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George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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Comments

  • #9092
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    Overheal wrote: »
    Justin my remark wasn’t personal it was a sarcastic way of differentiating shades of “breaking the law” from jaywalking up to mass murder. Your previous comment had been high horse brow beating about any breaking of the law, period, because an old man was outside before dusk and there was a curfew on as an excuse to brutalize and arrest protesters.


    you try find fault with others opinion.
    We are all entitled to opinions, yours do not trump others.
    It is my opinion the old man should not only not have been out, he should not have impeded the oncoming police and put himself in that position.
    A normal person would have got out of the way of the oncoming police.


    Now your opinion differs, and that is your right, but it does not mean you are right all the time.


  • #9093
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    you try find fault with others opinion.
    We are all entitled to opinions, yours do not trump others.
    It is my opinion the old man should not only not have been out, he should not have impeded the oncoming police and put himself in that position.
    A normal person would have got out of the way of the oncoming police.


    Now your opinion differs, and that is your right, but it does not mean you are right all the time.

    Now given the content of your posts in the thread this accusation is highly laughable and hypocritical.

    I never claimed to be correct all the time, nor did I claim people don’t have a prerogative to their own opinions; that is a complete fabrication on your end.

    Old man was exercising his rights to protest and had reasonable expectation that by doing so non violently he would be treated non violently, and at least of all would not be sent to hospital bleeding out the ears.


  • #9094
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,032 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    What did George pass to that cop while on the ground, and why is it not getting mentioned. Seems a big deal to me, that George gave the cop something, and he pocketed it very fast while making sure no one was looking .
    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    It's not a big deal. Not compared to the brutal killing of a man.






    It has to be a big deal. It proves that the cop knew George, and that cop was on drugs. Proving you knew someone you murdered leads to the question of why.


  • #9095
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    Overheal wrote: »
    Now given the content of your posts in the thread this accusation is highly laughable and hypocritical.

    I never claimed to be correct all the time, nor did I claim people don’t have a prerogative to their own opinions; that is a complete fabrication on your end.

    Old man was exercising his rights to protest and had reasonable expectation that by doing so non violently he would be treated non violently, and at least of all would not be sent to hospital bleeding out the ears.


    he was pushed out of the way, he was not beaten, tear gassed, or attacked with a baton, he was pushed aside by the police he impeded after ignoring a warning.


    Had he heeded the warning and not impeded them the incident would not have happened.
    He has to take responsibility for his own actions


  • #9096
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    he was pushed out of the way, he was not beaten, tear gassed, or attacked with a baton, he was pushed aside by the police he impeded after ignoring a warning.


    Had he heeded the warning and not impeded them the incident would not have happened.
    He has to take responsibility for his own actions

    And the cops theirs. They were charged he was not. /shrug


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  • #9097
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Overheal wrote: »
    “ Thursday, Congressman Bobby Rush, a Democrat who represents a Chicago-area district, made a stunning claim at a press conference alongside Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot: during the unrest and looting that occurred in the city two weeks ago during the George Floyd protests, Rush said that his South Side campaign office was broken into, and the Chicago police who responded lounged around in his office, reclined on couches, put their feet up on desks, made coffee and popcorn — while ignoring looting that was occurring in a nearby shopping plaza.

    “And Rush brought the receipts — security cameras in his office had caught the police officers on video as they enjoyed their break from their duties.”

    https://www.mediaite.com/news/congressman-bobby-rush-says-chicago-cops-lounged-in-his-office-made-coffee-and-popcorn-while-nearby-businesses-were-looted/

    Maybe violence in Chicago is so bad because the police are corrupt

    Yes, the police sitting down is definitely responsible for people stealing, robbing and vandalising, ruining likely many shop keepers lifelong efforts


  • #9098
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    he was pushed out of the way, he was not beaten, tear gassed, or attacked with a baton, he was pushed aside by the police he impeded after ignoring a warning.


    Had he heeded the warning and not impeded them the incident would not have happened.
    He has to take responsibility for his own actions

    Pushing an elderly person is not the same as pusing a young person. Do you have any elderly relatives, you're bound to know they're unstable and falls, even simple falls can be very dangerous.
    The police man who gave the push was reckless and overly aggressive.
    I'm fed up going over this same ground but the simple fact is the police pushed him to the ground causing a serious head injury.
    If he was breaking the law the option to arrest was clearly available to them. There was no trouble or melee at the time.
    Arrest him or ignore him two simple options.

    Instead the hardman macho approach was taken.

    Defending the indefensible, and the ironic thing is they're justifying violence against an old man at the same time claiming to support law and order. Nonsensical.


  • #9099
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    Yes, the police sitting down is definitely responsible for people stealing, robbing and vandalising, ruining likely many shop keepers lifelong efforts

    That’s a wild extrapolation on your part. I don’t think anyone was reporting this justified looting. I certainly didn’t. It does call into question how bad Chicago PD allowed things to get, if they allowed it to happen instead of enforcing against it.

    Your logic is as baseless as suggesting that mass shootings are okay because the deputy at Stoneman Douglas was afraid to confront the shooter. You would find people condemning both mass shootings and his failure as a deputy, with no hypocrisy necessary.


  • #9100
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Overheal wrote: »
    That’s a wild extrapolation on your part. I don’t think anyone was reporting this justified looting. I certainly didn’t. It does call into question how bad Chicago PD allowed things to get, if they allowed it to happen instead of enforcing against it.

    Your logic is as baseless as suggesting that mass shootings are okay because the deputy at Stoneman Douglas was afraid to confront the shooter. You would find people condemning both mass shootings and his failure as a deputy, with no hypocrisy necessary.

    There is just a theme of undermining and blaming the police. Do the mayor and those who represent Chicago not share the blame?

    No sides in this are coming out well, but the police seem to be cast as the "bad guys".

    And no that's not what I am suggesting, very much the opposite


  • #9101
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    There is just a theme of undermining and blaming the police. Do the mayor and those who represent Chicago not share the blame?

    No sides in this are coming out well, but the police seem to be cast as the "bad guys".

    And no that's not what I am suggesting, very much the opposite

    And protesters are “the bad guys,” and whether it’s an isolated band of crazies in mineapolos or the Seattle CHAZ etc it’s all blamed monolithically on the left, Antifa, BLM, Democrats, etc.

    I think most people are aware of the nuances both ways. The city only exerts so much control over the PD and it largely boils down to Union contract negotiations. We don’t know if they were ordered to hold there, or if they were just being cowards or slack asses, but it looks awful on the police and on the mayor, yes.


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  • #9102
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    joe40 wrote: »
    Pushing an elderly person is not the same as pusing a young person. Do you have any elderly relatives, you're bound to know they're unstable and falls, even simple falls can be very dangerous.


    Yes, and they have the common sense to know better and would not impede on coming police doing their job.


    In fact they are sensible enough like most rational people to not let themselves get in that position.


  • #9103
    ollkiller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 934 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    he was pushed out of the way, he was not beaten, tear gassed, or attacked with a baton, he was pushed aside by the police he impeded after ignoring a warning.


    Had he heeded the warning and not impeded them the incident would not have happened.
    He has to take responsibility for his own actions

    Is it too hard to ask that a cop can assess what is a threat and what isn't. And it was obvious the 75 old man wasn't a threat. They could have easily walked around him. But no we'll go with the Robocop mentality on a 75 year old. They should be charged just for being that stupid.


  • #9104
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,138 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    ollkiller wrote: »
    Is it too hard to ask that a cop can assess what is a threat and what isn't. And it was obvious the 75 old man wasn't a threat. They could have easily walked around him. But no we'll go with the Robocop mentality on a 75 year old. They should be charged just for being that stupid.

    Completely.


  • #9105
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,032 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    It's happening again. The fury is over, nothing has changed, back to normal, until next time.


  • #9106
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    Yes, and they have the common sense to know better and would not impede on coming police doing their job.


    In fact they are sensible enough like most rational people to not let themselves get in that position.

    There’s a limit to when authority should be blindly bowed to, though. Most people, but not all, will accept what those in power say is the law, but the law can also impose some ridiculous restrictions, eg. A 30 kph speed limit on a main thoroughfare in Dublin; a curfew before sunset; crossing a road outside of a crosswalk; etc. - blind obedience to the law is when power corrupts. If the laws don’t make sense the laws don’t bear adherence or enforcement. If a citizen can’t think critically about whether it is justified to impose an early evening curfew, or a jaywalking rule in a suburb, or to cruise downhill over the speed limit say, where will that citizen be when the President says hell yes it is the law it is perfectly legal to snatch children away from their mother and keep them caged up like animals for months at a time; the citizen won’t be there when an officer says hell yes it was perfectly legal to beat Rodney King 50+ times with a baton; hell yes it’s perfectly legal to smash into a home, no uniforms, cameras, knock, or announcement, to chase after thinly suspected drugs; hell yes it’s perfectly legal to waterboard Gitmo prisoners; hell yes it’s perfectly legal to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back; hell yes it’s perfectly legal to blow a kid away for playing with a toy gun in a playground; hell yes it’s perfectly legal to taser, mace, pepper spray, teargas, baton, etc. non violent protesters; hell yes it’s perfectly legal to choke the life out of someone for selling loose cigarettes; hell yes it’s perfectly legal to inter Japanese Americans.

    TLDR if someone thinks law and order is above reproach and all laws should be obeyed without question then what good are they?


  • #9107
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ollkiller wrote: »
    Is it too hard to ask that a cop can assess what is a threat and what isn't. And it was obvious the 75 old man wasn't a threat. They could have easily walked around him. But no we'll go with the Robocop mentality on a 75 year old. They should be charged just for being that stupid.

    That’s my beef. The officers failed to properly regulate how much force they applied to the situation, and they were the ones to escalate it up from an old man standing in their way. There was no de-escalation. The first officer, if anybody, clearly looked like he might have begun engaging in that, but the guy next to him shoved, the guy behind him forced him forward with a hand on his back (should also be charged, imo) and there was barking from the squad at large that escalated the situation too.


  • #9108
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    It's happening again. The fury is over, nothing has changed, back to normal, until next time.

    No I don’t think so. Still going on, still protests and demonstrations happening places, still have Juneteenth to look forward to next Friday which Trump is expected to insert himself into, in Tulsa the site of a race massacre 99 years ago. legislation is still before congress and open hearings are being held by the chambers. If McConnel tries to block a house bill there will be mass protests in Kentucky. Minnesota Governor just minutes ago announced support for sweeping reforms that the state legislature still needs to take up. The court cases involving george Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmad Arbery, Martin Gugino (the 75-year old man), David McAtee, dead protesters dead officers etc. will continue to play out. This is far from over..


  • #9109
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    A former Bast@rd cops story..

    https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

    I'd really like it more if the cop put name to this.. some of the points raised are the same points raised by the AG of Minnesota in a link I posted last night. It also reads like what has come up with BLM and defund the police, more training for officer's, cops actually being cops and not social workers etc.. The time is now to reform things in the US, hopefully come November, the political will is there the next year or two is to make some fundamental changes and continue to build on it going forward.

    I'm not even half way through this it's looooooong.

    This is the Kelly Thomas situation a few years back, he was hanging out cops roll up and start giving him hassle and get him agitated, the cops beat the fcuking **** out of him..

    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dvB8-8x_y5k/hqdefault.jpg&imgrefurl=https://reason.com/2014/01/13/officers-in-the-beating-death-of-kelly-t/&docid=DR0nszLusNaplM&tbnid=s1SK-9oeFj30jM:&vet=1&source=sh/x/im

    "Equally important to remember: disabled and mentally ill people are frequently killed by police officers not trained to recognize and react to disabilities or mental health crises. Some of the people we picture as “violent offenders” are often people struggling with untreated mental illness, often due to economic hardships. Very frequently, the officers sent to “protect the community” escalate this crisis and ultimately wound or kill the person. Your community was not made safer by police violence; a sick member of your community was killed because it was cheaper than treating them. Are you extremely confident you’ll never get sick one day too?"


  • #9110
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The 13th is a very informative Netflix documentary for those interested. Discusses the historical progress from the abolition of slavery, through Jim Crow and segregation and why this is still a modern problem.

    Even those who disagree with me here will find a lot to engage with, here.


  • #9111
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,227 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    xtal191 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/rickygervais/status/1271122686165516288

    Reminds me of the South Park episode. I broke the dam.


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  • #9112
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,541 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    Mr. Floyd death was reprehensible, disgusting and down right murder. everyone agrees with that. a scumbag cop.


    i asked this previously; getting a fair trial amongst a jury of your peers is pretty cornerstone to US jurisprudence; can that happen with all the media coverage?


  • #9113
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    y0ssar1an22 wrote: »
    Mr. Floyd death was reprehensible, disgusting and down right murder. everyone agrees with that. a scumbag cop.


    i asked this previously; getting a fair trial amongst a jury of your peers is pretty cornerstone to US jurisprudence; can that happen with all the media coverage?

    It'll be like the OJ trial...a mess


  • #9114
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    It'll be like the OJ trial...a mess

    Systemic racism at it most obvious :rolleyes:


  • #9115
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    The head of Chicago’s powerful police union said any cop in the city who takes a knee during George Floyd protests will be booted, according to a report.

    John Catanzara, the new president of the Chicago Fraternal Order of Police, said the gesture, seen throughout the nation during protests over Floyd’s death in police custody in Minneapolis, is tantamount to betrayal of the uniform, he told Fox32 Chicago.

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/11/chicago-police-union-boss-says-hell-boot-cops-who-kneel/


  • #9116
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    biko wrote: »
    The head of Chicago’s powerful police union said any cop in the city who takes a knee during George Floyd protests will be booted, according to a report.

    John Catanzara, the new president of the Chicago Fraternal Order of Police, said the gesture, seen throughout the nation during protests over Floyd’s death in police custody in Minneapolis, is tantamount to betrayal of the uniform, he told Fox32 Chicago.

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/11/chicago-police-union-boss-says-hell-boot-cops-who-kneel/

    I see political correctness gone mad written a lot. Well here it is. Any cop will be vilified by the people meant to stand up for them if they express a political opinion peacefully.

    Now we have the police saying they will punish those their own for peaceful protest. What message do people think this screams out to black people in the US?


  • #9117
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,139 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Christy42 wrote: »
    I see political correctness gone mad written a lot. Well here it is. Any cop will be vilified by the people meant to stand up for them if they express a political opinion peacefully.

    Now we have the police saying they will punish those their own for peaceful protest. What message do people think this screams out to black people in the US?

    They are there to do their jobs, which is to restore law and order, not kneel with those who are disrespecting law and order. They are to be above this. It is not right that they act this way during their policing duties. It's absurd. Whatever they feel in private is their business.


  • #9118
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    biko wrote: »
    The head of Chicago’s powerful police union said any cop in the city who takes a knee during George Floyd protests will be booted, according to a report.

    John Catanzara, the new president of the Chicago Fraternal Order of Police, said the gesture, seen throughout the nation during protests over Floyd’s death in police custody in Minneapolis, is tantamount to betrayal of the uniform, he told Fox32 Chicago.

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/11/chicago-police-union-boss-says-hell-boot-cops-who-kneel/

    I wouldn't have much problem with this if the police unions were apolitical, but they're not. That is a big problem in the US


  • #9119
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    walshb wrote: »
    They are there to do their jobs, which is to restore law and order, not kneel with those who are disrespecting law and order. They are to be above this. It is not right that they act this way during their policing duties. It's absurd. Whatever they feel in private is their business.

    they have the same right to peaceful protest as everybody else


  • #9120
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    walshb wrote: »
    They are there to do their jobs, which is to restore law and order, not kneel with those who are disrespecting law and order. They are to be above this. It is not right that they act this way during their policing duties. It's absurd. Whatever they feel in private is their business.

    Yes kneeling peacefully is disrespecting law and order. How the hell does it make the slightest difference to law and order. It isn't looting. It isn't rioting. It isn't breaking the law. It isn't breaking order. Yeah if you are actively doing something do your job. Outside of that I see no issue with political expression.

    People try and shut down peaceful protest and then wonder why things go violent.

    This has nothing to do with law and order and you know it. This is the police setting up us and them lines instead of listening to the community.


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  • #9121
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    walshb wrote: »
    They are there to do their jobs, which is to restore law and order, not kneel with those who are disrespecting law and order. They are to be above this. It is not right that they act this way during their policing duties. It's absurd. Whatever they feel in private is their business.

    Yes, because God forbid any police officer has the temerity to think that showing solidarity with the community they are policing is any way to maintain law and order. History has shown that the only effective way to police a community is oppression - works 100% of the time so it does. Oh wait...


This discussion has been closed.
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