It kind of suggests the stringent distancing rules in some places were poorly thought out if a mask is suddenly added to the equation.

If its like the majority of Europe it'll be shops. Restaurants and bars in France for example you don't need to wear one if your sitting at your table, same in Spain I believe

is_that_so · 15-07-2020 03:23PM

US2 wrote: »

How can they tell us for 3 months that masks are actually more dangerous, now forcing us to wear them.

The evidence was weak and even now it's just that droplets can spread, nobody has proved it with COVID-19.

Drumpot · 15-07-2020 03:23PM

setanta1984 wrote: »

Except the only 100% concrete irrefutable evidence we do have is that it is NOT because of masks. That is indisputable. Because it's the only thing that was 100% not done up to this point.

How anyone can argue with this makes no sense to me.

It's so backwards it's hilarious - the only time when it may have been understandable to mandate something like this, at the very beginning when thousands there were thousands of cases, and everyone was scared witless, we actively discouraged them. And the case numbers plummeted anyway. Now that we have almost no incidence of the disease in the country, we're talking about imposing on 5 million people they can't buy a bottle of milk from the corner shop without one? For how long? We're never going to be in a better position than we are now, so it's facemasks for 5 million people indefinitely until global eradication??

There is no logic there, based on concrete statistics, no matter what mental gymnastics you want to attempt.

We don’t know why supermarkets have not yet been found to be responsible for massive clusters. Nothing is 100% proven or disproven, including the potential benefits of masks Being worn in that environment.

You can’t declare something to be something 100% accurate when you don’t have answers to the reason why this might be the case. Again, misguided presumptions that ignores a common sense approach.

Eod100 · 15-07-2020 03:24PM

Wonder does that mean masks will need to be worn in other settings like workplaces?

Jim_Hodge · 15-07-2020 03:24PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

If its like the majority of Europe it'll be shops. Restaurants and bars in France for example you don't need to wear one if your sitting at your table, same in Spain I believe

I wonder would churches be included.

Hurrache · 15-07-2020 03:25PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Shopping comes in many forms. Lots of quick pop ins. It'll need to be a balanced approach.

Not really, you're either in a shop, or not in a shop.

is_that_so · 15-07-2020 03:25PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Wonder does that mean masks will need to be worn in other settings like workplaces?

This will need a lot of clarification.

15-07-2020 03:25PM

spookwoman wrote: »

Ref Long term effects of the virus, the number must be high enough for them to notice that it is happening. Even a small % means probably more people are going to need more medical care as they get older which is going to put more of a strain on a system that is near breaking point. It was mentioned a few months ago that more people are probably going to need lung transplants as well and we don't need to look far to read about it. People need to cop on, just because there are no definitive numbers on long term effects doesn't mean it's not happening.

Cork consultant: Patients already presenting in need of lung transplants after surviving Covid
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-consultant-Patients-already-presenting-in-need-of-lung-transplants-after-surviving-Covid-2a3a2602-2c84-408f-a8ad-63a30ccc4b63-ds

Covid can cause interstitial pneumonia. Suffering from Interstitial pneumonia can require lung transplant in the longer term. This is neither new information, nor people who had mild symptoms who suddenly need a transplant

Arghus · 15-07-2020 03:26PM

Drumpot wrote: »

There is no definitive information that explains why Supermarkets and their workers do not appear to of been badly affected.

The death rate from Covid amongst retail workers is higher in the UK than in the general population.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/14/english-mask-plan-will-help-tackle-high-covid-death-rate-for-shop-staff-matt-hancock

Drumpot · 15-07-2020 03:26PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Wonder does that mean masks will need to be worn in other settings like workplaces?

I think over the coming months, masks will become more common place.

Some will be dragged kicking and screaming into using them but it will become more socially unacceptable to not wear them in certain environments.

As more evidence shows where masks are most successful, we will amend use.

But right now we don’t know enough to make any confident calls.

stephenjmcd · 15-07-2020 03:26PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Not really, you're either in a shop, or not in a shop.

I think he means there's a difference between running in and out of the local shop for milk or something where your in and out in 2 minutes compared to being in a supermarket for a good while.

I won't be putting one on if I happen to be out and want to get a drink in the newsagents for example. I'm in and out in less than a minute

15-07-2020 03:28PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Masks should’ve been compulsory in shops weeks ago

Are poeple who cannot wear a mask for legitimate reasons not allowed go to the shops?

Hurrache · 15-07-2020 03:28PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I think he means there's a difference between running in and out of the local shop for milk or something where your in and out in 2 minutes compared to being in a supermarket for a good while.

I won't be putting one on if I happen to be out and want to get a drink in the newsagents for example. I'm in and out in less than a minute

I know what he means, but like I said, you're either in the shop, or you're not. If it's mandatory there's no discussion as to if you're just grabbing a loaf of bread, or you're doing a weekly shop.

Why do you think you're exempt?

Eod100 · 15-07-2020 03:28PM

is_that_so wrote: »

This will need a lot of clarification.

Which hasn't been their strongest skill so far.

I don't know why they don't have a focus group of say 10 random people from public and would think all these questions would come up naturally then. Seems to be an afterthought with them.

Arghus · 15-07-2020 03:29PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I think over the coming months, masks will become more common place.

Some will be dragged kicking and screaming into using them but it will become more socially unacceptable to not wear them in certain environments.

The ones that will take the most dragging will be those most against restrictions.

Hate restrictions, also hate the masks that give us the best shot of avoiding further restrictions.

Make Ireland Great Again!

stephenjmcd · 15-07-2020 03:29PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Wonder does that mean masks will need to be worn in other settings like workplaces?

Depends probably on whatever the company say and the setting.

In my own place all the distancing is set up, contact tracing, same people in the building daily, one way system around the building. Desks are being partitioned off now as well, so in our case couldn't see a need for them.

Icantthinkof1 · 15-07-2020 03:29PM

fire_man wrote: »

My brother was tested today. How quick are they getting results out at the moment?

My husband was tested Monday at lunchtime he got his results this morn via text at 8am- negative thankfully; hope your brother gets the same result

Drumpot · 15-07-2020 03:29PM

Arghus wrote: »

The death rate from Covid amongst retail workers is higher in the UK than in the general population.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/14/english-mask-plan-will-help-tackle-high-covid-death-rate-for-shop-staff-matt-hancock

When I said definitive, I meant accepted from multiple peer reviewed studies. Is that matched in Italy, USA and other high infected areas?

Eod100 · 15-07-2020 03:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Are poeple who cannot wear a mask for legitimate reasons not allowed go to the shops?

Rules rightly allow for exceptions

is_that_so · 15-07-2020 03:30PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I think over the coming months, masks will become more common place.

Some will be dragged kicking and screaming into using them but it will become more socially unacceptable to not wear them in certain environments.

As more evidence shows where masks are most successful, we will amend use.

But right now we don’t know enough to make any confident calls.

If we have to think in terms of coming months then we will have failed in our public health. The next wave is mental health.

piplip87 · 15-07-2020 03:31PM

Lads is there an announcement today and if so what time

stephenjmcd · 15-07-2020 03:32PM

Hurrache wrote: »

I know what he means, but like I said, you're either in the shop, or you're not. If it's mandatory there's no discussion as to if you're just grabbing a loaf of bread, or you're doing a weekly shop.

Why do you think you're exempt?

I think there's a difference between being in somewhere for a minute and being somewhere for 60 minutes now don't you ?

If I fill the car up with petrol and happen to not have a mask am I to not go into the shop to pay then ?

Let's be practical about this.

And I know your going to say a shop is a shop so its a pointless discussion.

Eod100 · 15-07-2020 03:33PM

piplip87 wrote: »

Lads is there an announcement today and if so what time

For NPHET? Think it's tomorrow as usual at 5.30/6ish

Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

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